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admsghs27
Post #76
Thursday October 3, 2013 9:23pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,162
Cherundolo if or when healthy and getting playing time will no doubt be our #1 choice at RB... He is still our best option..

Lykou11601
Post #77
Friday October 4, 2013 12:50am

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 122
Original post from rainORshine

cameron's athleticism allows him to shine in central areas v CONCACAF opposition. against higher caliber opposition his speed of thought, positioning, soccer IQ and general football savvy is not strong at all.

US has played 4 poor games this year
- @ honduras (CB)
- v belgium (RB)
- 1st half @ bosnia (CB)
- @ costa rica (CM)

geoff cameron was singled out as being particularly poor in each of those games. there is a reason cameron plays RB for stoke. it is the position that matches his capability at the highest level.

now that he is settled at RB cameron is possibly a decent option at that position. he is WAY over-rated both as a CB and a CM

people are absolutely fooling themselves if they think cameron can walk into USMNT in june after playing RB all season at stoke and be a good option in the center of the field. that is fantasy


The only game where I'll concede Cameron played poorly, and it was his own fault, is at honduras. The whole team played like shit that day. Belgium he was okay with the lone goal. He played great in Bosnia. Both the goals were reviewed and Cameron wasn't really to blame for either of them. And Costa Rica he had to play away in CONCACAF, without MB90, and with virtually no warm up. Cameron is doing fine

admsghs27
Post #78
Friday October 4, 2013 5:28am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,162
Is amazing an epl regular starter might not be playing much in Brazil that's how deep usa is with talent...

recycledhumans
DFWTX
Post #79
Friday October 4, 2013 1:39pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,153
Original post from admsghs27

Is amazing an epl regular starter might not be playing much in Brazil that's how deep usa is with talent...


He will start...if it's not at RB it'll be at CB. He's better and more consistent than most that we have. If Dolo is ready to go then he'll be pairing Goodson or Brooks, no need to split up the Besler/Gonzo pairing.

rainORshine
Post #80
Friday October 4, 2013 1:44pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,773
Original post from Lykou11601

The only game where I'll concede Cameron played poorly, and it was his own fault, is at honduras. The whole team played like shit that day. Belgium he was okay with the lone goal. He played great in Bosnia. Both the goals were reviewed and Cameron wasn't really to blame for either of them. And Costa Rica he had to play away in CONCACAF, without MB90, and with virtually no warm up. Cameron is doing fine


he was generally rated as one of the poorer performers (worst 3 or 4) - by different folks who do player ratings - relative to his teammates.

i was not giving an opinion, i was sharing evaluations that others made.

if you wanted to make a stronger case you would have to pull up player rating from a given game and explain why you think he was better than guys that received better reviews

this is for bosnia, i could do the same for the other 2 games

ASN - only jones and EJ with worse ratings
Geoff Cameron: Center back is Cameron's third-best position, as he showed on Wednesday against Bosnia. The tall, speedy Stoke City player can move well at right back and he has the ball-control skills to play midfield too. But he was at fault on the second Bosnia goal and didn't look particularly comfortable throughout the contest. Rating: 5

washington post - no one with a worse rating
Cameron: 3.5. All in all, a good night for Matt Besler and Omar Gonzalez.

ny times - worst grade was 4.5
Geoff Cameron It remains to be seen how Cameron will fit into the team. He is a good player and had a strong first season in the Premier League with Stoke City. His versatility, however, is hurting him. His best position is in central defense, but Stoke City plays him as a right back. In World Cup qualifying this year, Klinsmann used Cameron as a defensive midfielder. Against Bosnia, he had the rare chance to play central defense, and the rust was evident. He was beaten on Vedad Ibisevic's goal and generally looked out of sync. He improved in the second half, and that is to his credit as Bosnia is a good attacking team. Rating: 5

soccer by ives - he received the worst grade
GEOFF CAMERON (4)
A disappointing performance for the versatile Cameron, who was beaten by Vedad Ibisevic on Bosnia's second goal. Granted, Cameron was playing a position that he rarely plays these days and with a centerback partner that he met a couple days prior to Wednesday's match.

espn - cameron received the worst grade
D Geoff Cameron, 4 - Similar to the friendly against Belgium last May, was slow to recover after an initial Howard save, and was cleanly beaten by Ibisivec on the second. Recovered a bit in the second half.

