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blaise213
San Francisco CA
Post #16
Thursday April 18, 2013 12:34am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,372
A midfield of Jones - Bradley - kljestan ??? Dear god NO

dstones77
Hagerstown, MD
Post #17
Thursday April 18, 2013 1:54pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 216
Original post from rainORshine

a golaso from 20+ yards out, no less. leads yanks abroad in assists and can throw in some saucy goals - what does the guy have to do just to get a legit look at CM?

ill revise my statement from above and say that a 4-3-3 (or 3-5-2) with some sort of triangle involving bradley, kljestan, jones in CM is the way to go.

the fact that the best offensive-minded CM of his generation has not been given a solitary start by JK is mind-boggling (for me it is unforgivable)


Oh helllllll no that midfield. you're right about the fact with him he doesn't work in our system. and if he were to get looks it needs to be in the formations I agree. but i still don't like him. but then again I'll admit I've only ever watched him suck while wearing a USA jersey. Right now I'd rather have COB, Mix, or Holden for that matter.

MSantoine
Post #18
Thursday April 18, 2013 2:36pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,205
With Bradley all but guarenteed to be out vs Belgium I think that opens up Sacha to have a chance (at least 45') to play with Jones. No shame in being our 5th mf. Having a good backup that keeps the guys in front of him on their toes is never a bad thing and injuries can pop up at any time.

dstones77
Hagerstown, MD
Post #19
Thursday April 18, 2013 3:09pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 216
Okay, yes I agree there. He should be in camps all summer guaranteed.

rainORshine
Post #20
Thursday April 18, 2013 3:11pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,783
dont really understand the violent opposition to a bradley/kljestan/jones midfield - allowing 3 best attacking players to primarily attack in 4-3-3 or johnson/chandler to support wings in 3-5-2.

Roma is actually a good example of a team that uses a similar CM trio

generally, they look something like (with a couple others rotating into these spots):

---bradley---pjanic---
------de rossi------

...leaving the likes of totti, lamela, osvaldo, etc. to attack with minimal defensive responsibilities,,,

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #21
Thursday April 18, 2013 3:34pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,012
Original post from rainORshine

dont really understand the violent opposition to a bradley/kljestan/jones midfield - allowing 3 best attacking players to primarily attack in 4-3-3 or johnson/chandler to support wings in 3-5-2.

Roma is actually a good example of a team that uses a similar CM trio

generally, they look something like (with a couple others rotating into these spots):

--bradley--pjanic--
---de rossi---

...leaving the likes of totti, lamela, osvaldo, etc. to attack with minimal defensive responsibilities,,,


I guess my only problem would be not that its a bad idea to have the three in the middle, it's that we don't have the attackers that are skilled enough to connect with these players, or these players just aren't connecting with our attackers. As we have all said, our biggest problem is connecting our midfield with our attack, and I don't know what the problem is. Formation? Coaching? Personnel? I'm willing to try anything at this point. Even the 3-5-2, assuming those three aforementioned players can play solid defensively.

rainORshine
Post #22
Thursday April 18, 2013 3:54pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,783
Original post from Fraser31

I guess my only problem would be not that its a bad idea to have the three in the middle, it's that we don't have the attackers that are skilled enough to connect with these players, or these players just aren't connecting with our attackers. As we have all said, our biggest problem is connecting our midfield with our attack, and I don't know what the problem is. Formation? Coaching? Personnel? I'm willing to try anything at this point. Even the 3-5-2, assuming those three aforementioned players can play solid defensively.


for me, basically a lot of bad ideas coming from JK:
1) CM trio - 3 of bradley, jones, edu, beckerman, williams - 8 times
2) starting kyle beckerman - 8 times
3) forcing players into wide MF positions (williams, torres, kljestan, EJ, gomez...) - MANY TIMES

look no further than first 3 games of hex
honduras - williams joins bradley and jones in CM = BAD IDEA
CR/Mex - gomez/zusi as wide mids = BAD IDEA

i would honestly be hard pressed to find 1 line-up in 25 games that was a good idea,,,

richieJkulesaNY
Post #23
Thursday April 18, 2013 4:47pm

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 951
Original post from rainORshine

dont really understand the violent opposition to a bradley/kljestan/jones midfield - allowing 3 best attacking players to primarily attack in 4-3-3 or johnson/chandler to support wings in 3-5-2.

