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MSantoine
Post #1
Tuesday June 11, 2013 2:56pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,050
With Englands U21 flame out and ESPNs love of all things England when it comes to soccer there have been several interesting articles about Englands continued failures. There was a great point how because EPL makes so much more money than other leagues the teams have more money to spend. Becuase of this they are less inclined to play younger players, especially unproven ones, as they continually are bringing in international caliber players. This leaves the England youths to play in Championship and even League one until they develop more. Leagues like Germany and Spain have realized that since the TV deal isnt there like England they have to play some youths to get the benefit and money savings, which in turn develops those countries youths. Also both Germany and Spain (and now portugal, Norway and others) are allowing clubs to submit a B team as a U23 type team to play in the 2nd or 3rd tier. England does not do this. Arsenal can load players to Championship or League one teams but that doesnt guarentee they get minutes or develop.

I see MLS following the Spain/Germany model (aka the successful model) with the homegrown players becoming more and more important to teams across the league. Throw in the direct tie with some NASL teams and I definitely see the German style model being built minus pro/rel. I think thats a good sign for our national teams future as it took Germany/Spain about 10 years after implementing it to reap the benefits ( would be either 2018 or 2022 cycle for us). I think this is definitely a positive for MLS that can be taken from the England failures (which is always fun to point out anyways)

blaise213
San Francisco CA
Post #2
Tuesday June 11, 2013 7:13pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,302
Maybe thats why Manchester City bought NYCFC

They want to let all their youth player compete against MLS

admsghs27
Post #3
Tuesday June 11, 2013 7:19pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,958
This is not even a real topic.. Has nothing to do with us soccer.. If anything post who's going to win game 3 of the nba finals.. Heat or spurs ? I never watch epl I think is one of the most overrated leagues in the world.. And England has suck more than 100 years, everyone knows fifa game them that controversial world cup.. They confessed a couple years back..

tylercocinas
Post #4
Tuesday June 11, 2013 7:31pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 704
Original post from admsghs27

This is not even a real topic.. Has nothing to do with us soccer..


Ha perhaps thats why it was posted under "Europe >>England" section of the forum?

In any case top to bottom it definitely is still the best league in the world, which is why it makes the most money in the world.

To OP's point about there being limited chances for young English players in the Prem, in Serie A the typical wait has been even longer for young players to be given an opportunity to prove themselves after years in Serie B. Its not unheard of nor unusual for players to make their top flight, 1st team debut with a club well into their 20s.

Red
NY
Post #5
Tuesday June 11, 2013 7:50pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 417
The only thing we can learn from England is how to market a league to the rest of the world otherwise we can learn what not to do if you want your nation to be a WC contender every 4 years(where we can learn from Germany, Spain or Italy.)

skangles
DC
Post #6
Tuesday June 11, 2013 11:52pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,855
I think it has more to do with England historically being vastly overrated team because they're well supported.

chillguy1992
Post #7
Wednesday June 12, 2013 7:12am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 396
Young players in England are getting too much hype from the english media. Every time their is a player who looks like they might be a good player they get overpaid overexposed and overused from a young age which ends up with a lot of burnout of young talent. England club teams also value winning much more over developing young english talent. England doesnt take youth teams seriously enough and the end result is english youth believing they arent at the top. This lack of confidence translates to the national team. Also the english clubs dont take youth tournaments for english national team players seriously and it doesnt help hodgson brought up a couple of potential players to the national team for friendlys instead of the youth european champoinships. Friendlies that proved that england is just as good as mexico at tying the opposition rather then actually winning the game. Rather then allowing these youth the potential to win a youth national team tournament he lets them join up with overrated players. Look at spain and germany they win the youth tournaments and they gain confidence and they let their youth dictate for the next decade of how to play and how to win at the adult international level. Sucess breeds success while it might not be the case for all national teams it certainly does go a long way.

