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2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #1
Thursday July 18, 2013 12:31am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 4,950
Right now both Bradley and Jones are sure bets to be on the WC team, but who else might make the team at CM and DM? Lets take a look:

One foot in the door:

Holden: He has the talent to be a starter for the USMNT. Klisnmann clearly favors Holden.

Cameron: Where does he finally play for Stoke? For me CM is his to lose for Stoke this season. Stoke City was awful in the center of midfield last season, and I think Cameron can really solidify that position for them this year.

Contenders:

Williams: Another Klinsmann boy. He needs to have a very good year for Reading.

Diskerud: Has something that may be needed at the WC which is instant offense from CM.

Torres: Klinsmann has given him plenty of opportunities. IMO he doesn't make the WC team.

Kljestan: I think Klisnmann has called up Kljestan out of necessity instead of actual talent. He will have to have one of his best years in order to be on that WC team.

Beckerman: Klinsman likes Beckerman. I think his inclusion for the WC team will depend on player availability.

Edu: He has fallen quite a bit, but he could push for a WC selection with a good year for either Stoke or a reported move permanently to Bursaspor.

Morales: I think he made the right move to Ingolstadt for his career right now. He has a lot of talent and potential, but I think he is more for the 2018 WC cycle.

Potential surprise call-up:

Luis Gil: Personally I see Luis as more of a Xavi type at the senior level. Barring a mess of injuries Luis may only see time in the January camp.

Seb Lletget: Obviously this is a long shot, but he can play CM and CAM. Barring a ton of injuries Seb will probably have to wait until the 2018 WC cycle.

The 4 CM's I see making the 2014 WC team are: Bradley, Jones, Holden, Cameron. But as always injuries happen and things can change quickly in a year.

Nick4235
Boston, Mass
Post #2
Thursday July 18, 2013 1:26am

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 145
In my opinion the CM ranking goes like this...

1) Bradley
2.) Jones (first two can interchange)
3.) Cameron
4.) Holden (if he gets back to his old self he can get even higher)
5/ 6.) Mix/ Torres-I think Mix has been solid so far in the gold cup and I think Torres is often underrated by many fans
7.) Kljestan
8.) Williams (I think he's very talented and has gotten hate because of how Klinsmann has untilised him i.e. on the wing or paired with Bradley and Jones)
9.) Edu - fallen quite a bit but could work his way up the order (defensively very good)
10.) Beckerman - look I think he's a decent player but he doesn't have the defensive qualities of Edu or passing of some of these other players
11.) Morales- talented and young but for me not gunna work his way up that much

For the future:
-Morales
-Rowe (more attacking but can play deeper
-Lletget (more attacking tho)
-Gil
-Scott Caldwell (I think one of the most underrated rookies...yes I'm a homer)
How close are Stanko and Pelosi to first team action or loan spells?

rainORshine
Post #3
Thursday July 18, 2013 3:25am

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,772
i think there is room for 5 CMs. as of now:
locks:
1) bradley
2) jones

in
3) cameron - ultimate X factor
4) kljestan - until proven otherwise. looking forward to seeing him get 2nd bite at CL group play this fall. 1 start JK? c'mon man
5) edu - may become expendable if cameron solidifies that spot

out
6) diskerud - norway is an atrocious league. well below MLS. he is lucky to get GC call-up. pedestrian v costa rica. needs to be better in knock-out rounds
7) holden - worse than diskerud
8) torres - curious to see if gets another shot at CM in GC. could work well sitting behind mix
9) williams - demotion to championship hurts chances
10) beckerman - 11 times as many starts as sacha?

MSantoine
Post #4
Thursday July 18, 2013 12:22pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,142
I think Sasha has one last chance. He has to play well in the UCL and then come to play in what will likeley be the Bosnia or Austria friendly. The thing that hurts him is he plays the same style as Bradley, Jones, Cameron, Holden. Mixx brings something a little different. We need one of our CMs to be offensive in nature so if we go into the 3rd game needing to win we can go for it

rainORshine
Post #5
Thursday July 18, 2013 3:09pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,772
Original post from MSantoine

I think Sasha has one last chance. He has to play well in the UCL and then come to play in what will likeley be the Bosnia or Austria friendly. The thing that hurts him is he plays the same style as Bradley, Jones, Cameron, Holden. Mixx brings something a little different. We need one of our CMs to be offensive in nature so if we go into the 3rd game needing to win we can go for it


i think the jury is out about mix. he plays in a mickey mouse league - i would say significantly below MLS level - and his opportunities for USMNT have been low pressure / competition for the most part.

