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dstones77
Hagerstown, MD
Post #16
Monday April 8, 2013 9:38pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 216
oh you're completely right about LD and Duece.. they serve no purpose out that wide it almsot would be a 4-3-2-1 which still doesn't adress the width issue.. With our players we're never going to be able to break teams down through the middle. I completely agree a 3-5-2 is a offensive formation that gives us the best chance to get behind defenders and get the ball to finishers. Overlapping runs from Fab and Chandler who are at their best playing LWB and RWB respectively.

richieJkulesaNY
Post #17
Monday April 8, 2013 10:54pm

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 920
You guys are too focused on formations. When i see a formation, to me, thats how a team should look when they dont have the ball. In todays game, when the best teams have the ball, players arent glued to their actual position and responsibility. The game is very fluid. But those freedoms also come with teams that can hold on to the ball for long stretches at a time.

What central midfield are you watching that you guys think we could pull something like a 3-5-2 off? And don't tell me we need to push guys like Kljestan or Torres up the field because they don't excel there. For most of our CMs, their tendencies are to come back to the ball and get behind it. Plus, our CBs are way too slow. We would get picked apart.

When we have a team that can orchestrate 15-20 passes at a stretch, thats when our fullbacks can become more of an influence on our attack. Until then, they'll have to pick and choose their runs.

Lykou11601
Post #18
Monday April 8, 2013 11:29pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 122
I get the basis of what you're saying on the formation not being strict. But it still is essential. If it wasn't, coaches wouldn't receive praise for tactical formations.

I'm with rain on this one. Look at all of our games under Klinsmann. Who have produced the most offensively? Fabian and Dempsey are the stand outs. Altidore has been active, but has not been able to produce numbers so much. Bradley has had flashes where I really thought he was a lock at cm. Think about our friendly vs Brazil. That is pretty much as high the talent will be against any national team. Bradley was finding passes that I had no idea any US player could. His ball to Fabian lead to our only goal. The 5 back makes sense for a few reasons.

1) Dempsey and Donovan have supplied width in the past. Perhaps Landon can still do it but Deuce is done. He always goes to the middle and leaves one side of the field completely empty. See his games for Tottenham. When he plays on the left, assou-ekotto is left alone on the wing. These two guys are still great players (our best) and should be positioned where they'll give us the best shift.
2) There is no one ready to take up that mantle for the wings. Rain got it right. Shea isn't dressing and everyone else is either too young or just not good enough.
3) For me, one of our most dangerous players going forward is Fabian Johnson. Putting him at that LWB position would utilize his skill to get forward. Chandler or Cherundolo would do well on the other side too.

Reasons it wouldn't work...
Our CB's are quite slow. Other than Cameron, the other CB's with a little pace are still unproven options. What would we do? Gonzo Boca Cam? Too slow. I would be willing to try it out in the friendly and see how it looks though. If we find that Fabian and Chandler have to back track too much and don't have the energy to add to the wings, then we know it failed. But at least we'll actually know.

rainORshine
Post #19
Tuesday April 9, 2013 5:03am

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,770
Original post from richieJkulesaNY

You guys are too focused on formations. When i see a formation, to me, thats how a team should look when they dont have the ball. In todays game, when the best teams have the ball, players arent glued to their actual position and responsibility. The game is very fluid. But those freedoms also come with teams that can hold on to the ball for long stretches at a time.

What central midfield are you watching that you guys think we could pull something like a 3-5-2 off? And don't tell me we need to push guys like Kljestan or Torres up the field because they don't excel there. For most of our CMs, their tendencies are to come back to the ball and get behind it. Plus, our CBs are way too slow. We would get picked apart.

When we have a team that can orchestrate 15-20 passes at a stretch, thats when our fullbacks can become more of an influence on our attack. Until then, they'll have to pick and choose their runs.


yes - if you are concerned primarily about possession, then you could add kljestan or torres to the midfield. not pushed up but in a central deep-lying role, flanked by bradley and jones

are you suggesting you think the current set-up is the best fit? who would you have in the wide MF positions?

recycledhumans
DFWTX
Post #20
Tuesday April 9, 2013 3:59pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,103
When I talk about formations, it's mostly about player roles and their off-the-ball movement, rather than a mandated position on the field. I've always advocated a two striker system for this reason, it's much easier to find that killer through ball when you've got two strikers opening up space in the backline.

Also, with our current outside back situation, wouldn't experimenting with this sort of formation be justified, if not called for?

Lykou11601
Post #21
Friday May 10, 2013 6:53pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 122
Altidore hasn't scored for US like at AZ because 1) lack of service and 2) isolation on top. Dempsey's versatility has become a problem and I believe he is mis cast as CAM and doesn't have the distribution qualities to make a good number 10. Therefore, we put Dempsey and Altidore up to in a 5-3-2 formation. That could kill two birds with one stone. I would like something like this:

Altidore Dempsey

Jones Bradley Donovan

Johnson Chandler
Besler-Gonzo--Cam

rainORshine
Post #22
Thursday June 6, 2013 5:20pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,770
more than ever, this roster sets up for a 3-5-2.

