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Dam
Chandler, AZ
Post #241
Thursday November 7, 2013 2:01am

Joined Aug 2013
Total Posts: 40
Original post from rainORshine

i agree that clark is a long shot

but ill say this: when kyle beckerman is one of your top 4 CM options (and he is for JK) i think you need to keep your options open

at 30, clark appears to possibly be having his best season... something KB did in 2011 (at 29) - which directly lead to his opportunity with JK.

we have seen KB get torched for speed at times against CONCACAF. that does not bode well for brazil. with his physical limitations i would say KB had a pretty short period at his "peak" - probably between 28 and 30. going on 32 he is approaching being a liability

all i am saying is that his spot should not be set in stone and i think clark is making a decent argument right now (as good as anyone) to be a guy who should have an opportunity to challenge for that spot

basically can make the same argument for brad evans


In 2010 Edu was the better option (Vs. Clark). If he gets a loan dean in January Edu would still be a better option than Clark....and potentially Beckerman. Would even go so far as to say Danny Williams has a better shot at the 2014 WC than Clark.

dolcem
Post #242
Thursday November 7, 2013 2:18am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
First of all, if Kljestan has always been this good and is not particularly 'in form,' than why has he never done anything with the NT?

Second, this Clark vs. Beckerman argument is absolutely ridiculous.

No one on here is going to seriously argue that one is much better than the other. When it comes to player selection decisions like these, it's up to the coach to decide. Klinsmann went with Beckerman because he's a great leader in the locker room (something that journalists and players have remarked on that we fans don't really know much about) and because he does exactly what he is told and fits the role Klinsmann wants to see from our #6 perfectly. In our system the #6 is supposed to be the link between the defense and the midfield, someone who can pass the ball well and help us maintain possession. We're not looking for an athletic, Clark type of DM who runs around like a chicken with his head cut off, gets carded, and loses possession (and his man, for that matter). We're looking for a good passer who stays in position. Beckerman is actually the exact type of #6 we want, the only thing is he is slow and not quite good enough. He's gotten a lot of looks though because other people tried out as the #6 didn't do so well. He won't be starting in Brazil though so it's not a big deal, and having a leader like him on the bench is probably a good idea.

Anyone can sit there and second-guess any decision made by the coach: should we go with Goodson or Gonzalez? Diskerud or Kljestan? Zusi or EJ? Beckerman or Clark? Guzan or Howard? That doesn't mean that this person is an expert and that we have to fire the coach for not agreeing with him. We all have our own line-ups and it's great to talk about them, but when people start pretending like they're experts and that the coach doesn't know what he's doing because they disagree with a couple of these selections, it gets a little ridiculous. Any NT coach has made lots of questionable decisions because the nature of roster selections is that you have to decide between a lot of players on the bubble who are relatively equal in ability to each other. The difference is though that in any other country the fans understand this and evaluate coaches (for the most part) on the results and technical direction of the team. They don't sit there and whine about every little player selection they disagree with and act like they should be the coach.

How much of this is about genuinely wanting Rico Clark to go to Brazil and how much of this is just looking for things to criticize JK for?
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT LINEUP YOU USE IN FIFA
dfw_fan
DfW
Post #243
Thursday November 7, 2013 2:46am

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 433
Dolcem: I didnt want to quote your last message, but, you NAILED it...
Thank you ...

dstones77
Hagerstown, MD
Post #244
Thursday November 7, 2013 2:05pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 216
I swear to Fing god if Ricardo Clark gets called up I'm done. Does no one remember he was the sole reason we did not advance in the knockout rounds of the last WC???? He has none business on this team. Whatsoever. None. I'd rather play a U20 kid or fringe U23 kid. This is ridiculous.

That being said I'm glad to see he's back in form as an average player coming up big for Houston, but NT consideration you're smoking crack

rainORshine
Post #245
Thursday November 7, 2013 3:19pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,783
Original post from Dam

In 2010 Edu was the better option (Vs. Clark). If he gets a loan dean in January Edu would still be a better option than Clark....and potentially Beckerman. Would even go so far as to say Danny Williams has a better shot at the 2014 WC than Clark.


completely agree about edu and williams. but neither has played in a while so its time to move farther down the list.... clark and evans

rainORshine
Post #246
Thursday November 7, 2013 3:24pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,783
Original post from dstones77

I swear to Fing god if Ricardo Clark gets called up I'm done. Does no one remember he was the sole reason we did not advance in the knockout rounds of the last WC???? He has none business on this team. Whatsoever. None. I'd rather play a U20 kid or fringe U23 kid. This is ridiculous.

