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jabbajolly
Post #46
Thursday December 11, 2014 3:29pm

Joined Nov 2014
Total Posts: 57
Original post from 2tone

MLS doesn't develop strikers for international competition? Mcbride comes to mind, Clint Mathis comes to mind, Altidore comes to mind, Clint Dempsey comes to mind, oh and all time USMNT leading scorer M/FWD by the name of Landon Donovan comes to mind.

But yeah MLS doesn't develop capable USMNT goal scorers at all!?!?!?!?


Correct. The MLS doesn't develop goal scorers or strikers at all. MLS can develop good defensive midfielders, goalkeepers, and solid center backs. That's really about it.

Dempsey & McBride played in MLS, but it's a very long stretch to say they developed or learned how to play in the MLS. They didn't. They became the players they are/were through their time in England. They're, along with Lando, in my eyes, the most effective goalscorers we've seen on the USMNT, and they got their schooling in England.

Landon's obviously the exception. He's defied the odds.

Altidore... well the less said about him the better - he certainly wasn't tearing up the MLS, his time there didn't develop any scoring skills - his professional career has been a bust entirely outside of two years in Holland. He's been a massive bummer for years - his World Cup in 2010 was atrocious and he didn't play in 2014... I don't care if it was an injury or not, you can only judge him on what he shows. And outside of goals in friendlies, he's not been impressive.
His goals in qualifying - 2 against Jamaica, 1 against Panama, 1 against Honduras.
His goals in the 2012 Gold Cup? Against Guadeloupe and Canada.
Dude's great in friendlies, but he seems to have peaked in 2009. He's gotta go.

Clint Mathis? Good player for a few years, but I'm not going to ever mention him in the same breath as Landon/Dempsey/McBride.

In general, the US doesn't develop strikers at all. This is the problem. They stay in MLS and turn into clowns like Wondolowski. I think it's time to try something different.

jabbajolly
Post #47
Thursday December 11, 2014 3:35pm

Joined Nov 2014
Total Posts: 57
And I'll nip it in the bud. I love the MLS! I have Red Bulls season tickets, I watch the other league games regularly.

But... come on. The standard of play isn't great. You can't argue that. The games are fun and it's not like it's BAD, but there are easily 10+ leagues in the world that are better than the MLS AT THIS POINT. Yes there are teams like LA & Seattle who would be possible relegation survivors in larger leagues, but they're the exception That shouldn't be good enough for international players.

navi8132
New York
Post #48
Thursday December 11, 2014 4:23pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3,100
US Soccer math: Bobby Wood=W, Juan Agudelo=A, Brek Shea=S.

W=A=S

dolcem
Post #49
Friday December 12, 2014 4:57am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Excellent posts by jabajolly.

What I'll add is that the German youth system probably had more to do with Landon's development than the MLS did, and of course he would have turned out to be a better player had he stuck it out in Europe and found a place to play. But he is the exception to the rule.

And as far as Altidore goes, he showed up to the MLS as a youth academy prodigy and left not much later (the same would go for Michael Bradley, for example) without having really made waves beforehand. He made the big strides in his development while in Europe. Right now things are looking dim for his career but that's because he made a horrible decision in going to Sunderland...good God why would you, as a striker, want to play for a bottom of the barrel EPL team? He should have gone to Ligue 1 or the Bundesliga (not Serie A, as some argue here).

While the MLS is making huge strides, in terms of the level of play it is still nowhere near the top European leagues, and the gap is especially big in terms of the style of play and the coaching. Jabajolly is right, it is nowhere near a league like the Eredevisie in terms of development (no MLS product could hold a candle compared to the top twenty or so Eredevisie products). Because of this, the MLS is not there yet in terms of being a good place for attacking players. For hustle, utility defensive players (Cameron for example) and keepers, it's great, because that's pretty much the defining charateristic of its style, but you don't have the free-flowing, attacking style of play you get in the Eredevisie or Bundesliga. And, surprise, the Eredevisie and Bundesliga produce some of the world's best attacking players. The wing play, in particular, in the MLS is horrible, and the best wingers the MLS produced in recent years (Kljestan, Holden) didn't even play on the wing when they went abroad (central mid). You look at guys like Zusi and they are in the mold of pre-EPL wingers. Piatti was always a winger in Argentina but in the MLS of course he plays as a #10 because his talents would be wasted on the wing here. It's a similar situation for Higuain (although he was a striker in Argentina).

I don't mean to seem anti-MLS but people are way off base in thinking that it is as good a place to develop attacking players as somewhere like the Eredevisie.
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blaise213
Post #50
Friday December 12, 2014 6:12am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,927
I love MLS but when I watch the other leagues, the flow seems so much better. I've always noticed most MLS players don't pass the ball as fluently. The passing in MLS is sometimes too slow and the players miss-kick the ball which causes the ball to bounce a lot.

TheTruth
Post #51
Friday December 12, 2014 3:39pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 950
Some of you guys are arguing with yourself. No one on this site has ever claimed MLS is better than Eredevisie. Just look how Holland propelled Altidore to international stardom. Sorry, had to get that dig in.

