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bjelks
Post #61
Friday November 20, 2020 3:30pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,910
On the mls side, I like what I've seen from:

Ebbiose - good off ball and sweet left foot

Bassett - good passer between the lines, looks ok on the half turn

Aruajo - good technically, decent dribble, will crack it from distance, strong on the challenge

Mckenzie - solid all around

Caden Clark - I think he got it, he looks like he can be a top 5 league player

Bello - I need to see more

Busio - I need to see more

Mueller - I need to see him against better defenders

Dyke - need to see him play in tighter spaces, combine and score from distance

Akinola - same as Dyke
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #62
Friday November 20, 2020 4:58pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,549
Original post from hamsamwich

How did this morph into some weird conversation about a volley? Konrad can hit a volley just fine, what he needs to learn to do is combine better and find teammates in scoring positions. Konrad desperately needs a loan.

Back to the December crowd- @dave- if the European guys didn't exist (I know they do) it would be important that the coach built up a squad of players and evaluated everyone he possibly could. In that scenario it would be for a full team. But what Berhalter I'm sure is looking for is bench guys, rotation guys and maybe the occasional diamond in the rough. These are important camps- even if they are just for the u20-23 age groups.

I don't think that taking Duncan, McKenzie or whoever seriously is a problem. Let's let the playoffs play out and then see who isn't available. There is still plenty of quality to choose from even if it has to be a younger crowd at this friendly and camp.
As I stated in the November Friendly thread...

Because of the fixture congestion thats coming up upon us...
  • U20 World Cup
  • Olympic Qualifying
  • Olympics
  • Nations League
  • World Cup Qualifiers
  • Gold Cup
...all of these coming after an already congested club schedule due to covid, with many of these competitions conflicting with club seasons, and clubs having the ability to withhold players from participating in certain instances, and the potential injury status of players...

Berhalter is legitimately attempting to build out depth. Hes not looking for a first team per se. Hes looking to build out about 2-3 teams of players that hes going to utilize this summer.

Too many people are getting their heads wrapped up in a "potential 23 man group for the world cup" to think about what is actually taking place and the decisions that need to be made...

Its impossible for him to be able to use the same team for all of these competitions. He has to find a way to identify the guys who - although maybe not WC 23 roster quality - will be competent enough and good enough to grind though the next 8 months and "get the job done".

What he has stated, and what we know thus far:
  • There is an emphasis on the Olympics
  • The Olympic qualifying roster will be almost entirely MLS based
  • Gold cup will be an understrength squad
  • Berhalter wants to get enough guys and spread out the talent for each competition so that we are strong enough to compete and win
  • Olympic qualifying takes place in late March/early April
  • U20 World Cup takes place late May/early June
  • Nations League and WCQ both take place in June
  • Gold Cup takes place in July
  • Olympics take place in late July/early August
Looking at this, we can pretty easily conclude that there will realistically be 3 groups of guys - Olympic qualifying guys, U20 WC guys, and Nations League/WCQ guys. The reason that there are no Olympic or Gold Cup guys will be laid out here in a minute...

The majority of the Olympic Qualifying guys likely won't be taking part in the Olympics, as most of our best players to begin with are under 23 and based in Europe, and the guys we will need to use for Olympic Qualifying are realistically going to be MLS/Liga MX based.

We should expect Olympic qualifying to be U23 MLS players.

With the U20 World Cup, we're likely going field a good mix of European based youth players and U20 MLS kids. Seeing as this will be the end of the European club season, and the middle of MLS, we shouldn't expect any U20 players who are senior starters or getting consistent minutes to go (like Aaronsen, Soto, and Reyna).

We should expect the best U20 kids who ARE NOT consistent senior players for their clubs (like Konrad, Ledezma, and Gloster).

With the Nations League and World Cup Qualifying taking place in the same month, we should expect 1 team to be playing in all games. We are guaranteed 4 games during this window in close turn around, so any more than a couple potential roster changes is unrealistic. Additionally, since Nations League is a tournament/trophy that we can win, and WCQ is realistically our #1 priority, we are going to put out a full strength squad. This will not be a time to experiment, so there realistically will be no new faces, and we should expect older MLS guys like Long/Zimmerman, Morris, and possibly Zardes.

