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Scout92
Lone Star State
Post #151
Wednesday December 2, 2020 4:33pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,529
Original post from Samtom23

That is why I want to see Sabbi next camp. Goes all out and younger and more talented.


My thoughts exactly, you can't tell me Paul is better than Sabbi, no way. That's why Gregg calling up Seba during the Euro camp pissed me off so much, there's literally guys grinding in Europe who deserved a look. It appears Gregg does not rate any players out side the bigger leagues. He prob hated having to call up 2nd division guys during that camp.

Lilshmike
Post #152
Wednesday December 2, 2020 4:59pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,576
Sabbi wasn't eligible last camp... he plays in Demark. Covid restrictions.

Lilshmike
Post #153
Wednesday December 2, 2020 5:05pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,576
Original post from stoked-3

In speaking today GB indicated that Paul is looked at as a potential starter and they want to get him integrated back quickly-Im throwing the potential starter part in but when you say you need to get someone back into the team and your excited about that not sure what else to say.

This is the part where I look at it and say how does morris and now paul get called in after not playing. Why cant we treat Weah the same way? or anyone else for that matter. I am baffled by the call up but more dumbfounded that GB rates him so highly
There is a difference between returning form a knee ligament injury, and having a history of recurring hamstring pulls and tears...

With a hamstring tear (as Weah had) especially after multiple, consistent muscle pulls... well, you have to take it VERY easy with that or you risk ruing your athletic career very quickly.

How many times has Weah come back and been shelved again? After each injury thus far?

With an ACL (Morris and Arriola) you aren't able to run or do lateral movement, but you can continue to do leg strengthening exercises to a certain degree. A lot of guys come back and their legs are stronger than before. They do this to help prevent another tear from non-contact injury.

Pointing out that as frustrated as you are... Weah is not an apples to apples comparison because their injuries are not one to one.

Full disclosure - I wouldn't have called in Paul... but that being said, Berhalter is sorting out depth. Paul isn't a terrible depth piece considering who we have, and this is a MLS camp for a game against El Salvador... why are you guys getting so up tight?

Lilshmike
Post #154
Wednesday December 2, 2020 5:21pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,576
RE Paul Arriola...

Scenario for you guys...

Weah pulls his hammy again. Pulisic messes up his quad or hammy again. Konrad is still in the reserves. Boyd still rotting on the bench in Turkey. Maybe Covid restrictions are still in place...

Who do we call in for a CONCACAF WCQ to play on the wing?

Options start to get REALLY thin people... and its entirely realistic that Paul could get called in. A bit older, national team experience, hard worker, you know what you' get from him and he can do the job against a Guatemala or Jamaica or Panama or Honduras. We don't need a game changer at this point... we just need a result.

That is a wildly realistic scenario. This is the reality of our pool. This is what Berhalter is having to think about with all of our competitions on the horizon.

Some of these guys are going to be here throughout qualifying... but that doesn't mean they'll be here for the WC. See Clarence Goodson, Brad Evans, Michael Parkhurst, Michael Orozco Fiscal in 2014

BMD15
Boston
Post #155
Wednesday December 2, 2020 6:42pm

Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts: 158
Original post from Lilshmike

Sabbi wasn't eligible last camp... he plays in Demark. Covid restrictions.


Why let facts get in the way of a good argument?
NETID
Lilshmike
Post #156
Wednesday December 2, 2020 7:08pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,576
Original post from BMD15

Why let facts get in the way of a good argument?
Because I love being the bearer of bad news (ie facts and rationality) on this site.

Scout92
Lone Star State
Post #157
Wednesday December 2, 2020 8:52pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,529
Original post from Lilshmike

Sabbi wasn't eligible last camp... he plays in Demark. Covid restrictions.


Cool, still could've called someone else..but MLS right. It's all fun and games until we have Puli, Reyna, and Wes having to feed the ball into Zardes LOL. Nah if he's getting the goals I don't care, whoever is scoring play them, get Wondo even!

Scout92
Lone Star State
Post #158
Wednesday December 2, 2020 9:27pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,529
Original post from Lilshmike

Because I love being the bearer of bad news (ie facts and rationality) on this site.


Oo, try not to say that too proudly...this site isn't that serious..

