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navi8132
Post #92
Monday September 2, 2013 2:02pm
Players ahead of Juan. Juan has yet to have a single complete successful season in MLS. Juan is a bit arrogant, thus getting caps easily on the USMNT would worsen that.
Give me one complete season in the MLS of playing consistently well, and I would fully support giving him caps on the USMNT. Struggle in the MLS, and hell no.
Give me one complete season in the MLS of playing consistently well, and I would fully support giving him caps on the USMNT. Struggle in the MLS, and hell no.
rainORshine
Post #93
Friday September 20, 2013 1:00am
hate to belabor this... but i am going to
from europa league today:
salzburg (austria) 4 - 0 elfsborg (sweden's only team in europe)
tromso, norways only team in europe lost 0-3 in their opener
vienna fell 0-1 to porto (ranked #8 in UEFA) in UCL
rapid (boyd) fell 0-1 on the road to thun (SWISS - a league that happens to be vastly under-rated. basel won at chelsea yesterday and beat tottenham in europa QF last season. st. gallen won their EL opener 2-0 today)
i suggest that the original post be re-written with the title "diskerud's dilemma".
norway is not a suitable league for a 23 y/o USMNT player. not even close.
norway ranks 26th in UEFA
sweden is 24
austria is 14
(swiss is 12)
these ranking are simply derived (basically) from how teams from different leagues fair against one another in cup competitions and today provided a perfect example of why austria is ranked WAY above sweden and norway. and contrary to popular belief, there is a pretty wide gap between 14 and 26
i will say again that playing for a europa league austrian team is an acceptable level for a 22 y/o (boyd is younger than mix) USMNT player. not saying it is GOOD, but ACCEPTABLE. and i hope boyd is transferred in january...
... but playing in sweden or norway, beyond the age of 21, is no longer really acceptable for a full USMNT player,,,
from europa league today:
salzburg (austria) 4 - 0 elfsborg (sweden's only team in europe)
tromso, norways only team in europe lost 0-3 in their opener
vienna fell 0-1 to porto (ranked #8 in UEFA) in UCL
rapid (boyd) fell 0-1 on the road to thun (SWISS - a league that happens to be vastly under-rated. basel won at chelsea yesterday and beat tottenham in europa QF last season. st. gallen won their EL opener 2-0 today)
i suggest that the original post be re-written with the title "diskerud's dilemma".
norway is not a suitable league for a 23 y/o USMNT player. not even close.
norway ranks 26th in UEFA
sweden is 24
austria is 14
(swiss is 12)
these ranking are simply derived (basically) from how teams from different leagues fair against one another in cup competitions and today provided a perfect example of why austria is ranked WAY above sweden and norway. and contrary to popular belief, there is a pretty wide gap between 14 and 26
i will say again that playing for a europa league austrian team is an acceptable level for a 22 y/o (boyd is younger than mix) USMNT player. not saying it is GOOD, but ACCEPTABLE. and i hope boyd is transferred in january...
... but playing in sweden or norway, beyond the age of 21, is no longer really acceptable for a full USMNT player,,,
EKneezy
Atlanta
Atlanta
Post #94
Friday September 20, 2013 1:21am
Yeah the thought of Boyd moving to Watford would make me sad. Watford isnt gonna be pushing for a top 6 spot even if they get promoted. Boyd is making waves at Rapid getting PT in the Europa League. If he does move in January, go to a team where playing in Europe is attainable. Lazio would be an excellent move especially since Klose is considering all moves before a possible resigning.
Bshredder
Post #95
Friday September 20, 2013 1:31am
Playing in the Europa is wayyyy overrated. It's so much better to be in a good league & out of the Europa than in a mediocre league & in the Europa
2tone
Ten-Towns
Ten-Towns
Post #96
Friday September 20, 2013 4:17am
Who cares what a fan deems unacceptable, seriously.
snipes87
Cleveland, Ohio
Cleveland, Ohio
Post #97
Friday September 20, 2013 5:40am
I think we are being a little to critical. I don't think anyone has Boyd challenging Jozy for starting 11 in 2018 or anything. But he's developing into a solid player. 3rd or 4th choice striker isn't a bad thing. We don't suck (completely) at soccer anymore
If you don't love it, leave it, USA #1
admsghs27
Post #98
Friday September 20, 2013 8:25am
Mls is much much better than those leagues listed... This league is very underrated and extremely tough to succeed here.. Dempsey is finding out first hand i bet if he was in europe/tottenham he would be tearing it up, but he never thought the competition would be this tough in mls today.. As many players that come from europe or elswhere ,many times dont make it and leave or get cut/released
richieJkulesaNY
Post #99
Friday September 20, 2013 3:43pm
Rain, just watch the players play. Mix just showed you against Mexico he belongs. I get you're just trying to make your case for Kljestan (I agree with you that he should be on the USMNT), but relax on this "which league is better" rant. Just watch these guys play and then make your case.