- central defense is frail
- brad evans is not an international caliber player
- for me, zusi does not cut it on wing. i think he is a sub at best
- beasley has established himself as a very good back-up wing-back option

------------altidore-----------
-----------dempsey-----------
--------bradley---jones---------
beasley------kljestan--------fabian
-----besler-*goodson*-cameron----

- id have boca in center, but JK has decided not to invite his best CB option
- besler and cameron are both naturals for those outside CB roles
- i have no doubt fabian could deputize on the right in a pinch
- if you dont like kljestan, then insert your favorite option to complement bradley/jones. nobody (in their right mind) thinks we are at our best without both bradley and jones. sacha getting 1 game without bradley in 4-4-2 is hardly putting him a position succeed. that said i would take zusi in a central CAM role over playing him on a wing in current set-up

of course we can qualify for WC out of CONCACAF in ANY formation, with ANY coach and ANY tactics

the point is maximizing potential and i dont see happening with zusi on a wing, beasley or castillo in a pure LB role, and not sure i see it with a fading LD on a wing, either

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #23
Thursday June 6, 2013 5:39pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 969
Boca is no longer the best CB. If we were going to try the 3-5-2, it would have been during the friendlies.

rainORshine
Post #24
Thursday June 6, 2013 5:51pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,770
Original post from Fraser31

Boca is no longer the best CB. If we were going to try the 3-5-2, it would have been during the friendlies.


who is our best CB?

JKs biggest failure in friendlies and over last several months has been to not look at alternative formations.

question for everyone:
what is plan B if either bradley or jones is injured or suspended?

if you already have 3 in central midfield it is much easier to adjust if you have to replace bradley or jones as you already have another guy who is a regular in those spots. as it is now we are just completely f$cked if we lose one of those guys. no, not in CONCACAF, but in WC, yes completely screwed

its an absolute recipe for disaster

you cant ask kljestan or anyone else to just step in completely out of the blue (as in belgium game) and expect a positive outcome

again, you can get by in CONCACAF, but not against WC competition

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #25
Thursday June 6, 2013 6:05pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 4,840
Lol still putting Kljestan in a starting line-up. Man that makes me laugh everytime I see it.

SoccerGod
Clouds, Heaven
Post #26
Thursday June 6, 2013 6:17pm

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 84
Original post from rainORshine

who is our best CB?

JKs biggest failure in friendlies and over last several months has been to not look at alternative formations.

question for everyone:
what is plan B if either bradley or jones is injured or suspended?

if you already have 3 in central midfield it is much easier to adjust if you have to replace bradley or jones as you already have another guy who is a regular in those spots. as it is now we are just completely f$cked if we lose one of those guys. no, not in CONCACAF, but in WC, yes completely screwed

its an absolute recipe for disaster

you cant ask kljestan or anyone else to just step in completely out of the blue (as in belgium game) and expect a positive outcome

again, you can get by in CONCACAF, but not against WC competition


Well I guess if we can't just put someone in out of the blue as you say, then if something does happen to Jones or Bradley we should put in Beckerman. Because by your own logic we can't put Kljestan in, even though he's your man crush.
And get off the 3-5-2. It will never happen, which is a good thing.
For I am creator of all things soccer. Seek repentance or just beat Mexico, either will get you in up here.
kicksNgiggles10
Birmingham
Post #27
Thursday June 6, 2013 6:37pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 331
Original post from rainORshine

question for everyone:
what is plan B if either bradley or jones is injured or suspended?

if you already have 3 in central midfield it is much easier to adjust if you have to replace bradley or jones as you already have another guy who is a regular in those spots. as it is now we are just completely f$cked if we lose one of those guys. no, not in CONCACAF, but in WC, yes completely screwed

its an absolute recipe for disaster

you cant ask kljestan or anyone else to just step in completely out of the blue (as in belgium game) and expect a positive outcome

again, you can get by in CONCACAF, but not against WC competition


I'd expect Stu to be 90 mins fit by then.
We are going to Brazil
rainORshine
Post #28
Thursday June 6, 2013 6:56pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,770
Original post from SoccerGod

Well I guess if we can't just put someone in out of the blue as you say, then if something does happen to Jones or Bradley we should put in Beckerman. Because by your own logic we can't put Kljestan in, even though he's your man crush.
And get off the 3-5-2. It will never happen, which is a good thing.


i dont think you can put ANYONE in at this point and expect good outcome. beckerman has not played in ages - he would not be a good option either

do you think brad evans should play? man crush? how bout zusi? do you have a man crush on him?

what is the opposition to a 3-5-2? are you saying you are now on board with JK?

richieJkulesaNY
Post #29
Thursday June 6, 2013 7:57pm

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 920
Original post from rainORshine

who is our best CB?

JKs biggest failure in friendlies and over last several months has been to not look at alternative formations.



We have yet to excel in one formation yet, let alone have time to worry about others. And with the personnel we have, this 4-2-3-1 is without a doubt the best way to go.

SoccerGod
Clouds, Heaven
Post #30
Thursday June 6, 2013 8:57pm

Joined Apr 2013
Total Posts: 84
Original post from rainORshine

i dont think you can put ANYONE in at this point and expect good outcome. beckerman has not played in ages - he would not be a good option either

do you think brad evans should play? man crush? how bout zusi? do you have a man crush on him?

what is the opposition to a 3-5-2? are you saying you are now on board with JK?


Well 3-5-2 is for teams that can posses the ball extremely well. At our best of times we cannot keep it for long enough stretches to incorporate what would be two wing backs without them going back and forth. I guess you could do it with F Johnson and Chandler at those places but I can't see anyone else (besides Yedlin in a few years) being able to do it if either if then are out. It would only work at home games agaisnt the Panama/ costa rica type teams because that's the only games we would have the ball enough.

And no I think all the German game did was show that Evans could play there if we were desperate for a a right back since our two first choice right backs are injured.

If Donavan isnt in the team then yes I like Zusi out there. Plus he does have lovely hair.

And finally I think Holden is a few games away from jumping back over Kljestan in the pecking order. I wanted Kljestan to do good myself but unfortunately he did himself no favors in the last few games with the NT (and even more so against Belgium). This concludes for my response to your questions rainORshine. Ask me more if you'd like.
For I am creator of all things soccer. Seek repentance or just beat Mexico, either will get you in up here.
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