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rainORshine
Post #76
Saturday September 7, 2013 3:01pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,773
Original post from rainORshine

so over the last few days it seems the consensus regarding cameron is that we need him at RB (where he plays for club). at this very moment i would say that cameron is, in fact, the #1 RB option...

- seems like most people think he will start RB on friday.
- if it goes ok he will start RB v mexico
- if that goes well seems like he would be firmly established as an RB for USMNT

so we must modify our CM depth chart. beyond bradley and jones

3) beckerman
4) diskerud

wow, that is not terribly impressive. i think those 2 can get a job done v CONCACAF opposition, but i would not be super confident against some of the better WC-caliber teams.

well i hope they both get some minutes in these upcoming games so they can prove they belong


OK. so we were all wrong about needing cameron at RB. clearly we had things covered with orozco. those of you who adeptly pointed out that RB was covered with orozco - kudos, you nailed it!

my problem with cameron as a CM:
umm, he is not a CM. played come CM in MLS about 3 years ago. that does not qualify you to play CM for USMNT.

i realize cameron is a jack-of-all-traits and can play a bunch of positions pretty well. but he is an RB for more than a year now and we need an RB

and jones continues to impress!!

JKs CM depth
1) bradley
2) jones
3) cameron
4) beckerman/diskerud (we will find out next week)

best US CMs
1) bradley
2) kljestan
3) jones
4) beckerman
5) diskerud

this team could really use a healthy mo edu, quite frankly - would jump into that #4 spot

snipes87
Cleveland, Ohio
Post #77
Saturday September 7, 2013 3:41pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 274
Original post from rainORshine

best US CMs
1) bradley
2) kljestan
3) jones
4) beckerman
5) diskerud

this team could really use a healthy mo edu, quite frankly - would jump into that #4 spot


Kljestan is not better than Jones by any stretch of the imagination. Agree on Edu
If you don't love it, leave it, USA #1
rainORshine
Post #78
Saturday September 7, 2013 4:12pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,773
Original post from snipes87

Kljestan is not better than Jones by any stretch of the imagination. Agree on Edu


well, we really have no idea what kljestan can do in USMNT shirt. 1 start in 2 years under JK. so im using my imagination

what can not really be argued is that overall j jones is completely average for USMNT

overall resume, sure, the nod goes to jones

i think it is reasonable to argue that, given the opportunity, right now kljestan would produce better results in a MNT jersey than j jones.

either way, kljestan is no worse than #3 on the list

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #79
Saturday September 7, 2013 4:21pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 996
Kljestan and Beckerman would look good in my opinion. Perhaps mixx. Jones doesn't do a thing for me.

aaron
Post #80
Saturday September 7, 2013 7:17pm

Joined Sep 2013
Total Posts: 14
I think looking at the CM position for the U.S. must account for distinctions of what type of CM role we need the player to fill.

It's obvious, and everyone has been saying it for sometime now, that Bradley is the glue of this team, and that the U.S. is simply going to be lost without him. This was evident against Costa Rica. Bradley plays the most significant CM role for the team, in which everything we do is intended to go through him.

And when Jermaine Jones plays a supporting CM role with Bradley, mainly as a defensive holding midfielder, I think he often fills this role quite well as Bradley's accomplice (though he clearly makes some major mistakes at times). Jones is one of the few players who is able to fill a supporting role and cover the field alongside Bradley. Also, consider that his accuracy with long balls in space is something to be valued.

Trying to evaluate Jones play based on his against Costa Rica as he attempted to fill the role of Bradley is not entirely fair. Jones is a good supporting CM, good holding defensive midfielder, but is not as strong going forward, and that has not typically been his intended role with the U.S. Klinsmann started two defensive midfielders, probably hoping that this would bolster the defensive holes that clearly need substantial work. Klinsmann assumed that since Bradley went down, the best option was to stack the defense and hope for some creativity up top with the talents of guys lie Dempsey and Donovan. It wasn't a bad plan, but clearly it backfired, as the U.S. went down 2-0.