As for Boyd, I dont know because i never watch him play, so I'll keep my mouth shut.
As for Boyd, I dont know because i never watch him play, so I'll keep my mouth shut.
rainORshine
Post #100
Friday September 20, 2013 6:03pm
Original post from richieJkulesaNY
Rain, just watch the players play. Mix just showed you against Mexico he belongs. I get you're just trying to make your case for Kljestan (I agree with you that he should be on the USMNT), but relax on this "which league is better" rant. Just watch these guys play and then make your case.
As for Boyd, I dont know because i never watch him play, so I'll keep my mouth shut.
Rain, just watch the players play. Mix just showed you against Mexico he belongs. I get you're just trying to make your case for Kljestan (I agree with you that he should be on the USMNT), but relax on this "which league is better" rant. Just watch these guys play and then make your case.
As for Boyd, I dont know because i never watch him play, so I'll keep my mouth shut.
im watching. i thought diskerud was ok in the gold cup. pretty weak competition.
since then he has 59 minutes for MNT. not much to go on.
i thought that it was impressive that mix was playing in norway's top division at 18. way better than college. was less impressive when he was still there at 20. and 21. now at 23, im not sure why people are still impressed. they seem to be confusing the potential he showed at 18-20 with current form at rosenborg.
after starting 3 games at gold cup and a nice 14 minute cameo against mexico and everybody is convinced this guy belongs on USMNT?
i agree, lets keep watching. maybe he does, maybe he does not
rainORshine
Post #101
Friday September 20, 2013 6:55pm
Original post from Bshredder
Playing in the Europa is wayyyy overrated. It's so much better to be in a good league & out of the Europa than in a mediocre league & in the Europa
Playing in the Europa is wayyyy overrated. It's so much better to be in a good league & out of the Europa than in a mediocre league & in the Europa
not sure what you mean by "overrated". it is what it is. it means you play meaningful games against decent teams from other countries. there are tangible and intangible rewards for participating and progressing in the competition - $$ and exposure most notably. europa is simply a nice bonus
that being said, yes, it is a good rule of thumb to try and play in the best league possible
THAT being said, relegation is a reality in europe. not necessarily smart to move from a EL team in one league to a relegation-threatened team in a slightly better league.
in boyds case, for example, it would not make much sense to go to a bottom half team in say, turkey or greece. if you are making move up from a EL team (to a team that is generally not EL) it better be a significant step up - worth the risk of possibly playing in the bottom half of the table (and getting relegated)
admsghs27
Post #102
Friday September 20, 2013 7:18pm
Honestly i dont really care where the player plays as long as they perform and play great with the mnt... So only because a player starts in the epl, bundesliga, or la liga that doesnt mean mean they should start for the mnt.. As a matter of fact personally i think Besler, gonzo are better than cameron and they play in mls, mix i think is better than jones plays in norway, donovan , dempsey better than the rest, play in mls.. Honestly i wouldnt care if they play in central america, asia, antartica, africa, hawaii, as long as they are good with the mnt...
rainORshine
Post #103
Friday September 20, 2013 10:11pm
Original post from admsghs27
Honestly i dont really care where the player plays as long as they perform and play great with the mnt... So only because a player starts in the epl, bundesliga, or la liga that doesnt mean mean they should start for the mnt.. As a matter of fact personally i think Besler, gonzo are better than cameron and they play in mls, mix i think is better than jones plays in norway, donovan , dempsey better than the rest, play in mls.. Honestly i wouldnt care if they play in central america, asia, antartica, africa, hawaii, as long as they are good with the mnt...