Roma is actually a good example of a team that uses a similar CM trio

generally, they look something like (with a couple others rotating into these spots):

-bradley-pjanic-
--de rossi--

...leaving the likes of totti, lamela, osvaldo, etc. to attack with minimal defensive responsibilities,,,


Because Kljestan likes to do the same things Bradley and Jones like to do. Kljestan is mroe like Bradley, though. Their natural tendencies are to come back to the ball, especially Bradley and Kljestan, they are best at the pivot role. If all three of those guys are on the field, we're going to look more like a 4-3-0-3, and have much of the same problems as we've seen in the past.

I believe the 4-2-3-1 is our best bet going forward, but we still need an actual LW. Looks like Beasley wants it based on his play this year.

dolcem
Post #24
Thursday April 18, 2013 4:55pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
Original post from rainORshine

a golaso from 20+ yards out, no less. leads yanks abroad in assists and can throw in some saucy goals - what does the guy have to do just to get a legit look at CM?

ill revise my statement from above and say that a 4-3-3 (or 3-5-2) with some sort of triangle involving bradley, kljestan, jones in CM is the way to go.

the fact that the best offensive-minded CM of his generation has not been given a solitary start by JK is mind-boggling (for me it is unforgivable)


This is ridiculous. No player aside from Dempsey is so important to this team that it's "unforgivable" if he doesn't start. Even Howard, Altidore, Bradley, and Cherundolo aren't 'untouchables' (we have other capable players at their positions).

And let's not forget that we're talking about Sacha Klejstan, who is not a young player but rather someone who has been in our player pool for awhile and has never shown much with the NT and never made it out of the Belgian league.

I'd take Torres over Klejstan, and maybe Diskerud or even Feilhaber as well (I'd trust someone of Klinsmann's caliber to be able to evaluate their abilities better than mine).

I think Klejstan is a good player and should get some looks with the NT (we could use a creative midfielder) but if Klinsmann doesn't think he's good enough than I won't disagree too strongly.

Original post from rainORshine

for me, basically a lot of bad ideas coming from JK:
1) CM trio - 3 of bradley, jones, edu, beckerman, williams - 8 times
2) starting kyle beckerman - 8 times
3) forcing players into wide MF positions (williams, torres, kljestan, EJ, gomez...) - MANY TIMES

look no further than first 3 games of hex
honduras - williams joins bradley and jones in CM = BAD IDEA
CR/Mex - gomez/zusi as wide mids = BAD IDEA

i would honestly be hard pressed to find 1 line-up in 25 games that was a good idea,,,


He never was going to play Beckerman in 2014 (when the result is most important) he was just calling him up to prove a few points to the players (that attitude, effort, and listening to the coach's instructions-in this case, playing as a #6-matters more than god-given talent). I'm willing to accept one or maybe two pets like this. Beckerman is the only selection that has really raised eyebrows. This is a welcome development to the previous coaches, who had tons of pets that didn't deserve to get selected.

And who is he supposed to put on the wing? We have no options until Donovan comes back or Shea recovers form and fitness (and gets PT at his new club). Even if Adu, Gyau, or Gatt turn out to be good enough players to play by the 2014 World Cup, they shouldn't be tried out until the Gold Cup. Corona is already getting called up to the NT and will most likely be getting playing time this summer. He'll get integrated into the team at some point. Klinnsman likes to bring players in a bit slowly and he can do that because he's an NT and not a club coach coach (right now all he has to do is qualify)

The only formations without wingers are the 3-5-2 and the 4-4-2 diamond he was playing. That didn't work out and I agree that we should have played a creative CM in there. But I'm mature enough of a soccer fan to not think a coach is terrible because there are a couple differences between my lineup and his (especially when it's a national team is in transition). Klinsmann is by far the best qualified person we could get for this job, he has the right vision, and he's really loyal to the US (unlike any other similarly-qualified candidate we could get), so you have to give him a chance as our coach rather than call for his head if you're mad he didn't pick one mediocre player you like in his starting XI. I'm not going to make strong judgments on him until after the World Cup as long as the results don't get too bad (they haven't). And even then, I'll take it worth a grain of salt as his vision for us was long-term and of course the player pool is arguably the worst it's been in over a decade.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT LINEUP YOU USE IN FIFA
rainORshine
Post #25
Thursday April 18, 2013 5:03pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,783
Original post from richieJkulesaNY

Because Kljestan likes to do the same things Bradley and Jones like to do. Kljestan is mroe like Bradley, though. Their natural tendencies are to come back to the ball, especially Bradley and Kljestan, they are best at the pivot role. If all three of those guys are on the field, we're going to look more like a 4-3-0-3, and have much of the same problems as we've seen in the past.

