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dolcem
Post #16
Thursday August 15, 2013 12:58pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Let's not forget that this guy, as a TEENAGER, was a starter for the best team in South America at the time, playing alongside one of the best players of all time (Veron, and while he was still playing for the Argentine NT at that). His league, top to bottom, is filled with quality (amazing players come from there and new teams challenge for the title every season). We should have been thrilled about him and hyping him up like we do all of our other "young talent" (people like Adu, Shea, Gyau, etc., who haven't achieved nearly as much at the club level as Hoyos has). He was so good the Argentine national team called him up. How many players in US history could have been called up to the Argentine national team? I don't think we've ever had anyone skilled enough.

Americans though are obsessed with European soccer and don't seem to think anyone in the Americas is good enough until they've played in Europe. That certainly isn't the case if we're talking about players in the Brazilian or Argentine leagues.

He did get in a horrific accident but unlike Charlie Davies, his game isn't really built on pace. Anyway, his asset to us is the technical skill so lacking in the American player pool, which he shouldn't have lost. I think it's mostly a psychological issue.

Especially considering how desperately we need options on the wing, if he gets PT in Greece he should be called into the NT ASAP.

Let's not forget either that this guy isn't a Johansson, he is 100% 'Merican.
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tylercocinas
Post #17
Thursday August 15, 2013 1:34pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,151
Original post from dolcem

How many players in US history could have been called up to the Argentine national team? I don't think we've ever had anyone skilled enough.



It was U20s. Quite an achievement, but U20s nonetheless. Countless players have suited up for every nation at that level and haven't panned out. Additionally, the Greek League isn't exactly one of the top in Europe either. For me he would really have to be lighting it up to get a NT call.

Bshredder
Post #18
Thursday August 15, 2013 2:13pm

Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts: 1,459
This guy has hardly played in 2 years and there is 0 sign he's recovered.

It's one thing to go after a Johannsson or Brooks who are both doing well. But the US team is beyond going through a dumpster bin looking for people who don't play and are trying to revive their careers with a team expected to be relegation fodder in Greece

The US team is better than that and isn't that desperate on the wing

GD10
Post #19
Thursday August 15, 2013 2:18pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 276
Amen ^ Hoyos is the Latin Charlie Davies, we don't need him especially with Fabian in midfield and Donovan returning to the A team. Hoyos is just not the same player he was few years back.

dolcem
Post #20
Thursday August 15, 2013 3:22pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
People still bring up Adu, Davies, and guys nowhere near as accomplished as Hoyos (Shea, Gyau, Wooten, Wood, etc.) as the future of the team. I'm not saying we should be giving him a call-up any time soon but considering how much potential he showed, if he starts playing again we all have reason to be excited. It's a psychological thing with him I think. If he overcomes it he could still be a very good player, certainly USNT caliber.

I don't know who these wing options are. Shea probably won't get PT at Stoke. Corona did score some nice goals at the Gold Cup but was mostly invisible the rest of the time. Zusi is not a winger and not good enough to play outside of CONCACAF. Ditto for Eddie Johnson. Gomez isn't a winger either. Johnson can play on the wing but he's more of an LB and we need someone who is really effective in the final third playing there (our lack of such a player is the problem, so bringing up a defender to the wing won't solve it). Adu won't get any PT either. Even if Bedoya gets PT this season I don't know if he's good enough. And Johnson is more of a defender (and we need people who are really good in the final third), not to mention if he starts on the wing, that means we're starting with Beasley at LB. He'll only be slower and he will be completely torn apart but non-CONCACAF wingers. Torres is good but he is definitely not a winger, he's a deep-lying playmaker.

That basically leaves us with Johansson. So I don't see why, if Hoyos plays this year and shows some of the potential he had, he couldn't sneak his way up to the NT ahead of some of those other guys come 2014. Of course it's a long-shot (he needs to show he has recovered from the injury, which might not happen) but I don't think it's impossible.
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Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #21
Thursday August 15, 2013 4:08pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,408
Johnson may be our best full back at the moment, but he's not am outright. He is very good in the final third.

Bshredder
Post #22
Thursday August 15, 2013 5:04pm

Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts: 1,459
Original post from dolcem

People still bring up Adu, Davies, and guys nowhere near as accomplished as Hoyos (Shea, Gyau, Wooten, Wood, etc.) as the future of the team. I'm not saying we should be giving him a call-up any time soon but considering how much potential he showed, if he starts playing again we all have reason to be excited. It's a psychological thing with him I think. If he overcomes it he could still be a very good player, certainly USNT caliber.