We should expect the roster for Nations League and WCQ in June to be our best roster of players (or what GGG considers the best), with a heavy core of guys from the most recent camp in November sprinkled in with a few older MLS players.


Now, what sticks out is that Olympics and Gold Cup are an "either or" scenario. Players will not be able to take part in both... so to create both of these rosters, Berhalter is going to have to rely on the guys called in from the 3 previous groups (Olympic Qualifying, U20 World Cup, and Nations League/WCQ). Seeing as Olympics are more of a priority than Gold Cup, I would assume an "older and MLS heavy" roster for GC with a "younger and European heavy" Olympic roster.

For the Olympics, we should expect that the U23 players from the Nations League/WCQ roster will be selected, with a few guys from the Olympic Qualifying group and some of the U20 WC standouts. This excludes any consideration for the 3 overage Olympic players and assumes we qualify.

For the Gold Cup, we should expect a couple of older guys from the Nations League/WCQ roster, with Olympic Qualifying players who weren't selected to go to the Olympics, and a few older MLS guys and potentially a couple above U23 players from Scandinavian/European leagues who weren't selected to any of the previous rosters.

As I keep saying... there is a lot more going on than what people realize and there are a lot of considerations to be made. The reality is that Berhalter is trying to build depth. He needs to build depth. He cannot keep using the same 23 roster of players, he needs to find a proper way to rotate them out and move them around to keep the USMNT competitive in each tournament without overloading the players the summer before the 2022 WC (risking burnout and injury). And as unpopular as that is, and as much as many people are going to hate it, this is going to require a large reliance on MLS... Why? Because thats where the lions share of USMNT eligible players play.

December is going to take place, and its going to be very MLS heavy. There may be a couple European guys (like Johannsson), but he is going to be looking at a lot of younger MLS players who are on teams that are not competing in the MLS cup, and are not competing in the Concacaf Champions League.

Then, when January hits, he will call in the guys who he wasn't able to call in for the December games, and bring back a number of guys he called in December... almost all MLS based players.

A number of the guys called into these two camps are going to be the Olympic Qualifying and Gold Cup players. Berhalter, by this point, has a strong idea as to who is going to get into that Nations League/WCQ roster. These camps are to build out the depth and move the pieces for the other competitions on the horizon...

None of this should come as a surprise, and all of this is very easy to recognize when you do a bit of critical thinking and connect the dots.

This isn't targeted at you hamsamwich, but too many people on this board don't think and only freak out at the names. They get uptight when they genuinely don't know what they're talking about...

Lilshmike
Post #63
Friday November 20, 2020 5:31pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,549
...and this should go without saying, but...

After the conclusion of this summer, after all of these competitions, with lots of faces who have played and been seen by Berhalter, our top 23 list of players will be extremely refined for the November WCQs.

We should expect 75-80% of the top 23 players to be figured out, with the remaining 5-6 guys to fill the bench to be somewhat rotated/up for grabs throughout qualifying and camp cupcake in 2022.

There will realistically be 10 to 15 guys competing for the chance to be selected as the 18th or higher pick on the WC roster or simply make it on the reserve list for the WC in the event of injury.

The reality is... kids like Konrad, Ledezma, Haji, Llanez... those guys are part of that group. They are fighting for their chance to make it on the reserve list, or be one of the very last names taken.

cudevil
Post #64
Friday November 20, 2020 7:06pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,163
If Konrad, Ledezma, and/or Llanez are playing regular first team minutes at Barca, PSV, and Wolfsburg (or at an Eresdivisie club), respectively, by the end of next summer, they won't be competing for a fringe spot on the roster.

