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recycledhumans
DFWTX
Post #331
Wednesday August 19, 2015 8:59pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,467
Original post from USAGunner

Trust me I am ALWAYS on board with American's playing together. It has been a talking point of mine for over a year. But I just don't think playing on the reserves together does either much good for their career. Sure I think it could help in the short term for the Olympic Qualifying, but not long term.

Personally I think right now with where they are at developmentally BOTH would be better served somewhere where they are are playing regularly in the first team. Maybe Fulham can Loan Hyndman to Charlton?


Another good point, though my "long run" was thinking more about after the Olympics where we would see that partnership and the time they spent together bearing fruit, thereby increasing exponentially their marketability across Europe and positioning them for moves to different teams and/or raise their stock with their current teams enough to get into the conversation for starting spots.

I do agree that everyone involved (Herzog included) would be better served by both of those guys playing on the same team where they'd both be getting significant minutes as well as being able to develop their partnership. Until that becomes a possibility though, I think getting their partnership solidified is more important than each getting minutes with different teams playing different systems against differing levels of competition.

The whole debate we're having boils down to a question of which you'd prefer of your young players: Reaching the actualization of their individual potential (speed, strength, ball skills) or developing their ability to play more as a team (vision, passing, defending as a unit).

For me, I'm more in favor of the latter at this stage in their career. The US has always been a team with so-so players that could play together very well, creating a whole much greater than the sum of its parts. The individual skill level of players coming up is unquestionably at the highest its ever been, so developing that individual skill set once these players have reached a professional level is (again, my opinion) less important than making sure that, skilled as these youngsters might be, they can work together and compete against any level of competition available. This was the biggest failing of the U23 team that failed to qualify last cycle. Lots of skilled players, no team cohesion.

hamsamwich
Post #332
Wednesday August 19, 2015 10:24pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,468
It would be a nice story if GZ could do the Olympic qualifying-- but I'm not sure if that's already been looked at for the older, more experienced players. He still has a full year to go before the actual Olympics start in which to grow. Good luck to him at Rangers- where 3rd place was good last year, this season they will be expecting to return to the Scottish top flight. This is the perfect move for GZ if you ask me.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #333
Thursday August 20, 2015 1:47pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,307
Well for most USA prospects I would probably agree with you to a point recycled. But being I have other motivation (IE I am an Arsenal fan) I want him to develop and become as good of a player as possible...

Also being that JK wants to play an Arsenal style attack (lot of 1-2 passing, quick build up, defenders who can get in on the attack and play a high-line, etc) I think in this specific incident Zelalem developing as much as he can under Wenger's ideal would be great for the USMNT. It will be a pretty seemless transition for Zelalem going from Arsenal to the USMNT.

Also with Warburton at Rangers, that's what he wants to play too. Think that is why Wenger wants him there. They play a good style, Warburton will play young players and build them up, they have a LOT of fans that will acclimate Zelalem to professional pressure, etc.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/2015...
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #334
Thursday August 20, 2015 6:34pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 2,894
As long as he gets games. Games are most important.

snipes87
Cleveland, Ohio
Post #335
Friday August 21, 2015 12:11am

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 843
Americans playing together on the same club team is overrated. Different tactics, formations, etc. Bradley and Jozy play together and that hasn't done either of them any good.
If you don't love it, leave it, USA #1
TheTruth
Post #336
Friday August 21, 2015 3:36am

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 950
+1

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #337
Friday August 21, 2015 1:37pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,307
Original post from snipes87

Americans playing together on the same club team is overrated. Different tactics, formations, etc. Bradley and Jozy play together and that hasn't done either of them any good.


They have played together for half a season...What do you think just because they are on the same team that automatically they are going to form a good combo?

