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2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #1
Thursday April 25, 2013 6:04am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 4,923
Evertime I start to get depressed about the lack of attacking creativity with the USMNT; I think to myslef I sure wish there was a player or two that could help out the USMNT in that department.

Then I go watch some Freddy Adu and Holden highlights, and remind myself there they are.

Hopefully Holden will be with the team this summer.

And I really hope Adu becomes a consistent player with Bahia.

blaise213
San Francisco CA
Post #2
Thursday April 25, 2013 6:41am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,311
I get depressed when I see bradley and jones starting in the midfield

I get depressed when I see beckerman, edu, morrow, and beltran on the roster

I get depressed when Klinsmann plays players out of position

Then I go watch some Shawn Parker and Aron Johannsson highlights, and remind myself "What IF"

Hopefully Obama will grant Junior hoilett and Bradley johnson citizenship

And I really PRAY Adu becomes a consistent player with Bahia.

admsghs27
Post #3
Thursday April 25, 2013 7:08am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,015
Well yea we dont have the talent... and the sad part our youth players are worst now than they were the last 10/15 yrs..

dolcem
Post #4
Thursday April 25, 2013 9:14am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,034
Agree with the OP 100%. Adu is the exact player we need. Holden? The sad thing is that we consider him "creative." I'm not saying that he isn't but by other countries' standards he's a good box-to-box mid and not a creative midfielder. We are so lacking in creativity that he seems like one. I PRAY that Adu gets some PT at Bahia.

It is depressing that despite the fact that exponentially more people are involved with soccer than before (playing, watching, coaching) and that we have a well-established league and youth academies, we produce worse players than 10-15 years ago. Have we produced anyone in recent years as talented as Ramos, Reyna, O'Brien, or Donovan? If you take away the Germans our NT is WORSE than it was in 2002. Sure we're producing more decent players (the MLS is getting a lot better) our elite players aren't getting any better, and that's the most important objective of a youth system.

All of this stuff we discussed at length here: http://locker.yanks-abroad.com/?mode=topics&t...

Yeah watching the USNT can get depressing. But the current group of U-20's looks good. Maybe we'll be good in 2018. But as it was obvious as early as 2010, 2014 is not going to be a good year for the USNT. The team is in transition and probably the worst it has been since pre-2002. We have one playable attacking midfielder (Dempsey), maybe two if Donovan comes back. You can't win anything if that's the case. Too bad Klinsmann was in charge for this cycle and not the last one.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT LINEUP YOU USE IN FIFA
Alcharod
302
Post #5
Thursday April 25, 2013 1:11pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 574
Original post from dolcem

Agree with the OP 100%. Adu is the exact player we need. Holden? The sad thing is that we consider him "creative." I'm not saying that he isn't but by other countries' standards he's a good box-to-box mid and not a creative midfielder. We are so lacking in creativity that he seems like one. I PRAY that Adu gets some PT at Bahia.

It is depressing that despite the fact that exponentially more people are involved with soccer than before (playing, watching, coaching) and that we have a well-established league and youth academies, we produce worse players than 10-15 years ago. Have we produced anyone in recent years as talented as Ramos, Reyna, O'Brien, or Donovan? If you take away the Germans our NT is WORSE than it was in 2002. Sure we're producing more decent players (the MLS is getting a lot better) our elite players aren't getting any better, and that's the most important objective of a youth system.

All of this stuff we discussed at length here: http://locker.yanks-abroad.com/?mode=topics&t...

Yeah watching the USNT can get depressing. But the current group of U-20's looks good. Maybe we'll be good in 2018. But as it was obvious as early as 2010, 2014 is not going to be a good year for the USNT. The team is in transition and probably the worst it has been since pre-2002. We have one playable attacking midfielder (Dempsey), maybe two if Donovan comes back. You can't win anything if that's the case. Too bad Klinsmann was in charge for this cycle and not the last one.


Adu made the roster again this week so hopefully he gets a little more time then 10min.