Will all 3 be getting first team run? Probably not. But I'd be surprised if at least two weren't.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #65
Friday November 20, 2020 8:10pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,117
Original post from hamsamwich

How did this morph into some weird conversation about a volley? Konrad can hit a volley just fine, what he needs to learn to do is combine better and find teammates in scoring positions. Konrad desperately needs a loan.

Back to the December crowd- @dave- if the European guys didn't exist (I know they do) it would be important that the coach built up a squad of players and evaluated everyone he possibly could. In that scenario it would be for a full team. But what Berhalter I'm sure is looking for is bench guys, rotation guys and maybe the occasional diamond in the rough. These are important camps- even if they are just for the u20-23 age groups.

I don't think that taking Duncan, McKenzie or whoever seriously is a problem. Let's let the playoffs play out and then see who isn't available. There is still plenty of quality to choose from even if it has to be a younger crowd at this friendly and camp.


Agreed everyone misses a shot (even sitters) once in awhile. I don't think Konrad is quite ready for the first team yet, and it has nothing to do with one volley. It's very important to build depth because you never know what is going to happen in football. Injury, Covid, etc. We need capable backups who know what is expected of them and can step in when needed with it not being their first cap.

Lilshmike
Post #66
Friday November 20, 2020 9:07pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,549
Original post from cudevil

If Konrad, Ledezma, and/or Llanez are playing regular first team minutes at Barca, PSV, and Wolfsburg (or at an Eresdivisie club), respectively, by the end of next summer, they won't be competing for a fringe spot on the roster.

Will all 3 be getting first team run? Probably not. But I'd be surprised if at least two weren't.
With Pulisic, Reyna, Morris, Boyd, Weah all as wing options currently... lets call it for what it is, its an uphill battle for those guys.

I highly doubt Konrad gets any meaningful run, even with Fati hurt. Barca is a club that, with the January window coming up, will buy a guy to fill in instead of pulling in Konrad. Thats just the reality of the situation.

Ledezma only just got his first team debut with PSV. Hes likely going to continue to get limited minutes throughout the rest of the season.

Berhalter has stated he likes Llanez, so has the best shot of any of those guys - especially considering his role in the games hes been called in. But the truth is that Konrad and Ledezma are still a ways off, and the best they can realistically hope for is that they make the reserve list for the WC, if they even make it that far...

Lilshmike
Post #67
Friday November 20, 2020 9:54pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,549
@cudevil

But to be fair, yes, by the end of next summer a lot could change. I just don't see Konrad getting any meaningful role to where he can stake a claim over the guys in front of him. Llanez has a legitimate shot. Ledezma too, but he has to start making an impact sooner rather than later.

Don't look at the guys and their clubs... look at who is in front of them and do the math...

How many wing players would we realistically bring? I'd think about 4 or 5.

Assuming Pulisic, Reyna and Morris are all injury free... they are going. Absolutely no debate.

3 of the 4/5 are gone right there. That leaves 1 to 2 spots

Tyler Boyd still exists, and I would say that he is likely next in line, or close to it (current club situation aside, and assuming he gets that sorted out).

Weah is getting back to health, and assuming he stays injury free, hes in about the same position as Tyler Boyd.

Then you throw in Llanez (who has a legit shot), Ledezma, and Konrad... potentially add in another guy like Sabbi...

The math doesn't add up. Not all 3 of those guys, not even 2 of those guys stands a legitimate shot of making that final WC roster next summer unless we have injuries, one of the guys in front of them completely shats the bed, or one of those guys goes on an absolute tear sometime in the next 12 months.

So bringing it back around, to be fair a lot could change by the end of next summer. The question is how likely, and does it make sense (i.e does the math add up). At this point in time, as I stated, its an uphill battle for those guys and they realistically are going to be fighting for one of the VERY last spots at best or a reserve list spot...

bjelks
Post #68
Friday November 20, 2020 10:22pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,910
@lilshmike So you're telling me that no matter how much Konrad, Ully, or Weah progress with their clubs, Morris and Boyd should be guaranteed players?