As you saw at the european championships against italy it was 11 men defending with 30 shots for italy and a whooping 4 for england. England fails in development and tactics they need an absolute overhaul of youth development but they spent 750 million euros for a brand new stadium to show their overated national team rather then spend it like germany did on youth talent and developing a national system of tactics. In the end England needs to invest in young players a lot more need its club in england to promote more english talent at young ages and stop overhyping every potential young player. The media does the national team no favors and england is the ultimate warning of when profits are put over player development.

admsghs27
Post #8
Wednesday June 12, 2013 9:54am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,958
everyone please stop this. ima post primera A, brasil campeonato.. or la liga, or bundesliga... Cuase who is England ? Next post by me is Israel or a league Australia or maybe antartica or Greenland... anyways spurs won, dodgers, Yankees, reds, ext... idk what the fuck is this gayyy forummm... by the way lanus, firpo won today also...

MSantoine
Post #9
Wednesday June 12, 2013 12:08pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,050
Original post from chillguy1992

Young players in England are getting too much hype from the english media. Every time their is a player who looks like they might be a good player they get overpaid overexposed and overused from a young age which ends up with a lot of burnout of young talent. England club teams also value winning much more over developing young english talent. England doesnt take youth teams seriously enough and the end result is english youth believing they arent at the top. This lack of confidence translates to the national team. Also the english clubs dont take youth tournaments for english national team players seriously and it doesnt help hodgson brought up a couple of potential players to the national team for friendlys instead of the youth european champoinships. Friendlies that proved that england is just as good as mexico at tying the opposition rather then actually winning the game. Rather then allowing these youth the potential to win a youth national team tournament he lets them join up with overrated players. Look at spain and germany they win the youth tournaments and they gain confidence and they let their youth dictate for the next decade of how to play and how to win at the adult international level. Sucess breeds success while it might not be the case for all national teams it certainly does go a long way.

As you saw at the european championships against italy it was 11 men defending with 30 shots for italy and a whooping 4 for england. England fails in development and tactics they need an absolute overhaul of youth development but they spent 750 million euros for a brand new stadium to show their overated national team rather then spend it like germany did on youth talent and developing a national system of tactics. In the end England needs to invest in young players a lot more need its club in england to promote more english talent at young ages and stop overhyping every potential young player. The media does the national team no favors and england is the ultimate warning of when profits are put over player development.


I agree to some of these points. However qualifying for youth tourneys is without a doubt the hardest to do in Europe over any other federation. Theyve qualified for every UEFA U21 & every U20 world cup since 07. Not many federations can claim that. So is it a case of when they finally get close to being ready to play major club minutes they get buried on the benches of EPL teams or stuck in championship? I think its very interesting to note and to look back in another cycle and see if the same things keep happening. Its comforting to know that MLS is not following this model but trying to get 18-21 year olds into the pro teams (even from other countries)

MSantoine
Post #10
Wednesday June 12, 2013 12:09pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,050
Original post from admsghs27

everyone please stop this. ima post primera A, brasil campeonato.. or la liga, or bundesliga... Cuase who is England ? Next post by me is Israel or a league Australia or maybe antartica or Greenland... anyways spurs won, dodgers, Yankees, reds, ext... idk what the fuck is this gayyy forummm... by the way lanus, firpo won today also...


Stop trolling. Obviously some people care more about soccer than just USA and american players. Some of us actually enjoy high quality soccer no matter what continent its played on

MattYielding
Heber Springs, Arkansas
Post #11
Wednesday June 12, 2013 4:10pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 83
MSantoine...stop making excellent points! Making adult/logical points on a forum is alien to most.

Mojofc
Post #12
Wednesday June 12, 2013 4:54pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 670
Without reading any of the thread...

It's about the $$$$$$.

If you're at the top, you can't risk the points, Champions League. $

If you're below the 50% mark, you risk relegation. $

If you're between 6-9, you can typically play youth. $ isn't at risk as much, most teams don't want the Euro anyways due to the difficulty of having too many games during the season.

Also, teams aren't owned by locals any longer.. they're owned by people from other countries.
Rain, rain, go away Come again another day - USMNT, MUFC
Know Nothing
Post #13
Wednesday June 12, 2013 5:23pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 338
If you look deep enough, you will see that the youth set-up for the top teams in England resemble the first team set-up...the majority of the key players are brought to the academy from other countries.


Conor O'Brien could finally make his Austrian debut for Wiener Neustadt on Saturday.
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