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cudevil
Post #16
Wednesday October 14, 2020 1:43pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,105
Original post from Lilshmike

This is a wildly rational take.


But it isn't. The underlying premise is his is ridiculous notion that DMs shouldn't really exist; that everyone should be 1v1 maestros; and that soccer should all attacking, all the time. Even if he were correct that it would a lot of back passing (a dubious proposition at best-McKennie is a good passer, and Adams is developing that ability as well), having guys that can win balls and maintain possession is critical.

The comparison to Jones/Bradley is wildly misplaced because the issue there was a lack of positional discipline, not that they were similar players. McKennie and Adams can clearly have complementary roles as an 8 and a 6, and Adams is more than disciplined enough to stick in the no. 6 role, while McKennie is box to box.

Lilshmike
Post #17
Wednesday October 14, 2020 1:56pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,509
Original post from cudevil

But it isn't. The underlying premise is his is ridiculous notion that DMs shouldn't really exist; that everyone should be 1v1 maestros; and that soccer should all attacking, all the time. Even if he were correct that it would a lot of back passing (a dubious proposition at best-McKennie is a good passer, and Adams is developing that ability as well), having guys that can win balls and maintain possession is critical.

The comparison to Jones/Bradley is wildly misplaced because the issue there was a lack of positional discipline, not that they were similar players. McKennie and Adams can clearly have complementary roles as an 8 and a 6, and Adams is more than disciplined enough to stick in the no. 6 role, while McKennie is box to box.
No... Jones and Bradley were both Box to Box guys. They both essentially played the same role. Jones was better than Bradley though, and we had no other mids as good as Bradley, so we had to play both. It was only after multiple games, multiple times seeing the two paired together where we could conclude that it didn't fit. Main reason was because we lacked a good 10 - a position where Bradley played at times because he was still better than most of the other guys we had. Bradley and Jones did well in the WC together though, and most of that was because of Beckerman sitting and allowing both Jones and Bradley to roam how they seemed fit.

Your take on McKennie and Adams sounds good in theory... but everyone else thought the same thing before seeing Jones and Bradley paired together.

The truth is that we don't know because we haven't seen the two paired together before... and any talk about how complimentary they're going to be for one another is complete theory until they actually get together on the field.

And seeing as both guys are naturally more defensive minded, and both have and can operate as box to box guys... Blaise could be right. Its not unreasonable to think that those two could end up being like a Jones and Bradley pairing.

I don't think its too likely, because the issue with those guys was a 10, and we have a couple peple who can play that role right now, but we won't know anything until we see them playing side by side over the course of a few games.

Scout92
Lone Star State(Gun State)
Post #18
Wednesday October 14, 2020 3:21pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,494
Original post from blaise213

IMO, I think they're similar players. Mc Kinnie goes forward more but him paired with Adams will just be a shit ton of back passing.


Maybe, maybe not.

cudevil
Post #19
Wednesday October 14, 2020 3:58pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,105
Original post from Lilshmike

No... Jones and Bradley were both Box to Box guys. They both essentially played the same role. Jones was better than Bradley though, and we had no other mids as good as Bradley, so we had to play both. It was only after multiple games, multiple times seeing the two paired together where we could conclude that it didn't fit. Main reason was because we lacked a good 10 - a position where Bradley played at times because he was still better than most of the other guys we had. Bradley and Jones did well in the WC together though, and most of that was because of Beckerman sitting and allowing both Jones and Bradley to roam how they seemed fit.

Your take on McKennie and Adams sounds good in theory... but everyone else thought the same thing before seeing Jones and Bradley paired together.

The truth is that we don't know because we haven't seen the two paired together before... and any talk about how complimentary they're going to be for one another is complete theory until they actually get together on the field.

And seeing as both guys are naturally more defensive minded, and both have and can operate as box to box guys... Blaise could be right. Its not unreasonable to think that those two could end up being like a Jones and Bradley pairing.

I don't think its too likely, because the issue with those guys was a 10, and we have a couple peple who can play that role right now, but we won't know anything until we see them playing side by side over the course of a few games.


I know both Jones and Bradley preferred to play the 8. But being a more natural 8 doesn't preclude someone from playing the 6 so long as they stay within that role. Jones had issues staying at home, and JK didn't want to put Bradley at the 6.

I wouldn't even go so far to say that McKennie is more naturally defensive minded. I think he is an 8, through and through. Adams is a natural 6. They both happen to have huge engines and can cover more ground than your typical 6 and 8 (this is especially true for Adams), but that doesn't change their natural positions.

I'd be shocked if they can't co-exist pretty well.

Lilshmike
Post #20
Wednesday October 14, 2020 4:08pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,509
Original post from cudevil

I know both Jones and Bradley preferred to play the 8. But being a more natural 8 doesn't preclude someone from playing the 6 so long as they stay within that role. Jones had issues staying at home, and JK didn't want to put Bradley at the 6.

I wouldn't even go so far to say that McKennie is more naturally defensive minded. I think he is an 8, through and through. Adams is a natural 6. They both happen to have huge engines and can cover more ground than your typical 6 and 8 (this is especially true for Adams), but that doesn't change their natural positions.