if you watched kljestan starring for U-23, racking up assists and goals in MLS and scoring a hat-trick against sweden you would say he "brings something different". but better competition neutralizes talent and makes good players look ordinary

next few games (well, after the el salvador game) will give us better idea about whether mix really offers something valuable to USMNT,,,

Nick4235
Boston, Mass
Post #6
Thursday July 18, 2013 4:02pm

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 145
Original post from rainORshine

i think the jury is out about mix. he plays in a mickey mouse league - i would say significantly below MLS level - and his opportunities for USMNT have been low pressure / competition for the most part.

if you watched kljestan starring for U-23, racking up assists and goals in MLS and scoring a hat-trick against sweden you would say he "brings something different". but better competition neutralizes talent and makes good players look ordinary

next few games (well, after the el salvador game) will give us better idea about whether mix really offers something valuable to USMNT,,,


Sorry but that Sweden game was 4 years ago and he hasn't exactly been a scoring machine over in Belgium. The Belgian league is better than MLS but not THAT much better. Sacha may play in a better league that doesn't make him a better player or a the very least a player that fits with out team better. I don't think the jury is out on Mix at all. In fact how can it be he's only played in a few games and had a somewhat positive impact on all of them. Well see how the Gold Cup goes before calling Mix a failure.

Lykou11601
Post #7
Thursday July 18, 2013 4:11pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 122
Sacha already had his last chance and he failed. Nothing against the guy, he is just not international quality and JK knows it. Holden came on at the end of that Belgium game and was able to produce more chances than Kljestan did the entire game. I don't understand the hate on Holden, or the love for Kljestan. If your evidence for a player being good is based off something that happened four years ago, or back when he played in MLS, or scoring a hat trick in a FRIENDLY back in '09... Need I say more?

rainORshine
Post #8
Thursday July 18, 2013 4:15pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,772
Original post from Nick4235

Sorry but that Sweden game was 4 years ago and he hasn't exactly been a scoring machine over in Belgium. The Belgian league is better than MLS but not THAT much better. Sacha may play in a better league that doesn't make him a better player or a the very least a player that fits with out team better. I don't think the jury is out on Mix at all. In fact how can it be he's only played in a few games and had a somewhat positive impact on all of them. Well see how the Gold Cup goes before calling Mix a failure.


???

think you missed this sentence (in reference to kljestan):
"but better competition neutralizes talent and makes good players look ordinary"

"I don't think the jury is out on Mix at all. In fact how can it be he's only played in a few games and had a somewhat positive impact on all of them. Well see how the Gold Cup goes before calling Mix a failure."

maybe you are confused about the meaning of "jury is still out"?

nobody is calling him a failure. means we dont really know yet - after a few games against weak competition - what he can offer. I suggested we see how next few games go before making a judgment

rainORshine
Post #9
Thursday July 18, 2013 4:28pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,772
Original post from Lykou11601

Sacha already had his last chance and he failed. Nothing against the guy, he is just not international quality and JK knows it. Holden came on at the end of that Belgium game and was able to produce more chances than Kljestan did the entire game. I don't understand the hate on Holden, or the love for Kljestan. If your evidence for a player being good is based off something that happened four years ago, or back when he played in MLS, or scoring a hat trick in a FRIENDLY back in '09... Need I say more?


looks like you also missed this sentence (in reference to kljestan):
"but better competition neutralizes talent and makes good players look ordinary"

not sure what hate for holden or love for kljestan you are talking about

right now regarding entire USMNT CM pool right now I would rank them
4) kljestan
5) edu
6) diskerud
7) holden

not sure how anyone could argue that kljestan has not been the best player out of this group over the last couple years

if they did want to argue it i would imagine it would be a very weak argument - lacking any significant objectivity (i dont think using belgium game as only criteria is valid - although most player ratings had kljestan as one of the better US starters - ahead of gonzo, cameron, goodson, davis, jozy...)

no hate for holden or love for kljestan, just how i would rank them at this moment

Nick4235
Boston, Mass
Post #10
Thursday July 18, 2013 5:05pm

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 145
Original post from rainORshine

???

think you missed this sentence (in reference to kljestan):
"but better competition neutralizes talent and makes good players look ordinary"

"I don't think the jury is out on Mix at all. In fact how can it be he's only played in a few games and had a somewhat positive impact on all of them. Well see how the Gold Cup goes before calling Mix a failure."

maybe you are confused about the meaning of "jury is still out"?

nobody is calling him a failure. means we dont really know yet - after a few games against weak competition - what he can offer. I suggested we see how next few games go before making a judgment


Alright misunderstood the "jury is out" part but my point stands. All of Kljestans success with the USA came a number of years ago and besides doesn't he play a deeper role with Anderlecht (sp) than he did back then. We have soo many guys who can play that deeper role but Mix is more attacking in my opinion than Kljestan.