I don't know who these wing options are. Shea probably won't get PT at Stoke. Corona did score some nice goals at the Gold Cup but was mostly invisible the rest of the time. Zusi is not a winger and not good enough to play outside of CONCACAF. Ditto for Eddie Johnson. Gomez isn't a winger either. Johnson can play on the wing but he's more of an LB and we need someone who is really effective in the final third playing there (our lack of such a player is the problem, so bringing up a defender to the wing won't solve it). Adu won't get any PT either. Even if Bedoya gets PT this season I don't know if he's good enough. And Johnson is more of a defender (and we need people who are really good in the final third), not to mention if he starts on the wing, that means we're starting with Beasley at LB. He'll only be slower and he will be completely torn apart but non-CONCACAF wingers. Torres is good but he is definitely not a winger, he's a deep-lying playmaker.

That basically leaves us with Johansson. So I don't see why, if Hoyos plays this year and shows some of the potential he had, he couldn't sneak his way up to the NT ahead of some of those other guys come 2014. Of course it's a long-shot (he needs to show he has recovered from the injury, which might not happen) but I don't think it's impossible.


Nothing's impossible but it is extremely unlikely.

Hoyos isn't accomplished. You don't look at youth performances from several years ago. That's old news. He's a new player now and should be judged according to such. I mean, Danny Szetela helped defeat Brazil's U20 team in 2007 at the World Cup and he's not judged according to that.

Zusi is a solid midfielder who can play wide and hit crosses. Fabian Johnson is a terrific wide player. Donovan can play wide. Bobby Wood can play wide (and unlike Hoyos, is actually playing). Dempsey can play wide.

If the fullbacks are active moving forward, the wingers can pinch in. That helps guys like Bedoya Corona, Donovan, etc.

Then you have guys like Pontius who hasn't played for the U.S team but is a far better option than Hoyos.

How do you speculate that Shea won't see minutes this year at Stoke but somehow Hoyos will surge. That's huge speculation (on both sides).

It's beyond crazy to consider Hoyos at the moment. It's like considering a guy like Alejandro Guido who also doesn't play but could possibly one day.

dolcem
Post #23
Saturday August 17, 2013 3:36pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from Bshredder

Nothing's impossible but it is extremely unlikely.

Hoyos isn't accomplished. You don't look at youth performances from several years ago. That's old news. He's a new player now and should be judged according to such. I mean, Danny Szetela helped defeat Brazil's U20 team in 2007 at the World Cup and he's not judged according to that.

Zusi is a solid midfielder who can play wide and hit crosses. Fabian Johnson is a terrific wide player. Donovan can play wide. Bobby Wood can play wide (and unlike Hoyos, is actually playing). Dempsey can play wide.

If the fullbacks are active moving forward, the wingers can pinch in. That helps guys like Bedoya Corona, Donovan, etc.

Then you have guys like Pontius who hasn't played for the U.S team but is a far better option than Hoyos.

How do you speculate that Shea won't see minutes this year at Stoke but somehow Hoyos will surge. That's huge speculation (on both sides).

It's beyond crazy to consider Hoyos at the moment. It's like considering a guy like Alejandro Guido who also doesn't play but could possibly one day.


Hoyos WAS accomplished. I'm not talking about the youth level, I'm talking about starting for Estudiantes. How many of our starting XI could have made it into that Estudiantes team? I would say less than half. How many teenagers have we had starting in a top ten league in the world (IMO seventh best) on a very good team?

Getting PT of course is a big if for Hoyos but if he does and recovers some of what he was pre-accident (and he was never a great athlete, it's a psychological issue for him) I don't see how he wouldn't deserve a chance. Zusi, Bedoya, or Corona definitely would not have started on that Estudiantes team, and certainly not as teenagers. None of them aside from Bedoya is playing in a league much different than the Greek league (and Bedoya is playing for a team that might get relegated, not to mention who knows if he'll get PT or not). As far as Wood goes, I'd prefer to only use players playing in the top divisions.

People hype up players like Freddy Adu who have never done anything at the club level but showed potential...Hoyos actually proved himself at the club level yet no one talks about him. I think this is because of the eurosnobbish tendencies of a lot of the American fans. They don't rate players who haven't made it in Europe and don't understand how much quality is in the Brazilian and Argentine leagues from top to bottom and how technically gifted the players there are.
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