MSantoine
Post #81
Friday October 4, 2013 2:44pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,186
Original post from rainORshine

he was generally rated as one of the poorer performers (worst 3 or 4) - by different folks who do player ratings - relative to his teammates.

i was not giving an opinion, i was sharing evaluations that others made.

if you wanted to make a stronger case you would have to pull up player rating from a given game and explain why you think he was better than guys that received better reviews

this is for bosnia, i could do the same for the other 2 games

ASN - only jones and EJ with worse ratings
Geoff Cameron: Center back is Cameron's third-best position, as he showed on Wednesday against Bosnia. The tall, speedy Stoke City player can move well at right back and he has the ball-control skills to play midfield too. But he was at fault on the second Bosnia goal and didn't look particularly comfortable throughout the contest. Rating: 5

washington post - no one with a worse rating
Cameron: 3.5. All in all, a good night for Matt Besler and Omar Gonzalez.

ny times - worst grade was 4.5
Geoff Cameron It remains to be seen how Cameron will fit into the team. He is a good player and had a strong first season in the Premier League with Stoke City. His versatility, however, is hurting him. His best position is in central defense, but Stoke City plays him as a right back. In World Cup qualifying this year, Klinsmann used Cameron as a defensive midfielder. Against Bosnia, he had the rare chance to play central defense, and the rust was evident. He was beaten on Vedad Ibisevic's goal and generally looked out of sync. He improved in the second half, and that is to his credit as Bosnia is a good attacking team. Rating: 5

soccer by ives - he received the worst grade
GEOFF CAMERON (4)
A disappointing performance for the versatile Cameron, who was beaten by Vedad Ibisevic on Bosnia's second goal. Granted, Cameron was playing a position that he rarely plays these days and with a centerback partner that he met a couple days prior to Wednesday's match.

espn - cameron received the worst grade
D Geoff Cameron, 4 - Similar to the friendly against Belgium last May, was slow to recover after an initial Howard save, and was cleanly beaten by Ibisivec on the second. Recovered a bit in the second half.


You cant use website ratings as proof. They are written with the agenda of getting hits and page shares. Castrol index (unbiased) had Cameron better than Howard, Evans, and Jones as starters and better than Mix (played 1 half). Against CR he was still better than Besler and Zusi. His last game before that he was our best defender on the field. Every game he's been better than at least 1 defensemen, and in several games he's been our best, or 2nd best of the 4. He's not the problem

rainORshine
Post #82
Friday October 4, 2013 2:56pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,773
Original post from MSantoine

You cant use website ratings as proof. They are written with the agenda of getting hits and page shares. Castrol index (unbiased) had Cameron better than Howard, Evans, and Jones as starters and better than Mix (played 1 half). Against CR he was still better than Besler and Zusi. His last game before that he was our best defender on the field. Every game he's been better than at least 1 defensemen, and in several games he's been our best, or 2nd best of the 4. He's not the problem


i was not using them as "proof" of anything. i said he was identified by folks wou follow closely and rate players as one of the worst in those 4 games. castrol in not "proof" of anything either. it is 1 or more people offering their opinion. no different than any other rating.

anyway, sounds like like castrol concurs with the idea that cameron was one of the poorer performers (worst 3 or 4) in US 4 worst games this year

rainORshine
Post #83
Friday October 4, 2013 3:27pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,773
castrol is a pretty poor tool - especially in friendlies - because you accumulate points through game. it should give a per minute rating to be valuable

anyway based on castrol, compared to other players who played 90 minutes:
- honduras - only one player worse that cameron (chandler)
- bosnia - cameron the worst field player
- costa rica - only one player worse (besler)

cameron had a good score v belgium - he scored a goal

look at ANY subjective (people actually using there brain) review of belgium game and you find that cameron was 1 of the worst 3 or 4 on the day (if not worse)

espn - 4
asn - 4
sbi - 4.5
si - 4.5

and those were grades even though he scored.

that was the last game cameron played at RB

the biggest fantasy in US soccer have moved from stuart holden as a savior in CM to geoff cameron being someone who can excel at any position on the field at an high international level (like the WC)

cameron is possibly a decent option at RB. poor option at CB or CM. there is absolutely NO GOOD evidence that geoff cameron can play CM at a high level. sorry 1 game home against lightweight panama is not evidence

2 games at CB this year... 2 terrible performances

un-(freaking)-believable how people can make up stories in their head that defy any logical evidence

but, yea, sure cameron is amazing and can play CM or CB better than guys who actually do that professionally every day of their lives

rainORshine
Post #84
Friday October 4, 2013 3:53pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,773
Original post from rainORshine

i was not using them as "proof" of anything. i said he was identified by folks wou follow closely and rate players as one of the worst in those 4 games. castrol in not "proof" of anything either. it is 1 or more people offering their opinion. no different than any other rating.

anyway, sounds like like castrol concurs with the idea that cameron was one of the poorer performers (worst 3 or 4) in US 4 worst games this year


just to clarify - i realize castrol is an "objective system" of evaluating performances.
but to begin with you have people trying to quantify every aspect of the game - basically SUBJECTIVELY assign points to every touch of the ball.

it is a fun tool, but certainly some massive imperfections and ultimately no better than looking at the consensus opinion of several reputable sources.

adding castol index to several assessments certainly gives you a pretty good idea of how a player performed in a given game

Lykou11601
Post #85
Wednesday October 9, 2013 9:16pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 122
Forgot who's post I read, but someone said that any lineup for the US will have holes. We all know this probably wont change come WC, but lets see if we can try and find a way. I realize we all have favorites but if we do some thinking maybe we'll find something new. This will be difficult since there are so many question marks like if Chandler will come back, if Dolo gets healthy enough and if Shea starts playing. Hopefully people won't just say, "my lineup is..." and ignore everyone else's. I really want to find a solution to this. I'm aware that I'm not the most knowledgeable on here, so I won't have the best formation

4-2-3-1 seems to be our go to formation. There are some locks: Donovan, Bradley, Altidore, and Fabian Johnson. Dempsey is no longer a certainty, although it is hard to think of any formation that doesn't include Deuce. Notice how we're missing 1 cm, 3 in the back, and 2 attacking middies.