Know Nothing
Post #6
Thursday April 25, 2013 3:26pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 352
Original post from dolcem

Agree with the OP 100%. Adu is the exact player we need. Holden? The sad thing is that we consider him "creative." I'm not saying that he isn't but by other countries' standards he's a good box-to-box mid and not a creative midfielder. We are so lacking in creativity that he seems like one. I PRAY that Adu gets some PT at Bahia.



How would you fit Adu into the present team structure? Do we have players astute enough to read what Adu is going to do and vice versa?

For Adu to succeed with the MNT, he will need the right players around him. In my opinion, given how Dempsey enjoys a free role, he and Adu would probably get in each others way.

I also believe he will need to work on his attitude as he tends to get easily discouraged during a match if things are not working and will disappear.

rainORshine
Post #7
Thursday April 25, 2013 4:39pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,770
if people are depressed about lack of creativity, thinking that adu and/or holden are the answers is like thinking a bottle of jack daniels is a good solution. they are equivalent solutions. id prefer the bottle of JD

for the immediate future creativity is in the hands of:
- dempsey (less and less. all he really likes to do lately is collect and shoot. or poach)
- donovan
- kljestan
- torres
- zusi

only time will tell who gets added to this list going forward. its human nature to think what you dont have (adu/holden) is better then what you do have.

kljestan, adu and holden all played about 4+ seasons in MLS.
assist totals:
- kjlestan - 35 (1 assist every 297 minutes)
- adu - 22 (1 every 400)
- holden - 14 (1 every 422)

although i am only assuming you want some goals to come from this creativity

not trying to make the argument that that the above list is good or not good, just pointing out that thinking adu/holden are improvements based on watching some youtube highlights is pure fantasy

if you want to fantasize, might as well keep it to pure fiction... that 16 y/o kid we havnt quite heard of yet,,,

richieJkulesaNY
Post #8
Thursday April 25, 2013 4:57pm

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 933
Original post from rainORshine

if people are depressed about lack of creativity, thinking that adu and/or holden are the answers is like thinking a bottle of jack daniels is a good solution. they are equivalent solutions. id prefer the bottle of JD

for the immediate future creativity is in the hands of:
- dempsey (less and less. all he really likes to do lately is collect and shoot. or poach)
- donovan
- kljestan
- torres
- zusi

only time will tell who gets added to this list going forward. its human nature to think what you dont have (adu/holden) is better then what you do have.

kljestan, adu and holden all played about 4+ seasons in MLS.
assist totals:
- kjlestan - 35 (1 assist every 297 minutes)
- adu - 22 (1 every 400)
- holden - 14 (1 every 422)

although i am only assuming you want some goals to come from this creativity

not trying to make the argument that that the above list is good or not good, just pointing out that thinking adu/holden are improvements based on watching some youtube highlights is pure fantasy

if you want to fantasize, might as well keep it to pure fiction... that 16 y/o kid we havnt quite heard of yet,,,


You pay attention to statistics way too much. I agree with you about Holden, but Adu is without a doubt more of a playmaker/creative type than any of above mentioned players. It really is a simple matter of just watching these guys play.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #9
Thursday April 25, 2013 5:14pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 4,923
Original post from rainORshine

if people are depressed about lack of creativity, thinking that adu and/or holden are the answers is like thinking a bottle of jack daniels is a good solution. they are equivalent solutions. id prefer the bottle of JD

for the immediate future creativity is in the hands of:
- dempsey (less and less. all he really likes to do lately is collect and shoot. or poach)
- donovan
- kljestan
- torres
- zusi

only time will tell who gets added to this list going forward. its human nature to think what you dont have (adu/holden) is better then what you do have.

kljestan, adu and holden all played about 4+ seasons in MLS.
assist totals:
- kjlestan - 35 (1 assist every 297 minutes)
- adu - 22 (1 every 400)
- holden - 14 (1 every 422)

although i am only assuming you want some goals to come from this creativity

not trying to make the argument that that the above list is good or not good, just pointing out that thinking adu/holden are improvements based on watching some youtube highlights is pure fantasy

if you want to fantasize, might as well keep it to pure fiction... that 16 y/o kid we havnt quite heard of yet,,,


God I knew you would preach about Kljestan.

