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MSantoine
Post #1
Tuesday July 2, 2013 4:11pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,959
Just in case no one has noticed there are two huge differences between the US & the other potential top squads for the gold cup.

Field players under 25
Mexico - 9
Honduras - 10
Panama- 11
Canada -11
CR- 4
US - 5 (drops to 4 if Gatt is replaced)

Fun fun:
Mexico total caps: 105
US total caps: 504

So Mexico is truly treating this as a B event and brought in young & unproven players. We brought in our best reserves and are going all out to win. These squads make it so if US doesnt win it will be a huge embarrasment. The only other nation treating it like we are is Costa Rica. Mexico, Honduras, Panama, & Canada (the other top 6 teams in the tourney) are all treating this as a way for young players to get esxposure and some international experience.

Mojofc
Post #2
Tuesday July 2, 2013 4:30pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 665
This only makes me upset.

Although to point out, Mexico's A Squad just played some games in Brazil, wonder what they would have done without the Confed Cup.

Not that it changes our approach.

MSantoine, let's see an average age of the 23 called up compared to other nations.
Rain, rain, go away Come again another day - USMNT, MUFC
MSantoine
Post #3
Tuesday July 2, 2013 4:54pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,959
Original post from Mojofc

This only makes me upset.

Although to point out, Mexico's A Squad just played some games in Brazil, wonder what they would have done without the Confed Cup.

Not that it changes our approach.

MSantoine, let's see an average age of the 23 called up compared to other nations.


Average Ages of field players (goalies peak at older ages so its not a valid comparison to field players)

Canada-24.1
Panama-24.7
Honduras-25
Mexico-25.2
CR-26.4
USA-26.8

Oldest team of the contenders and other than CR over 18 months difference

tjknowsall
Post #4
Tuesday July 2, 2013 6:39pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 268
i have to admit i was really disapointed when i saw the roster. I was hoping for the likes of COB or bobby wood or gyau or all three of them, but i guess not. The tournament will be a success though if holden looks sharp. If holden is back up to his form of 4 years ago i dont care if we win or lose that will be the biggest take away.

JFORD
Post #5
Tuesday July 2, 2013 7:35pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 128
US squad is a B-chance squad. Mexico is trying to find new players since its team is in a bad moment. And Canada is trying to turn the page and to begin a new cicle with view to 2018. We should have younger players, but JK seems to be a little conservative.

MSantoine
Post #6
Tuesday July 2, 2013 7:52pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,959
For comparison sake. 2009, the last time we had the gold cup the year before the World Cup our average age was 25.75 (1 year younger on average). We also had 7 players with no caps on the roster (as opposed to 2 this year and 1 if Ashe is removed). In total there were 16 of 23 players with 5 or fewer caps then compared to 10 of 23.

Also in regards to Canada. They are doing the Belgium route. If they brought there absolute top choice team I bet they would be a favorite and have a decent chance to win it all (there almost A team tied us 0-0 against pretty much the exct team we have in the tourney). Instead of going all out to maybe win a mostly meaningless tourney they chose to take a step back to bring their nation forward towards 2018. I lvoe when a nation gets it and they definitely do.

rainORshine
Post #7
Tuesday July 2, 2013 8:34pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,768
i think this line of argument is a little overblown...

- donovan - 144 caps / 31 y/o - obviously a unique situation and i dont think people really have a problem with it

- beasley - 103 / 31 - surprise inclusion but understandable given the situation on the left side of the field, especially now that ashe is maybe out. JK wants to see what DMB can give him at LM and/or give him more reps at LB.

- CB situation - our starting backs have have a combined 18 caps. given that fact i dont buy all the complaining about going with veterans in GC who, age-wise, are in the prime of their careers - goodson and gooch both 31 (still prime for CBs, generally speaking). beyond this, JK obviously feel that parkhurst, orozco and boca are all better options than the list guys who really have yet to fully distinguish themselves in MLS

also, this GC means something, unlike 4 years ago

Mojofc
Post #8
Tuesday July 2, 2013 9:13pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 665
Original post from rainORshine

- CB situation - our starting backs have have a combined 18 caps. given that fact i dont buy all the complaining about going with veterans in GC who, age-wise, are in the prime of their careers - goodson and gooch both 31 (still prime for CBs, generally speaking). beyond this, JK obviously feel that parkhurst, orozco and boca are all better options than the list guys who really have yet to fully distinguish themselves in MLS

also, this GC means something, unlike 4 years ago


Gooch is at the prime of his career? If so, he would be starting for the US and would have been for the past few years as well. Gooch lost a step post injury and most would argue he lost more than just a step. Saying that, I'm a 'Gooch fan', but I would be absolutely shocked if he was at 2O14.