Also I did not miss the "but better competition neutralizes talent and makes good players look ordinary" line in fact I responded to it by saying the Belgian league is not THAT good that our attacking players (like you suggest Kljestan is) should suddenly stop producing attacking numbers. Now I think we can all agree Mix needs a move to a better league in order to test how he can do against better competition but simply saying "but better competition neutralizes talent and makes good players look ordinary" does not always work. Some players move to more difficult environments and thrive. Why not let Mix test his abilities against harder opposition rather than say if he moves to a better league he will simply be ordinary.

skangles
DC
Post #11
Thursday July 18, 2013 5:37pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,918
If we're trying to read Klinsmann's mind, I'm surprised that Beckerman ranks so low on most of these lists. I expect JK to start him the rest of the Gold Cup which would put him around 5th on the CM list.

I'm not sure that he stays there all the way to the World Cup but for now Klinsmann seems to love him and thus far in the Gold Cup he's somewhat reedemed himself from his poor play that initially led to him falling out of favor with JK.

skangles
DC
Post #12
Thursday July 18, 2013 5:43pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,918
If we're trying to read Klinsmann's mind, I'm surprised that Beckerman ranks so low on most of these lists. I expect JK to start him the rest of the Gold Cup which would put him around 5th on the CM list.

I'm not sure that he stays there all the way to the World Cup as we have more talented players in the pool but for now Klinsmann seems to love him and thus far in the Gold Cup he's somewhat reedemed himself from his poor play that initially led to him falling out of favor with JK.

rainORshine
Post #13
Thursday July 18, 2013 5:58pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,772
Original post from Nick4235

Alright misunderstood the "jury is out" part but my point stands. All of Kljestans success with the USA came a number of years ago and besides doesn't he play a deeper role with Anderlecht (sp) than he did back then. We have soo many guys who can play that deeper role but Mix is more attacking in my opinion than Kljestan.

Also I did not miss the "but better competition neutralizes talent and makes good players look ordinary" line in fact I responded to it by saying the Belgian league is not THAT good that our attacking players (like you suggest Kljestan is) should suddenly stop producing attacking numbers. Now I think we can all agree Mix needs a move to a better league in order to test how he can do against better competition but simply saying "but better competition neutralizes talent and makes good players look ordinary" does not always work. Some players move to more difficult environments and thrive. Why not let Mix test his abilities against harder opposition rather than say if he moves to a better league he will simply be ordinary.


yes, all of kljestans success with US came before JK because JK DOES NOT PLAY HIM. he cant have success if he does not play.

yes, he has played pretty deep for anderlecht, played farther forward in MLS. the point is we will just have to see how/if diskerud's game translates against better competition. might be good or might not, but he does not deserve the benefit of the doubt.

for sacha it has meant a more conservative role, although with his CM partner biglia moving to serie A this summer, that may change. we will see how diskerud responds to better opposition in semi and final. only 2 games, but better than nothing

kljestan lead yanks abroad in assists last season. his production has not stopped - even though he plays in a pretty deep role. the fact is that kljestans offensive production in belgium and UCL over last couple of seasons (9 goals / 13 assists) has been better than diskerud's in norway and EVERY OTHER CM PLAYING ABROAD. that is just a stone cold fact.

now mix will have a chance to impress JK in important games next week - an opportunity sacha has not had

i wish mix and holden all the best next week. hope they do well. i also feel kljestan has been shafted by JK - who has given guys like edu (13), beckerman (11), torres (11), williams (10) 45 starts to kljestan's 1.

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #14
Friday July 19, 2013 8:09am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 273
MB
Cameron
Jones
Stu
Torres/Beckerman

I don't like the MB/Jones combo at all, it really shackles MB because he winds up having to cover for Jones or risk leaving a gaping hole in front of the back line. I'd rather have Cameron behind MB so he has the freedom to get up field. I'd like to see MB's savvy and composure upfield than JJ's streaky passing. Granted in certain match ups you need a destroyer, but not one that roams all over, playing like an 8, stalling our own attacks with mediocre passing and decision making.

I'd take MB shading behind Stu as the next best option.

JK loves JJ and considers him a team leader, so he'll be starting, but after seeing how great the chemistry was with Cameron shading behind MB, i don't think that is the best way to go.


Conor O'Brien could finally make his Austrian debut for Wiener Neustadt on Saturday.
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