Kljestan has 3 assists and 4 goals in 39 appearances for the USMNT.

Holden has 3 assists and 3 golas in 17 appearances for the USMNT.

Adu has 2 assists and 2 goals in 17 appearances for the USMNT.

Kljestan has doubled the appearances, but has only registered one more assist than Adu, and one more goal than Holden. Yep Kljestan is a creative genius. Oh and Adu is 23 while Kljestan is 27.

Club statistics are rendered moot when talking about the USMNT.

Bshredder
Post #10
Thursday April 25, 2013 5:49pm

Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts: 1,459
Just as an FYI

Since 2008, whenever Sacha Kljestan has been in the starting lineup, the USMNT has 12 wins and 3 losses (losses coming against Honduras, Spain, & Brazil)

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #11
Thursday April 25, 2013 5:52pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 4,923
Thats cool. I have nothing against Kljestan. I think he is a very good bench option.

But it's about creative attacking soccer being produced.

Let me know if the goal ratio is up with Kljestan in the starting 11 versus when he is not then we have something to talk about.

Mojofc
Post #12
Thursday April 25, 2013 6:04pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 673
From 2tone 'Kljestan has 3 assists and 4 goals in 39 appearances for the USMNT.'

Now lets analyze those goals. 3/4 were against a joke of a team that showed they did not want to be on the field, including which 1 was a PK. Other 1/4 were against El Salvador.

Kljestan had 3 assists over these 39 games. 2/3 were against CUBA back in 2008. Wow, in a game where we won 6-1.

So now over 36 games he had 0 goals - 1 assist if you exclude those 3 games; not fair at all, I realize this. His other games didn't prove anything though, he is rarely a player after a game and you were happy he was on the pitch. My opinion though..

Can't seem to find the other assist too quickly, so I'm going to stop.

Throwing out stats doesn't prove anything Rain, it's a matter of opinion to tell if a player is better than another. Direct assists don't necessarily prove a player is 'all creative'. Ability to bring the ball and move the ball forward is just as important. Also just as important is the ability to hold the ball and pass the ball under pressure in offensive situations. Kljestan does not hold the ball well under pressure and often times gives the ball up, no one can challenge that with a straight face.

Unless Kljestan has transformed into a player he was not in the past... If he has, awesome, I'd be happy. I'll take a lot of people over the old Kljestan, including a new Kljestan that does not play like he used to play.

It's what I've witnessed anyways, I don't have stats to back that up, I don't need them. People who are on these forums I assume watch every single game. Simple memory is my proof. Others can back me up on that.
Rain, rain, go away Come again another day - USMNT, MUFC
dolcem
Post #13
Thursday April 25, 2013 6:07pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,034
Mojofc: Agree completely. Although I would like to see Klejstan given another chance because of good performance at the club level.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT LINEUP YOU USE IN FIFA
rainORshine
Post #14
Thursday April 25, 2013 6:26pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,770
i chose SK simply because he adu and holden all spent roughly the same amount of time in MLS - so apples to apples

zusi actually tops them all with an assist every 250 minutes for his career (29 total) - also over 4+ seasons.

so, if you dont like the kljestan comparison.

i dont think that is quite comparable because kljestan was basically doing at 21/22 what zusi is now doing at 25/26 - so id still give edge to kljestan

ok, back to the adu / holden youtube highlights!

Lykou11601
Post #15
Thursday April 25, 2013 6:41pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 122
Stats don't have a direct correlation to a player's influence rain. Even if you are looking at the stats, you have to look at the big picture. MLS has substantially improved in the past several years. For Zusi to do that now is different than Kljestan doing it years ago. Not to mention, Holden and Adu have gotten attention from bigger clubs than Zusi or Kljestan. Sure Holden isn't a creative midfielder per say, but he is more attack minded than Bradley or Jones.

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