I believe the 4-2-3-1 is our best bet going forward, but we still need an actual LW. Looks like Beasley wants it based on his play this year.


kljestans game is very similar to pjanic, slightly more offensive than bradley. why do you think derossi/bradley/pjanic works for roma and jones/bradley/kljestan could not work for US? you feel de rossi / pjanic offer something massively different than jones / kljestan?

or you just really want to see 2 over the hill 32 y/o (beasley/donovan) on the wings in the world cup?

richieJkulesaNY
Post #26
Thursday April 18, 2013 5:25pm

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 951
Original post from rainORshine

kljestans game is very similar to pjanic, slightly more offensive than bradley. why do you think derossi/bradley/pjanic works for roma and jones/bradley/kljestan could not work for US? you feel de rossi / pjanic offer something massively different than jones / kljestan?

or you just really want to see 2 over the hill 32 y/o (beasley/donovan) on the wings in the world cup?


I dont watch Roma games to give you an answer.

All I know is the USMNT is not a possession-oriented soccer team. As a whole, we do not have the tactical awareness to pull off a 3 man central midfield, especially with three forwards. Jones is more the offensive midfielder of that particular trio, anyways. Kljestan is a better passer, sure. Doesnt mean he'll be more offensive.

We NEED NEED NEED to have the ability to attack the wings. I say Beasley right now because his play warrants it. I think it will be Shea when he gets healthy, though. Im not holding out for Donoavn. If he continues to get better, than I have no problem with him on the RW. I also dont mind Zusi as our RW. I like the fact that he pushes inside. It helps with possession and therefore allows Chandler to support the attack.

I want the next generation as much as the next guy, but its not there yet. Gyau is getting closer and closer. If Adu gets playing time in Brazil, then I would add him to the mix. I do not rate Gatt at all, so im not worried about him. Until then, if we have to stick to our old guns, then so be it.

rainORshine
Post #27
Thursday April 18, 2013 5:39pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,783
-----------altidore-----
-----dempsey----------
------X------X--------
johnson-----X------chandler
----besler-boca-cameron---

done. wings attacked with 3 CMs. and we are not waiting around for shea

we cant:
a) wait around for shea or whoever else
b) think that beasley will be a good option next summer

beasley has not been a good option up until now. why all of a sudden do people think beasley is a good option?

Know Nothing
Post #28
Thursday April 18, 2013 7:51pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 386
Original post from dolcem

This is ridiculous. No player aside from Dempsey is so important to this team that it's "unforgivable" if he doesn't start. Even Howard, Altidore, Bradley, and Cherundolo aren't 'untouchables' (we have other capable players at their positions).



I am curious, why do you think Dempsey so important to the team that he is untouchable? I know he has had great success, but we do have other capable players at his position as well, or perhaps can fashion a formation which allows for a better integrated team than to allow a free role for Dempsey.

richieJkulesaNY
Post #29
Thursday April 18, 2013 8:30pm

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 951
Original post from rainORshine

---altidore--
--dempsey---
--X--X--
johnson--X--chandler
-besler-boca-cameron-

done. wings attacked with 3 CMs. and we are not waiting around for shea



You do realize it matters who players "x" are....

I assume you mean kljestan, jones, and bradley, in which case my argument doesnt change.

rainORshine
Post #30
Thursday April 18, 2013 8:40pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,783
Original post from dolcem

This is ridiculous. No player aside from Dempsey is so important to this team that it's "unforgivable" if he doesn't start. Even Howard, Altidore, Bradley, and Cherundolo aren't 'untouchables' (we have other capable players at their positions).



unforgivable that in all his "experimenting" he has not given a single start to kljestan. i am not saying he should have started all 25

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