That being said I'm glad to see he's back in form as an average player coming up big for Houston, but NT consideration you're smoking crack


most people would agree that there is very little between clark and beckerman. you would really prefer to have beckerman come on to help close out a game than clark?

ok. ill take clark. should not be too controversial

the sole reason we lost to ghana was BB did not make good decisions about his line-up - including starting rico clark

dstones77
Hagerstown, MD
Post #247
Thursday November 7, 2013 6:12pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 216
Original post from rainORshine

most people would agree that there is very little between clark and beckerman. you would really prefer to have beckerman come on to help close out a game than clark?

ok. ill take clark. should not be too controversial

the sole reason we lost to ghana was BB did not make good decisions about his line-up - including starting rico clark


I'd prefer neither.. but yeah Beckerman over Clark. You're right he should never have started that match, but he has to saddle up he was terrible all tournament. I'm just saying he scores a few goals and leads Houston through the playoffs and now hes a borderline starter on the NT.. really..

richieJkulesaNY
Post #248
Thursday November 7, 2013 6:23pm

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 951
Where did all this Ricardo Clark talk come from? Did I miss something?

I watched the Red Bulls/Dynamo game last night and not a single Dynamo player should even be getting a sniff from Klinsmann.

And Rain, it was Bradleys fault that Clark played awful against Ghana? Im not quite sure I get your logic. Pretty sure Clark played an awful game because he is an awful player.

blaise213
San Francisco CA
Post #249
Thursday November 7, 2013 6:48pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,372
This has to be the longest running thread!

Ricardo clark sucks...

During the 2010 WC vs Ghana, I would've went with:

Gomez > altidore
Buddle > findley
Feilhaber > Clark

Loche Achles
Post #250
Thursday November 7, 2013 6:53pm

Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts: 270
No Clark is a recent addition for Rain. He is the Rain to Sacha's Shine.

I'll just leave the team selections up to the manager...

rainORshine
Post #251
Thursday November 7, 2013 7:55pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,783
Original post from richieJkulesaNY

Where did all this Ricardo Clark talk come from? Did I miss something?

I watched the Red Bulls/Dynamo game last night and not a single Dynamo player should even be getting a sniff from Klinsmann.

And Rain, it was Bradleys fault that Clark played awful against Ghana? Im not quite sure I get your logic. Pretty sure Clark played an awful game because he is an awful player.


obviously you did not watch RSL last week

edu over clark was a pretty strait forward selection. BB failed to make the right choice. so yea, BBs fault for me. i dont get your logic. play an inferior player but expect positive results? please explain

clark is an awful player? beckerman is superior? based on...?

and clearly davis is getting sniffs from JK. so you feel JK is making poor decisions, correct?

rainORshine
Post #252
Thursday November 7, 2013 8:19pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,783
Original post from Loche Achles

No Clark is a recent addition for Rain. He is the Rain to Sacha's Shine.

I'll just leave the team selections up to the manager...


loche - yes, JKs decisions are final, but would love your opinion...

1) should kyle beckerman be an unquestioned selection for USMNT?
1) is rico clark an awful soccer player?
2) is it outrageous to include rico clark in a conversation about players who could possibly offer something at CM for USMNT?

rainORshine
Post #253
Saturday November 9, 2013 9:00pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,783
nice to see jones go 90... and actually help schalke win

how nice would it be to see best players in best positions...

----------altidore-----------
--donovan------------******--
------kljestan---bradley-------
-----------jones------------
fabian------X---X------chandler

lot of good options for the other attacking position:
- johannsson
- agudelo
- rowe
- zusi
- dempsey

honestly think agudelo may be the best candidate in this set-up. stoke transfer may turn in to a disaster - have a hard time seeing him jumping strait into the line-up

kljestan and bradley both play in this type of set-up at club

rainORshine
Post #254
Saturday November 16, 2013 2:51pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,783
alright, so i kind of geeked out on the scotland game - bradley, jones, kljestan all start and diskerud subs for jones - a lot of good comparisons to make side by side

what i did was track (as best i could) ALL passes that each player made... since NONE ever (really) try to beat players off the dribble, tracking that is pointless.

i broke the passes into 3 categories:
- simple touch back OR sideways
- simple balls in a forward direction
- more adventurous balls in a positive direction - basically balls played over 20 yards (and generally through the air)

keep in mind:
- MB played 90 mins
- JJ/SK played 60 mins
- players in advanced positions (SK) have fewer forward options (especially when you have EJ and bedoya on wings) and generally get fewer touches
- MD played 30 mins

results: (completions/incompletions)

back/sideways: MB - 47/2; JJ - 31/1; SK - 24/0; MD - 8/0

simple forward: MB - 19/1; JJ - 7/2; SK - 8/0; MD - 6/2
'big' forward: MB - 5/2; JJ - 5/5; SK - 3/1; MD - 0/2

total forward passes completed:
MB - 24 of 27 = 89%
JJ - 12 of 19 = 63%
SK - 11 of 12 = 92%
MD - 6 of 10 = 60%

so i lied when i said sacha completed 100%. actually was 35 of 36 total, or 97%
following a defensive corner the ball fell to SK and he attempted to play a long ball ahead to jones who had initially sprinted forward, but checked his run essentially as SK was playing the ball

not really trying to make any concrete point with this, just think its kind of interesting comparisons

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #255
Saturday November 16, 2013 4:01pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 5,135
Kljestan had two passes in the attacking third. Two.

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