If this is what you're implying, there should be a lot of debate about the corruption in USMNT/ USSF.
goalsense
cudevil
Post #69
Friday November 20, 2020 10:26pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,163
Original post from Lilshmike

@cudevil

But to be fair, yes, by the end of next summer a lot could change. I just don't see Konrad getting any meaningful role to where he can stake a claim over the guys in front of him. Llanez has a legitimate shot. Ledezma too, but he has to start making an impact sooner rather than later.

Don't look at the guys and their clubs... look at who is in front of them and do the math...

How many wing players would we realistically bring? I'd think about 4 or 5.

Assuming Pulisic, Reyna and Morris are all injury free... they are going. Absolutely no debate.

3 of the 4/5 are gone right there. That leaves 1 to 2 spots

Tyler Boyd still exists, and I would say that he is likely next in line, or close to it (current club situation aside, and assuming he gets that sorted out).

Weah is getting back to health, and assuming he stays injury free, hes in about the same position as Tyler Boyd.

Then you throw in Llanez (who has a legit shot), Ledezma, and Konrad... potentially add in another guy like Sabbi...

The math doesn't add up. Not all 3 of those guys, not even 2 of those guys stands a legitimate shot of making that final WC roster next summer unless we have injuries, one of the guys in front of them completely shats the bed, or one of those guys goes on an absolute tear sometime in the next 12 months.

So bringing it back around, to be fair a lot could change by the end of next summer. The question is how likely, and does it make sense (i.e does the math add up). At this point in time, as I stated, its an uphill battle for those guys and they realistically are going to be fighting for one of the VERY last spots at best or a reserve list spot...


I am fine with Morris, but I fail to see any universe where, if Llanez, Konrad, or Ledezma are playing regular minutes at their respective clubs (or Eresdivisie level loans) that Morris should be a lock.

And I think Boyd would go to the back of the line with a quickness if he's still stumbling about in Turkey.

Weah better start playing more regularly soon, as well, because he could easily get jumped.

Samtom23
Post #70
Saturday November 21, 2020 12:03am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 510
I think there could be one starter spot open at RCB. Long might be the leading candidate in GB's eyes but I think he is open to the idea of competition.

Also, I wonder if Boyd will be invited to this December camp?

hamsamwich
Post #71
Saturday November 21, 2020 2:25am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,537
I think Ledezma gets enough minutes to become a viable option somewhere. Reyna could play in the middle for sure, he does half the time for his club... The World Cup is two years away. I'd argue a guy could pop up after the qualifying ends during the fall of their club season in 2022 and still potentially get a look. There's a long way to go.

But Konrad needs to play, so does tim Weah who I thought looked decently explosive. He just needs a good loan now that Lille has taken it easy with him so he didn't get reinjured.
A lot of players will get looks it's about grabbing the opportunity.

The December camp seems like a good time to rate the MLS guys. Opposition roughly the same as Panama isn't as good as they've been and Wales sent out their B team too. El Salvador is another shitty team we have to beat soundly it's time for the performances to be backed up no matter who is playing. Against the regional teams we have to crush them.

blaise213
Post #72
Sunday November 22, 2020 9:16pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 3,251
Didn't want to start a new thread early but I think the US can field a dangerous B team for the gold cup.

---- Johannsson ---
--- Caden - Holmes ---
Green -- Dike -- H Wright
(?) -- CCV - EPB - Yedlin
--- Whoever -----

I'd even look at diskerud too !

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #73
Monday November 23, 2020 12:15am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,380
BUSIOOOOOO

bjelks
Post #74
Monday November 23, 2020 12:16am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,910
You got Dyke at 6 and Haji at 8 😂😂😂
goalsense
blaise213
Post #75
Monday November 23, 2020 2:04am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 3,251
Original post from bjelks

You got Dyke at 6 and Haji at 8 😂😂😂


Haji is a right winger and dyke or however you spell it is in the middle. I just randomly threw him there, put nagbe, put the kid in Liga Mx who wants to play for US, Theres some healthy options for a B team.

Already told you I don't care about the #6 and 8 position. These young kids track back.

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