Also if you read the posts about the issues with calling in these players, it's not just calling them in but not having any youthful MLS options as part of the 35. That is the key problem most of us have. The 35 man roster includes zero depth testing Besler and Gonzo. Only way Gonzo loses his spot to any of these players is if he fails massively. Besler has zero risk as of now. This doesn't provide us true depth and pressure on starters going into 2O14.

If Gooch or Goodson fails to show quality in the group stage, we then call in who? Besler or Gonzo for the post group stages? That counters your arguement..

but hey, this is a pointless convo from here on out. We have voiced our concerns and this is the reason why.
Rain, rain, go away Come again another day - USMNT, MUFC
skangles
DC
Post #9
Tuesday July 2, 2013 9:34pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,791
I agree with Rain, I'm not bothered by the Gold Cup roster. JK is clearly looking for insurance policies ahead of 2014 and that is absolutely fine by me. There will almost certainly be a changing of the guard after 2014, brew the youngsters then and find the best options for next year now.

The only two young(er) players that have been snubbed are Juan Agudelo and George John.

Loche Achles
Post #10
Tuesday July 2, 2013 9:52pm

Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts: 269
Juan Agudelo wasn't snubbed. He has been pretty good this season but he has been hurt a lot and is on his third team in two season. It was a 50/50, not a snub. Arguments could be made either way.

I agree though that George John was snubbed. He deserved a look.

But its clear what JK is looking at here... Vet backups for down the road. The young guys are just lagniappe to round out the roster and give new ideas if they play well.

admsghs27
Post #11
Tuesday July 2, 2013 10:14pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,762
George john isnt getting much game time, zimmerman pretty much took his spot.. Wanted too see gyau but wasnt on the preliminary roster he would of been the perfect replacement for gatt..

chillguy1992
Post #12
Tuesday July 2, 2013 10:24pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 350
Original post from admsghs27

George john isnt getting much game time, zimmerman pretty much took his spot.. Wanted too see gyau but wasnt on the preliminary roster he would of been the perfect replacement for gatt..


Zimmerman didnt take his spot.... George John was injured for one game and zimmerman gets the start. The last game zimmerman played before that he come on at halftime for matt hedges. George John has started 13 of the 17 mls games each game he was healthy he has been starting, the only reason he has missed 4 were due to minor injuries he is and will be the starter for the rest of the year until he moves to Europe. Yeah it would have been good callup but at least he can go back and try to get a starting spot for st pauli if his loan is extended or can get some decent time with hoffenheim in the bundesliga.

EKneezy
Post #13
Wednesday July 3, 2013 2:00am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,634
I think there are special circumstances for each team.

Canada is blowing it up and aiming for 2018. That team is young no DeRo.

Panama Honduras and Costa Rica all are aiming to win just like us.

Mexico called in a B team due to the Confederations Cup.

I like the team. I will hold judgement until we play Guatemala.

richieJkulesaNY
Post #14
Wednesday July 3, 2013 2:23am

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 879
Original post from admsghs27

George john isnt getting much game time, zimmerman pretty much took his spot.. Wanted too see gyau but wasnt on the preliminary roster he would of been the perfect replacement for gatt..


Seems like Gyau has an opportunity to battle for a first team spot at Hoffenheim, which might explain him not being on the 35 man prelim roster. Who knows. He's without question a better player than Gatt.

rainORshine
Post #15
Wednesday July 3, 2013 4:08pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,768
Original post from Loche Achles

Juan Agudelo wasn't snubbed. He has been pretty good this season but he has been hurt a lot and is on his third team in two season. It was a 50/50, not a snub. Arguments could be made either way.

I agree though that George John was snubbed. He deserved a look.

But its clear what JK is looking at here... Vet backups for down the road. The young guys are just lagniappe to round out the roster and give new ideas if they play well.


lagniappe. nice...

as far as john is concerned i think it might have just come down to really bad luck. john appeared in only 1 game in all of may (when prelim roster was made)

fact that he missed another game this weekend seems to confirm some injury concerns,,,

pretty unbelievable stat - FC Dallas goals against 2013:
with john: 10 in 12 games - .83 / game
without john: 12 in 5 games - 2.4 / game

maybe hedges (and zimmerman) are not that great,,,