The point, however, is that when evaluating the CM's, I think it is helpful to distinguish between the two main roles that they might play in Klinsmann's style. According to this, Jones is not really a substitute for Bradley. Here's how I'd break down the groups:

Offensive CM's
1. Bradley
2. Klejstan
3. Diskerud

Defensive CM's
1. Jones
2. Beckerman
3. Cameron

I agree with some of you that Cameron really is not up to the challenge of this role. It is possible that given time and opportunity, he could grow into it, but it is risky to ask him to step into such a vital position that he has not played in awhile.

Looking forward to the Mexico match, if Klinsmann does not call in Klejstan, then it looks to be Diskerud starting alongside Jones. Diskerud is creative going forward (though I am not sure he can handle the game speed yet of international play), and Jones cannot operate in this regard by himself. He needs to play second fiddle.

blaise213
San Francisco CA
Post #81
Saturday September 7, 2013 7:27pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,347
Ill bet if gedion zelalem was an American citizen, he would be in the starting XI (replacing jones)

rainORshine
Post #82
Saturday September 7, 2013 7:45pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,773
another interesting point regarding cameron and jones (and gonzo)

US has had 4 really poor performances this year:
- honduras WCQ
- belgium
- 1st half in bosnia
- costa rica

1 guy has been singled out for having a relatively poor game in ALL 4 games...
geoff cameron - twice as CB (hon, bos), once as an RB (belgium), once as a CM (CR)

the guy gets a lot of props for being able to play a lot of positions, but at this level you just NEED TO PLAY ONE REALLY WELL. if he sticks at RB, he MIGHT be able to master that. needs to be shelved at CB and CM

only 2 other guys have had particularly poor games in multiple games (of those 4 games):
one is JONES - last 2 games (bosnia and CR) were bad but was also on the field for the other 2 games

the other is GONZO - was very poor against honduras and belgium. we was not terrible against CR, but certainly was not part of the solution either

jones and gonzo on high alert status on tuesday

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #83
Saturday September 7, 2013 10:52pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 5,019
I agree that Jones should not be an unquestioned partner with Bradley. But we all like Bradley's attacking abilities so that rules out Diskerud as a potential partner, and Kljestan may not have the defensive chops to suit Bradley's style either. So that leaves a possible return of Danny Williams and or Maurice Edu in the future to partner Bradley. I think if Edu can get back to playing he may be the most logical choice to partner Bradley in the WC.

rainORshine
Post #84
Saturday September 7, 2013 11:19pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,773
finding the right partner for MB in a 4-4-2 is not the ONLY possibility

yes, we have seen a 4-3-3 but one thing we have not seen is jones playing a 6 and bradley partnered with the likes of kljestan or diskerud in an "inverted triangle"

for instance:

--bradley--kljestan--
-----jones-----

guys like edu, beckerman and williams also candidates for the 6 role

offensively, drop the 6 onto the back line - allowing OBs to provide primary width, while guys like LD, dempsey and AJ (pick 2) support attack behind jozy - free attacking roles that i think all 3 could thrive on

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #85
Saturday September 7, 2013 11:52pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 5,019
All 3 of those guys would get in eachothers way. We have tried these formations before with not very much success.

Essentially you want a 4-3-2-1 with zero width. Can't say I like that idea.

rainORshine
Post #86
Saturday September 7, 2013 11:57pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,773
like i said, as soon as US wins the ball, the 6 drops in between the CBs - gets out of the way / offensively functions as an extra CB. problem solved. also that allows OBs to push forward. as soon as lose ball 6 steps into midfield - which also negates almost any counter-attack

---LCB--jones--RCB---

admsghs27
Post #87
Sunday September 8, 2013 2:40am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,154
Klissman will stick with a 4-2-3-1......

rainORshine
Post #88
Wednesday September 11, 2013 11:46pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,773
so after the mexico game i would have to believe that beckerman has pulled into the #3 CM position.

if WC were next week we would see a beckerman / jones CM combo in the first game.

my guess is that we would lose that game and JK would then try something else.

but what would he try? i have no idea

hopefully MB out in october will help answer this question

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #89
Wednesday September 11, 2013 11:52pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 996
Is kljestan a creative midfielder? I haven't seen him play much so I don't know.

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #90
Wednesday September 11, 2013 11:53pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 996
And I don't meant that in the sense of the role of creative midfield but is he creative... As a midfielder.

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