Lilshmike
Post #159
Wednesday December 2, 2020 9:28pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,576
Original post from Scout92

Cool, still could've called someone else..but MLS right. It's all fun and games until we have Puli, Reyna, and Wes having to feed the ball into Zardes LOL. Nah if he's getting the goals I don't care, whoever is scoring play them, get Wondo even!
*gets popcorn, sits down, and waits for the outrage from people on yanks abroad*

cudevil
Post #160
Wednesday December 2, 2020 9:29pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,206
Original post from Lilshmike

RE Paul Arriola...

Scenario for you guys...

Weah pulls his hammy again. Pulisic messes up his quad or hammy again. Konrad is still in the reserves. Boyd still rotting on the bench in Turkey. Maybe Covid restrictions are still in place...

Who do we call in for a CONCACAF WCQ to play on the wing?

Options start to get REALLY thin people... and its entirely realistic that Paul could get called in. A bit older, national team experience, hard worker, you know what you' get from him and he can do the job against a Guatemala or Jamaica or Panama or Honduras. We don't need a game changer at this point... we just need a result.

That is a wildly realistic scenario. This is the reality of our pool. This is what Berhalter is having to think about with all of our competitions on the horizon.

Some of these guys are going to be here throughout qualifying... but that doesn't mean they'll be here for the WC. See Clarence Goodson, Brad Evans, Michael Parkhurst, Michael Orozco Fiscal in 2014


I'd start Ledezma in that circumstance and wouldn't think twice. I'd move Dest up the pitch, and play Cannon and Robinson. Arriola isn't good enough for the international game.

Lilshmike
Post #161
Wednesday December 2, 2020 9:43pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,576
Original post from cudevil

I'd start Ledezma in that circumstance and wouldn't think twice. I'd move Dest up the pitch, and play Cannon and Robinson. Arriola isn't good enough for the international game.
Look beyond the starting lineup and think of the entire 23 man roster. You wanna start Ledezma... but who is on the bench??

I wouldn't be sold on Ledezma starting a must win against a lower to mid-level CONCACAF team right now. Dest... sure. But Ledezma would be lucky to make the bench in that situation. He would be behind Morris and Llanez in all reality, and if you throw Dest on the wing he would be behind him too. Not only that, but I highly doubt he would be ready for the level of physicality those teams would bring, and if we are on the road, the atmosphere and crappy fields the USMNT will have to deal with.

Its a bird in hand vs 2 in the bush situation. Arriola is as good or better than the opposition we face in CONCACAF outside of Mexico and a couple guys here and there on Canada/Costa Rica/Jamaica. He could absolutely get the job done against almost any team not Mexico.

In a WCQ given that situation, do you take a guaranteed bird in hand by going with Paul? Or go for 2 in the bush by playing Ledezma... a kid with one senior cap and has still been a youth/reserve team player thus far with extremely little first team senior minutes at any level?

The choice is pretty clear cut - regardless of how much you dislike Arriola.

Like I said... its not about finding gamechangers in WCQ... its about qualifying. I'm not a huge Paul fan... but like it or not, hes sticking around throughout this cycle as a depth piece and a guy who will more than certainly help grind out qualifying results...

bjelks
Post #162
Wednesday December 2, 2020 9:56pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,995
Original post from Lilshmike

RE Paul Arriola...

Scenario for you guys...

Weah pulls his hammy again. Pulisic messes up his quad or hammy again. Konrad is still in the reserves. Boyd still rotting on the bench in Turkey. Maybe Covid restrictions are still in place...

Who do we call in for a CONCACAF WCQ to play on the wing?

Options start to get REALLY thin people... and its entirely realistic that Paul could get called in. A bit older, national team experience, hard worker, you know what you' get from him and he can do the job against a Guatemala or Jamaica or Panama or Honduras. We don't need a game changer at this point... we just need a result.

That is a wildly realistic scenario. This is the reality of our pool. This is what Berhalter is having to think about with all of our competitions on the horizon.

Some of these guys are going to be here throughout qualifying... but that doesn't mean they'll be here for the WC. See Clarence Goodson, Brad Evans, Michael Parkhurst, Michael Orozco Fiscal in 2014


Hate to be the bearer of bad news but Konrad debuted with Barca's 1st team in UCL and is back on the bench his day

Weah is set to move in January

Arriola May tear another muscle before Weah does

Sabbi is playing well in Denmark

Ebbiose can play wing

So can Mueller

So can Caden Clark
goalsense
cudevil
Post #163
Wednesday December 2, 2020 11:48pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,206
Original post from Lilshmike

Look beyond the starting lineup and think of the entire 23 man roster. You wanna start Ledezma... but who is on the bench??