Honestly i dont really care where the player plays as long as they perform and play great with the mnt... So only because a player starts in the epl, bundesliga, or la liga that doesnt mean mean they should start for the mnt.. As a matter of fact personally i think Besler, gonzo are better than cameron and they play in mls, mix i think is better than jones plays in norway, donovan , dempsey better than the rest, play in mls.. Honestly i wouldnt care if they play in central america, asia, antartica, africa, hawaii, as long as they are good with the mnt...
yea, i have heard this type of sentiment before and i have to say that i dont really understand it. guess it just depends on hopes/aspirations/expectations
US players can play just about anywhere and still reasonably hope to win gold cups and qualify for world cups.
i have my sights set on say, a WC semifinal by 2022. guess what? that is only going to happen when most of your players are playing at a comparable level as the very best players in the world - or close to it.
you dont just walk onto the pitch at the world cup with a bunch of guys playing MLS, central america, asia, antarctica, hawaii, etc (from post above).. and reasonably expect to win 2 knock-out round games at the world cup.
norway is a fine place for a young prospect. at 23 it is time for diskerud to move beyond "young prospect". based on the low level of competition he faces each week i am skeptical that he will be useful against the worlds best players. i think we saw a glimpse of that against bosnia
the highest ranked team in UEFA that rosenborg will face all year is molde - ranked 155,,,
you can not just magically adapt on the fly to the accelerated pace of the game that is played at the very highest levels
_Dw_
Post #104
Saturday September 21, 2013 12:03am
Original post from rainORshine
yea, i have heard this type of sentiment before and i have to say that i dont really understand it. guess it just depends on hopes/aspirations/expectations
US players can play just about anywhere and still reasonably hope to win gold cups and qualify for world cups.
i have my sights set on say, a WC semifinal by 2022. guess what? that is only going to happen when most of your players are playing at a comparable level as the very best players in the world - or close to it.
you dont just walk onto the pitch at the world cup with a bunch of guys playing MLS, central america, asia, antarctica, hawaii, etc (from post above).. and reasonably expect to win 2 knock-out round games at the world cup.
norway is a fine place for a young prospect. at 23 it is time for diskerud to move beyond "young prospect". based on the low level of competition he faces each week i am skeptical that he will be useful against the worlds best players. i think we saw a glimpse of that against bosnia
the highest ranked team in UEFA that rosenborg will face all year is molde - ranked 155,,,
you can not just magically adapt on the fly to the accelerated pace of the game that is played at the very highest levels
yea, i have heard this type of sentiment before and i have to say that i dont really understand it. guess it just depends on hopes/aspirations/expectations
US players can play just about anywhere and still reasonably hope to win gold cups and qualify for world cups.
i have my sights set on say, a WC semifinal by 2022. guess what? that is only going to happen when most of your players are playing at a comparable level as the very best players in the world - or close to it.
you dont just walk onto the pitch at the world cup with a bunch of guys playing MLS, central america, asia, antarctica, hawaii, etc (from post above).. and reasonably expect to win 2 knock-out round games at the world cup.
norway is a fine place for a young prospect. at 23 it is time for diskerud to move beyond "young prospect". based on the low level of competition he faces each week i am skeptical that he will be useful against the worlds best players. i think we saw a glimpse of that against bosnia
the highest ranked team in UEFA that rosenborg will face all year is molde - ranked 155,,,
you can not just magically adapt on the fly to the accelerated pace of the game that is played at the very highest levels
Have to disagree with you. It helps to have a higher level of competition at all times, yes, but it isn't solely going to determine how well you do at that international team level. I agree with you on that portion, it does help to have that higher competition level. But the fact of the matter is that if you have 11 average joes that take on the aspect of "team" on the pitch, they can achieve stuff that may seem impossible. It happens in sports all the time. You'll have a few gifted players on the team but it's all about the team.
If you've played sports then you would understand this and I am assuming that you have played sports.
MSantoine
Post #105
Saturday September 21, 2013 1:39am
Another thing people need to start thinking is soccer age is vastly different from other sports (its similar to NBA but thats really it). 18-19 is young. 23 is in your prime
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I'll take Agudelo everyday of the week. He could turn out a good striker but not the type we need to be playing the system we want. He is a Brusier/Hustle type not that I have problem with those players but those types can only take us so far on the international stage.
Hearing a lot of quibbling about Lichaj's exclusion, I'm much more perplexed at why Agudelo has yet to get much of a chance under Klinsman. The way JK likes this team to play, Juan would be an excellent addition.