Of all the cb's in our pool, the only starters I would want are Besler, Brooks, or Cameron. I miss Boca. RB's we all better pray Dolo comes back without missing a beat, or Chandler catches form.

CMs, almost everyone on here has said how they don't want Jones pairing Bradley. We need to either change formations or figure a more suitable partner. This is where there will be the most debate as there has been. I'm not even weighing in because I'm honestly clueless at this point. Now for the attackers. Other than Donovan and Altidore, our best options are Deuce and Johannsson. Obvious problem is that all Dempsey and Donovan play in the same spot. Altidore isn't getting the bench so its a matter of putting AJ as the second forward which i agree with. The only way this could happen is if we put Dempsey's slow ass on the left or right. This could work, but its never going to be as good as if we play with a true winger. Shea is very unlikely to fill that spot and no one else will be ready in time.

So at the moment... The best I could do is:

----Altidore--
-------Johannsson---
Dempsey------------Donovan
------Bradley--Jolestress (Jones, Kljestan, Torres)
Johnson-Besler-Cameron-Cherundolo

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #86
Wednesday October 9, 2013 9:45pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 5,025
23 for Brasil. Klinsmann should make wholesale changes and bring in the youth and inexperienced because clearly that is what everyone wants, right? So here goes 23 for Brasil:

GK: Sean John, Hamid, Guzan

Defenders: Yedlin, Chandler, Gonzo, Brooks, O'Neill, Besler, Klute, Fabian

CM's: Bradley, Rowe, Diskerud, Kitchen, Gil

Attackers: Arriola, Altidore, AJ, Wood, Agudelo, Boyd, Zardes

It's not too bad of a young 23 for Brasil. Actually the 2018 WC team could potentially look a lot like this.

rainORshine
Post #87
Thursday October 10, 2013 3:13pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,773
Original post from 2tone

23 for Brasil. Klinsmann should make wholesale changes and bring in the youth and inexperienced because clearly that is what everyone wants, right? So here goes 23 for Brasil:

GK: Sean John, Hamid, Guzan

Defenders: Yedlin, Chandler, Gonzo, Brooks, O'Neill, Besler, Klute, Fabian

CM's: Bradley, Rowe, Diskerud, Kitchen, Gil

Attackers: Arriola, Altidore, AJ, Wood, Agudelo, Boyd, Zardes

It's not too bad of a young 23 for Brasil. Actually the 2018 WC team could potentially look a lot like this.


my big problem with this list would be besler - who turns 27 in a few months. too old. maybe replace with hedges?

(realize guzan is late 20's, but since GKs play in 40's, hes still 'young')

i think i might have to find spots for lichaj (yedlin) and williams (rowe) - both of whom are 24...

powers probably deserves a spot - might take out arriola or wood and move gil to an attacker

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #88
Saturday October 12, 2013 5:12pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 5,025
23 for Brasil revised:

Gk: Rimando, Guzan, Howard

Defense: Dolo, Evans, Cameron, Gonzo, Besler, Brooks, Beasley, Castillo

CM's: Bradley, Jones, Diskerud, Kljestan

Attackers: Deuce, Lando, EJ, Altidore, AJ, Bedoya, Zusi, Fabian

Alternates:

GK: Sean John

Defense: Goodson, Chandler

CM's: Beckerman, Williams, Holden

Attackers: Pontius, Boyd, Shea, Herc

Lykou11601
Post #89
Tuesday October 15, 2013 12:10am

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 122
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/art...

Impossible not to love Stu! I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for a Bradley Holden midfield.

rainORshine
Post #90
Saturday October 26, 2013 11:26pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,773
november friendlies may go a long way towards solidifying a few spots:

CB: brooks, gonzalez, goodson, oneill
OB: beasley, cameron, chandler, fabian
CM: beckerman, bradley, diskerud, jones, kljestan
A: altidore, boyd, davis, dempsey, donovan, AJ, zusi

just miss: agudelo, bedoya, besler, gomez, EJ, klute, lichaj, orozco, torres, williams

- i know besler is basically a lock but would still like to see oneill with a shot to grab a spot in january (and i want goodson's experience)
- davis' left foot more valuable than bedoya
- dont need EJ's BS

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