Besides, this thread is about what's best for Bobby Wood.

hamsamwich
Post #52
Friday December 12, 2014 4:23pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,143
Some say Holland, some say USA- hence the argument of development. It's different for different players. Perhaps the reports of Wood getting a bit big headed are true, or simply it's the fact that the coach who favored him got fired. Either way, having been at 1860 has been beneficial for him. Onto the next challenge- people can't possibly be hating on him- really?

People's expectations are what need a reality check. When immediate results don't happen we get upset, but in truth, Wood has gone over there to improve, not to be an instant mega star.

The gripes about MLS are for a reason, as the tempo is much slower than international soccer, which is slower in itself than say the Champions League. We want out guys always playing at the highest tempo/level/competition possible. That's what's best for Bob Wood.

dolcem
Post #53
Friday December 12, 2014 10:28pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,805
Original post from TheTruth

Some of you guys are arguing with yourself. No one on this site has ever claimed MLS is better than Eredevisie. Just look how Holland propelled Altidore to international stardom. Sorry, had to get that dig in.

Besides, this thread is about what's best for Bobby Wood.


I figured someone would accuse JJ as being my DL, and while that last post of his would be the exact type of thing I would write, the style is completely different, and I don't think our views are all that unique on this particular issue (though sadly too unique on this forum).

A phrase constantly found on YA pots is: "he should spend a few more years in MLS," even after this player has already played there a while. The idea is that the MLS is just as good a place to develop as somewhere else and that a player doesn't need to leave until he has "outgrown" it. This is just completely off-base for a number of reasons, of course sometimes because quality players do poorly in the MLS because of the players and system around them, but most importantly, because the coaching and style of play is not as high it is in the top European leagues, and the sooner the player gets this level of instruction, the better. Of course playing time has to be taken into consideration, but the general rule is that the sooner a player gets to be taught by these elite coaches, the better.

I'm not really sure how the comment about Jozy at AZ succeeds as a "dig." While it is true that the Eredevisie isn't as competitive as it used to be and because of its attacking style of play, sometimes poor strikers score boatloads of goals, we can play the same game with the MLS-it has seen plenty of crap footballers light up the league. Look at Bradley Wright-Phillips this year. And remember Luke Rodgers? Before Landon Donovan broke the scoring record, it was held by Jeff Cunningham. The all-time scoring record. It is true that Jozy scored far more in the Eredevisie than he did in the MLS, but that's because where he played he had great service and tons of chances due to the offensive style of play. Now which do you think would be better for a striker's development? Playing on a team/league with a defensive style of play and few scoring chances (and lots of aimless long balls), or playing on a team with an offensive style of play, great service, and lots of scoring chances? For these reasons AZ was a great move while Sunderland (and the loan at Hull) was a horrible one. He should have gone to Ligue 1 or the Bundesliga, but a lot of people think soccer is just like football and that the only thing that matters is the level of play, and that the idea is to just play in the league with the best players. What really matters is the style fo play and the quality of the coaching. He made that mistake twice and it has been a real dead-end for his career, but he isn't done.

And as far as Bobby Wood goes, people on here are calling for him to go to the MLS, but for these reasons I think he'd be better off in the 2. Bundesliga. Yes, the level of play is higher than the MLS, but more importantly, the coaching is better, and the style of play is as well (and it's more offensive, perfect for a winger/forward like Wood).
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skangles
DC
Post #54
Monday February 2, 2015 6:05pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 5,420
Wood has transferred to Erzgebirge Aue. They are currently in last place in 2. Bundesliga.

Wood needed to get out of 1860 and he's going to a team that appears to really want him. He'll be in a battle to avoid relegation so hopefully he executes well under that pressure.

blaise213
Post #55
Monday February 2, 2015 7:27pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,927
I'm kinda happy he won't be available for the Panama game

SiteBomb621
Post #56
Tuesday February 3, 2015 2:48pm

Joined Jan 2014
Total Posts: 176
Original post from blaise213

I'm kinda happy he won't be available for the Panama game


Totally agree. Zardes should be starting ahead of Wood. IMHO Wood has no business on the USMNT at this present time.

hamsamwich
Post #57
Saturday February 7, 2015 1:34pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,143
Started and went 70' yesterday in his first game with new club. You people all bagging on this guy- a 21yr old- are a bunch of a$$holes. Bob Wood can play, and I hope he gets more playing time to stay sharp. Don't write him off just yet.

TheTruth
Post #58
Saturday February 7, 2015 3:53pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 950
No one is writing him off. Just that most of us think there should be a few more people above him in the pecking order for the USMNT.

blaise213
Post #59
Saturday February 7, 2015 7:31pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,927
Original post from hamsamwich

Started and went 70' yesterday in his first game with new club. You people all bagging on this guy- a 21yr old- are a bunch of a$$holes. Bob Wood can play, and I hope he gets more playing time to stay sharp. Don't write him off just yet.


Did he score?

#2013

kjperuch
Post #60
Friday February 13, 2015 10:37pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 223
Ha ha ha Bobby scored twice today lol. He just put Erzegbirge ahead of1860 Munich in the table and out of regulation. Good for him....

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