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acahmed14
Post #31
Wednesday April 24, 2013 1:17am

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 33
Original post from Lilshmike

Nice run considering the poor service. Not saying anything about his turn and run, but the defending on that goal was atrocious. Absolutely terrible. Not the best example of a quality goal...


thats my point though all of his goals the defense looked awful. At what point is it him making them look awful and him not getting lucky with poor defending ?

rainORshine
Post #32
Wednesday April 24, 2013 1:34am

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,783
Original post from acahmed14

thats my point though all of his goals the defense looked awful. At what point is it him making them look awful and him not getting lucky with poor defending ?


i think he already answered that. generally one full season of being near the top of the MLS scoring charts. his 8 last season does not cut it but with gold cup coming up it will probably be fair, in this case, to take 2nd half of last season and first half of this season

he is not getting called in for may/june. pre gold cup will be a fine time to make a serious assessment

Bshredder
Post #33
Wednesday April 24, 2013 1:44am

Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts: 1,459
Boyd was capped before making a pro appearance.

13 games isn't a small sample for a 20 year old that's highly regarded

I don't usually trust coefficient rankings at all. I go by my own gut of watching games, following players, and talking players.

My gut on MLS vs Denmark is that Copenhagen is significantly better than any MLS team. I don't think Nordsjaelland (Superliga #2) would win the MLS Cup or Supporters Shield but they would be among the better teams. Bad teams in either league would struggle no matter what

Europa league is a little overrated at the early stages

acahmed14
Post #34
Wednesday April 24, 2013 2:02am

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 33
im not calling for him to be called up for qualifiers. but i think he should get called in for the gold cup. 10 goals in 13 games is something agudelo hasnt done yet at the same age.

rainORshine
Post #35
Wednesday April 24, 2013 2:42am

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,783
hmm, well coefficients are just based on how teams from each league do against each other in european competition. and Austria comes in currently basically even with Denmark, which it seems like you feel is roughly even with MLS. seems like splitting hairs a bit to say MLS and Denmark are better than Austria,,,

as for europa im thinking about teams that qualify for group stage

currently both have 4 teams in UEFA top 150

Denmark
- copenhagen - 45
- aalborg - 96
- nordsjaelland - 136
- odense - 137

Austria
- salzburg - 75
- A. vienna - 114
- rapid - 133
- sturm graz - 142

i think strength of copenhagen gives the slight advantage to denmark, but from there, its pretty much even steven

if i had to choose i would want a player at a top 4 team in austria and playing europa group stages (or at least a chance) than MLS and i dont think that should be a controversial opinion. but i think i would be willing to concede MLS is more or less on par with austian bundesliga,,,

as far as boyd's season with dortmunds reserves i think it is worth noting that his 20 goals in 32 games helped the team win 4th division and promotion to 3rd. and i do think that season counts for something

Lilshmike
Post #36
Wednesday April 24, 2013 4:09pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 511
Original post from rainORshine

i think he already answered that. generally one full season of being near the top of the MLS scoring charts...


you got it

Lilshmike
Post #37
Wednesday April 24, 2013 4:21pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 511
Original post from Bshredder

Here are the facts guys

Boyd is only in his first professional season. What he did at Dortmundis not professional. It's Regionaliga and not considered professional by anyone.
...



If you play on the reserves for any pro team you receive a salary. In Europe, when you play on an academy, you sign an academy contract and receive a salary. If you receive a salary to play, then you are getting paid to play. If you are getting paid to play, then that makes you a professional.

Regardless of the level of play, the 3rd and 4th tiers of the German professional soccer system are still, professional soccer.

Boyd at Hertha BSC and Borussia Dortmund = Professional

Even the conference league in England is a professional league. Although players only get like $80 a game, it is still professional league. It may have a level of play that is terrible, but it is still professional.

All I am saying is that whether you accept it or not, or are basing this off of the quality and level of play or not, Terrence Boyd was, and has been, a professional soccer player since 2009

dstones77
Hagerstown, MD
Post #38
Wednesday April 24, 2013 4:24pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 216
Boyd's overall pottential is better than Mcinerney.. which is why he's had the call ups. Mcinerney has a great head on his shoulders and is scoring at will. There will most likely be a large training camp for the summer and I don't see why you'd leave him out of at least that. At least for the experience of being in a USMNT camp. There's a pottential the two will play together as forwards during the GC.. I'd rather see Mcinerney than stupid Wondo or cooper or some other old guy..

Lilshmike
Post #39
Wednesday April 24, 2013 4:26pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 511
I tried to find a definition, but this is the best thing that I could find

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professional_ath...