Lets also remember that Jozy has missed a good part of the season with injuries/Gold Cup, as has Bradley. They have played only 13 games together so far. And the first few of those Toronto was still figuring out it's lineup. They have only played 3 games in what is now the prefered line-up for Toronto (which also happens to be what JK likes with Bradley as the CAM and Giovinco and Altidore as the 2 Strikers (before they had Giovinco as the Cam with Bradley in a deeper role with Findley and Altidore as the FWs.

So 3 games is enough? Give them at least a full season together to strike up a bond...
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
hamsamwich
Post #338
Friday August 21, 2015 1:47pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,468
@usaG-- Bradley and altidore have played together plenty of times, and are USA soccers version of "best friends" now that Landon retired and Beasley is by himself. Nobody knows each other's game like "Mikey and Jozy" do. ***in a way, USA fans hope for a new buddy, buddy thing with Emerson and Gedion. Two talented kids whose game seems to complement the other. From that perspective it would have been nice.
@Ekneezy-- he's gonna get games. Have you seen some of the competition in the Scottish 2nd division?? Warburton played kids at Brentford last year, and he will do it again at Rangers.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #339
Friday August 21, 2015 6:54pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,307
hamsamwich...Sure they have played lots of USMNT games together. But that is peanuts compared to training for 10 months with a player and playing games with them week in and week out. Not just a week of training here and there and a couple games then nothing for over a month.

Surely you see the difference.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
hamsamwich
Post #340
Friday August 21, 2015 7:46pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,468
Of course. But I'm saying these guys have played together and talked soccer on and off for years. Even Bradley has said words to that effect: I know Jozy's game...

The two kids have played like 5 games together.

The USMNT, because of it's moving parts/ players in and out of "form"/ sometimes odd Concacaf scheduling, is always going to be a rotational deal, with like what now, 40 players in Jurgens pool? Possibly 41, if we are including young GZ. These are the tasks for Jurgen: planning for the future, while winning now- with continuity in the process. Not so easy.

snipes87
Cleveland, Ohio
Post #341
Saturday August 22, 2015 12:06am

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 843
Original post from USAGunner

They have played together for half a season...What do you think just because they are on the same team that automatically they are going to form a good combo?

Lets also remember that Jozy has missed a good part of the season with injuries/Gold Cup, as has Bradley. They have played only 13 games together so far. And the first few of those Toronto was still figuring out it's lineup. They have only played 3 games in what is now the prefered line-up for Toronto (which also happens to be what JK likes with Bradley as the CAM and Giovinco and Altidore as the 2 Strikers (before they had Giovinco as the Cam with Bradley in a deeper role with Findley and Altidore as the FWs.

So 3 games is enough? Give them at least a full season together to strike up a bond...


Right. Yeah, I'm sure it will get better.. Message me in a year. I'll have this screen shot saved.
If you don't love it, leave it, USA #1
skangles
DC
Post #342
Sunday August 23, 2015 9:21pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,169
Done deal, Zelalem to Gers on loan until January with an option to extend the loan.

http://m.bbc.com/sport/football/33981028

chillguy1992
Post #343
Monday August 24, 2015 4:07am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,098
Not bad deal I thought it would be a year long loan but I am guessing 6 months is done just in case he doesnt get playing time. Its a good deal for him and gives him the chance to adapt to a much more physical competetion then he is used 2.

USAGunner
West Palm Beach
Post #344
Monday August 24, 2015 1:18pm

Joined Jul 2013
Total Posts: 1,307
I have noticed Wenger likes to do 6 month deals with guys that could potentially get into the first team. Not always the case (and having seen Zelalem in the U-20, i definitely don't think it's the case, especially with Arsenal's crowded mid-field), however it is probably a good sign.
www.westpalmbeachchurchofchrist.com
MSantoine
Post #345
Monday August 24, 2015 5:01pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,706
6 months deal with option to extend (not buy, extend) make a lot of sense. As mentioned above if he doesnt get minutes Arsenal can bring him back to their youth team. Or if he explodes/they get injuries they can bring him back. If its working out as expected they extend him through the season. Really no down side in this type of loan

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