I wouldn't be sold on Ledezma starting a must win against a lower to mid-level CONCACAF team right now. Dest... sure. But Ledezma would be lucky to make the bench in that situation. He would be behind Morris and Llanez in all reality, and if you throw Dest on the wing he would be behind him too. Not only that, but I highly doubt he would be ready for the level of physicality those teams would bring, and if we are on the road, the atmosphere and crappy fields the USMNT will have to deal with.

Its a bird in hand vs 2 in the bush situation. Arriola is as good or better than the opposition we face in CONCACAF outside of Mexico and a couple guys here and there on Canada/Costa Rica/Jamaica. He could absolutely get the job done against almost any team not Mexico.

In a WCQ given that situation, do you take a guaranteed bird in hand by going with Paul? Or go for 2 in the bush by playing Ledezma... a kid with one senior cap and has still been a youth/reserve team player thus far with extremely little first team senior minutes at any level?

The choice is pretty clear cut - regardless of how much you dislike Arriola.

Like I said... its not about finding gamechangers in WCQ... its about qualifying. I'm not a huge Paul fan... but like it or not, hes sticking around throughout this cycle as a depth piece and a guy who will more than certainly help grind out qualifying results...


I will take talent over experience almost every time. Experience is hugely overrated, particularly at a position like outside mid.

It's clear that Arriola will, unfortunately, be a part of the set up. It doesn't make it a correct decision and it's not really defensible. He isn't good.

And aside from all that-we do know exactly what we would get from Arriola. Call in other guys that have a chance of being better than him (this is particularly true given that he is just coming off a significant injury).

Dave
Post #164
Thursday December 3, 2020 1:02am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,184
Original post from Lilshmike

RE Paul Arriola...

Scenario for you guys...

Weah pulls his hammy again. Pulisic messes up his quad or hammy again. Konrad is still in the reserves. Boyd still rotting on the bench in Turkey. Maybe Covid restrictions are still in place...

Who do we call in for a CONCACAF WCQ to play on the wing?

Options start to get REALLY thin people... and its entirely realistic that Paul could get called in. A bit older, national team experience, hard worker, you know what you' get from him and he can do the job against a Guatemala or Jamaica or Panama or Honduras. We don't need a game changer at this point... we just need a result.

That is a wildly realistic scenario. This is the reality of our pool. This is what Berhalter is having to think about with all of our competitions on the horizon.

Some of these guys are going to be here throughout qualifying... but that doesn't mean they'll be here for the WC. See Clarence Goodson, Brad Evans, Michael Parkhurst, Michael Orozco Fiscal in 2014


At this point when you look at the wide player options and our pool versatility I don't a see any scenario where Arriola could legitimately be considered an "A" Team player.
Wide Players: Pulisic, Uli, Weah, Reyna (Gregg's belief), & Morris, should all be ahead of him. Konrad, Mueller, Ferreira, Pomykal & Saucedo are at least his equal and have more promise.
Others, guys who can fill in when necessary.
Dest pushed forwards from Outside Back...slot in either Robinson, Cannon, Yedlin
Musah - Pushed from CM to Wide Attacker. slot in Aaronson or push Adams forward and backfill w/ Cardoso or Yueill.
Zardes - as much as I dislike him, he's as good or better than Arriola as a wide attacker.
Boyd - Will be with someone new in January or his club will sell some of the other foreigners to get him cleared to play w/ his current club.
-
Arriola will stick around as a measuring stick for the younger players but he'll mostly be a "B" Team camp call-up going forwards. He'll make the 30 man roster for the Gold Cub in 2021...but the only way he could potentially get a WCQ game at this point is if Pulisic, Reyna, & Morris were all sidelined...and even then he'd be a back-up or emergency replacement. And that's only if some of the others are already in Olympic Qualifying or have a significant drop off.
Simple fact is that Arriola isn't that good and after a serious injury it's unlikely he'll get back into the A-Team picture.

blaise213
Post #165
Thursday December 3, 2020 5:48am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 3,335
Original post from bjelks

Hate to be the bearer of bad news but Konrad debuted with Barca's 1st team in UCL and is back on the bench his day

Weah is set to move in January

Arriola May tear another muscle before Weah does

Sabbi is playing well in Denmark

Ebbiose can play wing

So can Mueller

So can Caden Clark


Petty much agree with this !!

Konrad wasn't given a fair shake!! GB is still an idiot

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