The first line on the wiki page - Professional sports, as opposed to amateur sports, are sports in which athletes receive payment for their performance

I rest my case

Lilshmike
Post #40
Wednesday April 24, 2013 4:33pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 511
Original post from dstones77

Boyd's overall pottential is better than Mcinerney.. which is why he's had the call ups. Mcinerney has a great head on his shoulders and is scoring at will. There will most likely be a large training camp for the summer and I don't see why you'd leave him out of at least that. At least for the experience of being in a USMNT camp. There's a pottential the two will play together as forwards during the GC.. I'd rather see Mcinerney than stupid Wondo or cooper or some other old guy..


I actually dont mind Cooper. I think that, given he is placed in the correct system, he would can be pretty good. I am good on Wondolowski though. He has had his chances with the USMNT and have blown them every time.

I want Boyd up top during the GC. His strike partner? Idk. I wouldnt be mad if McInerny was out there, but I just dont think he has done enough to deserve a call up JUST YET.

The forwards for the GC will prob be a bit of a surprise. I hear Robbie Findley has gotten on the score sheet this season...

Bshredder
Post #41
Wednesday April 24, 2013 5:20pm

Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts: 1,459
Original post from Lilshmike

If you play on the reserves for any pro team you receive a salary. In Europe, when you play on an academy, you sign an academy contract and receive a salary. If you receive a salary to play, then you are getting paid to play. If you are getting paid to play, then that makes you a professional.

Regardless of the level of play, the 3rd and 4th tiers of the German professional soccer system are still, professional soccer.

Boyd at Hertha BSC and Borussia Dortmund = Professional

Even the conference league in England is a professional league. Although players only get like $80 a game, it is still professional league. It may have a level of play that is terrible, but it is still professional.


In the Regionalliga, clubs do not need a "professional license" as required by the DFB. If a team gets promoted to the 3.Liga they will need to obtain a professional license. The 3.Liga is the lowest professional league in Germany as defined by the DFB.

This doesn't mean that players in the Regionalliga can't receive compensation. But it's not a professional league in that some teams in the league can be completely amateur, or semi-pro.

So the Regionalliga is not professional soccer given that it's not a requirement that all players/teams are professional.

Lilshmike
Post #42
Wednesday April 24, 2013 6:08pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 511
I will restate.

- Terrence Boyd played on the reserves for Hertha BSC and Borussia Dortmund.

- If you play on a reserve team, you get a salary. Terrence Boyd was getting a salary by being on their reserve teams.

- If you receive a salary, that means that you are getting paid. Terrence Boyd was getting paid for playing on those teams.

- If you are receiving payment to play, that makes you a professional athlete. Terrence Boyd was a professional soccer player that was playing on a professional team filled with other players that were getting paid to play.

Because of this, Terrence Boyd has been a professional ever since he first signed (and played) for a reserve team. That was in 2009. Terrence Boyd has been a professional since 2009.

He was playing for professional teams. As a result, any appearance that he made with those teams, regardless of the competition, is a professional game because he was receiving compensation in exchange for his athletic services.

....

For example, the FA Cup has semi-pro and amateur teams that play in it AS WELL as top professional teams. Does this mean that if Arsenal play Macclesfield Town in the FA Cup then it is not a professional game? No. It is still professional, regardless of the competition if you are getting paid to play.

I agree that the level of competition he was facing was terrible and not up to par with the MLS, but that doesnt change the fact that he was in fact a professional and those games were professional games.

The leagues may not have been "professional", but when a professional team is playing in that league, every game FOR THE PLAYERS ON THAT TEAM is a professional game since they are getting paid

Bshredder
Post #43
Wednesday April 24, 2013 8:22pm

Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts: 1,459
This is a silly debate. I'll just end it like this.

Terrence Boyd did not consider himself to be a pro playing for Dortmund's reserve team in the Regionalliga. He told several media that it was his goal to earn a pro contract with Dortmund but it didn't happen. He also frequently spoke of getting his first cap before his first pro appearance.

"Pro-contracts" are a term of art in Germany and not thought of the same way they are here. It means a contract with a team in a professional league. Boyd's contract was actually with Dortmund II.

When a team gets promoted out of the Regionalliga and into the 3.Liga, all sorts of new terms need to go into effect for the contract to be valid in a professional league run by the DFB (the regionalliga leagues are run by states, not the DFB). It's all technical.

blaise213
San Francisco CA
Post #44
Wednesday April 24, 2013 8:51pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,366
This is a silly debate. I'll just end it like this.

Terence Boyd > Jack Bert n Ernie

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