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chillguy1992
Post #91
Friday August 30, 2013 8:43pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 447
Original post from Lykou11601

To get back on topic, I think Deuce should sit and come on as a sub in the second half. With LD back on the team, Fabian and Jozy would be best served with LD in the center attacking mid position. Sometimes Fabian doesn't get the ball enough because our creativity is supposed to be coming from Demps who hasn't supplied much. I know Dempsey will start. Just saying what would be best for the team.


I think it depends if dempsey is fully up to fitness or not if he is not then this makes sense. However if he is healthy you have to start him dude is still our top scorer in qualifying and more space for altidore is created with dempsey on the pitch. I would much rather have zusi on the bench for the costa rica game then have dempsey start on the bench. Also people forget dempsey draws a lot of fouls which create a lot of free kick opportunties. With the costa rica game you might not have many chances created so it helps if he can create free kick opportunties from nothing. I think donovan fabian dempsey and altidore should be the four on the field. I think with dempsey and donovan you could have donovan cut inside or dempsey move out wide. Truth is altidore also likes to cut to the wing so mabye when he cuts to the wing donovan cuts inside with dempsey as main striker. Lineup with johnson, dempsey, donovan, and altidore can create a lot of chances im sure klinsmann could find a way to make it work.

Lykou11601
Post #92
Friday August 30, 2013 9:03pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 122
Dempsey draws cheap fouls if were being honest haha. I personally think AJ could be used to good effect in place of Dempsey. Really this is all based on the discouraging performances from Dempsey of late. I know he'll get back to his usual self soon but I really would like to see Fabian, LD, Deuce, AJ, and jozy on the field at the same time. Amazing attack right there. Only way that could happen is if we move fabian to LB (which I'm all for).

navi8132
Post #93
Friday August 30, 2013 11:09pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,952
The issue is we may soon to be transforming into a quick attacking team. Fabian Johnson is fast and plays forward fast, Donovan as well. Jozy is quick and good on the counter. Aron Johanssen has PACE. This style would not fit well with Dempsey. Somehow Dempsey has to at least not slow down a counter attack and simply work around it (don't get involved in the actual counter, instead lurk around waiting to make late run in box).

dolcem
Post #94
Sunday September 1, 2013 7:12pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
Original post from MSantoine

Moneyball can definitely be used in soccer. The main thought behind moneyball isnt analyzing just any statistics but finding those undervalued. In baseball they figured out average contracts for things like home runs, rbis, batting average, and noticed players with high on base percentage were cheaper than high batting average people. Or a guy with 50 doubles and 15 homers was cheaper than a guy with 30 homers and 10 doubles. They found the stats that could translate to scoring more runs (again, more players on base more runs, advanced defensive metrics means less runs) and more runs in theory means more wins.

Bringing it to soccer you dont look at goals and assists. You look at things like pass percentage in offensive third, tackle success rate, etc. Those are the stats that you use (if your a stathead) to compare and determine a "better player" (really a better value is what your looking for).


Even then I don't think it works. All of those stats depend so heavily on the players around a particular player and the system he's working in that it's very hard to evaluate his performance. If you look at those stats websites you see some mediocre players with excellent stats and great players with not-so-good stats. Maybe some day we can use stats to effectively evaluate players but at this point they are trivial (and this is why journalists and coaches hardly use them). We'll see if the guys at Liverpool figure it out.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT LINEUP YOU USE IN FIFA
Red
NY
Post #95
Tuesday September 3, 2013 4:21am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 417
USMNT coach Jürgen Klinsmann says he expects forward Jozy Altidore (hamstring) to play on Friday in Costa Rica.

John Goodmans twitter. Miami sport reporter.

rjw77
Post #96
Tuesday September 3, 2013 4:36am

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 265
Great news.

recycledhumans
DFWTX
Post #97
Tuesday September 3, 2013 2:21pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,153
Original post from dolcem

Even then I don't think it works. All of those stats depend so heavily on the players around a particular player and the system he's working in that it's very hard to evaluate his performance. If you look at those stats websites you see some mediocre players with excellent stats and great players with not-so-good stats. Maybe some day we can use stats to effectively evaluate players but at this point they are trivial (and this is why journalists and coaches hardly use them). We'll see if the guys at Liverpool figure it out.


I'm with MSantione, isolating those stats isn't impossible. The issue is finding those "target" stats that will be used for your baseline criteria. The reason it was "so easy" for the A's to make it happen is because people/teams keep those seriously meticulous and esoteric stats that can be used in place of the more traditional stats. In soccer, you'd judge things like disciplinary record, pass completion percentage, shot/goal ratio, etc. It won't be as easy to judge things that are unique to soccer versus baseball, like positional awareness, field vision, communication/leadership ability, etc. For those reasons, I can see where dolcem is coming from. I think with the advent of the new tracking systems that are starting to be used by higher echelon teams, we'll be able to quantify a lot more stuff and use ratios more than just traditional stats, like a ratio between the average distance traveled in a match versus the average minutes played, number of headers won vs. headers attempted, etc.

It would be a more daunting task than it would be in baseball, but I do think it is possible.

richieJkulesaNY
Post #98
Tuesday September 3, 2013 3:33pm

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 945
Personally, I think "chances created" is a great stat to go by, for offensive players, at least.

In baseball, specifically with the A's, it was all about On Base Percentage, which is basically creating chances to score.

Now i'm not one to look at stats when evaluating players, so I dont know what determines a "chance created.". What I do know, though, is that Ozil has been one of the top players in that category, and before I knew that, I rated him as a top 3 midiflder in the game.

recycledhumans
DFWTX
Post #99
Tuesday September 3, 2013 4:00pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,153
I believe, but don't quote me, that a chance created is defined as a shot or a pass that results in a shot, not sure if there's a chain of claim-ability on something like that, for example if you cut inside on the wing and pass it to someone at the top of the box that one-touch rolls it to someone else for the shot, whether or not both passers get the tally mark in the chances created category, as it would be with multiple assists on a single goal in hockey.

As i mentioned before, the "unquantifiables" are the real issue with the Moneyball scenario...if a CDM makes one pass just over the halfway line then makes a 40 yard run into the box that opens up space for someone else to finish off the move with a shot, can you chalk that up in any stat category? I think that's why scouting is much more important in soccer than in baseball (once you reach the professional level), because things like that go unnoticed by stats sheets but someone with a keen soccer mind could see how valuable a player like that could be.

Goes back to the ratios I was talking about...if that same CDM had a higher average distance traveled per minute played than anyone else on that squad, you'd be able to tell right off the bat that he's an engine-type player that puts in a lot of work solely by virtue of covering that much ground.

Jod
Copenhagen
Post #100
Tuesday September 3, 2013 4:14pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 32
Original post from Lykou11601

Dempsey draws cheap fouls if were being honest haha. I personally think AJ could be used to good effect in place of Dempsey. Really this is all based on the discouraging performances from Dempsey of late. I know he'll get back to his usual self soon but I really would like to see Fabian, LD, Deuce, AJ, and jozy on the field at the same time. Amazing attack right there. Only way that could happen is if we move fabian to LB (which I'm all for).


you assume 2 c-mids.
How about a 433 with Dempsey, Jozy and Aron as the fwds. Fabian and Landon flank Bradley?

Would be my choice if playing FIFA, although Klinsi probably wants Jones in there.

platter
Jacksonville, FL
Post #101
Tuesday September 3, 2013 4:39pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 87
Original post from dolcem

Even then I don't think it works. All of those stats depend so heavily on the players around a particular player and the system he's working in that it's very hard to evaluate his performance. If you look at those stats websites you see some mediocre players with excellent stats and great players with not-so-good stats. Maybe some day we can use stats to effectively evaluate players but at this point they are trivial (and this is why journalists and coaches hardly use them). We'll see if the guys at Liverpool figure it out.


There are measurable statistics that can help, like speed, quickness reacting to balls, accuracy of passes, shot speed, etc. It takes advanced technology to measure this data, but the tech already exists. It's definitely more complicated and will never yield the kind of accurate assessment you can garner in some sports, but it can be a useful tool that will improve with over time.

logicoverall
Post #102
Tuesday September 3, 2013 5:14pm

Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts: 212
http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/09...

dolcem
Post #103
Tuesday September 3, 2013 6:47pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
Original post from logicoverall

http://www.mlssoccer.com/news/article/2013/09...


Great news.

I want to rest him (or maybe bring him on as a sub) against Costa Rica so he doesn't reaggravate it. EJ can get it done against CONCACAF opponents. Stick with the 4-2-3-1. We want our best team against Mexico.

Absolutely can't wait for that game...this is the US playing as well as we ever have against a Mexico team that hasn't been this out of form in a long while. In Columbus. This has the chance to be our first really big win against Mexico (three goals, maybe)...I think it'll be a close one (Mexico has its backs to the wall) but it could happen.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT LINEUP YOU USE IN FIFA
navi8132
Post #104
Tuesday September 3, 2013 7:05pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,952
EJ can't start a game. This is Iceman's time to shine.

EKneezy
Post #105
Tuesday September 3, 2013 7:20pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,860
If Jozy is healthy, he should start. Why get cleared by doctors to not play?

On another note, the US could officially clinch a spot in Brazil if the following happened on Friday.

1. US wins in CR- they won in Jamaica, they can win in CR

2. Mexico ties Honduras at Azteca- plausible especially with the way Mexico has fared in their past qualifiers at home

3. Panama loses or ties at home vs Jamaica- this is the least likeliest IMO. Jamaica has been pretty much eliminated and Panama were just runners up at the Gold Cup

These all could happen.

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