I'd be shocked if they can't co-exist pretty well.
I think they should be able to (in theory) so long as there is a dedicated 10 in front of them who holds the attacking responsibilities.

I agree with your points. I'd say that McKennie has historically been utilized more in a defensive fashion than a box to box or attacking role. But to bring it around, Blaise's take on the possibility of the two having a hard time co-existing isn't a wild thought and he could be right. We have yet to see the two together so we don't know.

But if it doesn't work out or they perform poorly together, its inevitably going to be Berhalter's fault of course...

cudevil
Post #21
Wednesday October 14, 2020 4:45pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,105
Original post from Lilshmike

I think they should be able to (in theory) so long as there is a dedicated 10 in front of them who holds the attacking responsibilities.

I agree with your points. I'd say that McKennie has historically been utilized more in a defensive fashion than a box to box or attacking role. But to bring it around, Blaise's take on the possibility of the two having a hard time co-existing isn't a wild thought and he could be right. We have yet to see the two together so we don't know.

But if it doesn't work out or they perform poorly together, its inevitably going to be Berhalter's fault of course...


Reading his points, it's not so much that he thinks that they can't co-exist. It's that he thinks they are "basic" and will be passing backwards too much. Jones/Bradley couldn't co-exist in a way that created tactical deficiencies. Blaise doesn't believe McKennie and Adams should both be on the field because he doesn't think DM's are important and "best defense is a good offense" type of crap.

Know Nothing
Post #22
Wednesday October 14, 2020 6:08pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,827
New Zealand just pulled out of their scheduled friendly with England in London in November and England are said to be looking to reschedule with someone else. Just saying...

Know Nothing
Post #23
Wednesday October 14, 2020 6:18pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,827
Well this whole topic is centered around Adams and McKennie...fair enough they are our two best midfielders. However, both can be box to box or DM's.

Solution would be to play a 4-3-3 and have someone like EPB as a dedicated DM and play Adams on the right and McKennie on the left.

cudevil
Post #24
Wednesday October 14, 2020 6:49pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,105
Original post from Know Nothing

Well this whole topic is centered around Adams and McKennie...fair enough they are our two best midfielders. However, both can be box to box or DM's.

Solution would be to play a 4-3-3 and have someone like EPB as a dedicated DM and play Adams on the right and McKennie on the left.


Or a 4-2-3-1, with Sargent up top, and Puli, Reyna, and another winger in front of Weston and Adams.

hamsamwich
Post #25
Wednesday October 14, 2020 11:35pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,446
I don't see what the problem is when one of our fullbacks (maybe both) is going to be up by the box. And both wingers and the midfielder in the middle. Not too many national teams attack with more than 5 at any time it's rare. Having those guys hold the fort in the middle while the other guys attack is the point. Also- @blaise, Tyler Adams passing is better than you give him credit for.

blaise213
Post #26
Thursday October 15, 2020 12:41am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 3,179
Original post from hamsamwich

I don't see what the problem is when one of our fullbacks (maybe both) is going to be up by the box. And both wingers and the midfielder in the middle. Not too many national teams attack with more than 5 at any time it's rare. Having those guys hold the fort in the middle while the other guys attack is the point. Also- @blaise, Tyler Adams passing is better than you give him credit for.


I'm sure Adams back passing is wonderful. Like I said, we will see a lack of creative midfield play with two similar players in the middle. Make one the starter and the other the sub.

bjelks
Post #27
Thursday October 15, 2020 3:08am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,753
Original post from blaise213

I'm sure Adams back passing is wonderful. Like I said, we will see a lack of creative midfield play with two similar players in the middle. Make one the starter and the other the sub.


Lol, no matter how progressive their passing is, you will still be stupid. Congrats!

Not to mention Pirlo calls him a box to box.

Guess getting kicked in the head for free in a cage makes you smarter than one of the greatest football minds ever 😂
goalsense
blaise213
Post #28
Thursday October 15, 2020 3:41am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 3,179
Original post from bjelks

Lol, no matter how progressive their passing is, you will still be stupid. Congrats!

Not to mention Pirlo calls him a box to box.

Guess getting kicked in the head for free in a cage makes you smarter than one of the greatest football minds ever 😂


Weird because all the players I always called before anyone ever heard of them are front and center Now. Was calling for Gio Reyna to start 2 years ago. Was taking about Dest at RB before anyone even knew his name.

Holler at your boy McKinnie with Covid 19, Blame China

hamsamwich
Post #29
Thursday October 15, 2020 3:51am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,446
Original post from blaise213

I'm sure Adams back passing is wonderful. Like I said, we will see a lack of creative midfield play with two similar players in the middle. Make one the starter and the other the sub.
I feel like Gregg wants to do just that. But honestly Reyna and Pulisic and these guys like to get the ball in space and attack on the dribble. It's not like they are running for crosses and shit. Adams can surely pass to Pulisic who has checked into space out wide. I don't think Gregg in that setup would be asking either guy to hit some crazy passes, more to just get it to the play makers and let them make the passes and combinations. I still want to see Mendez break through at Ajax I think he offers the kind of passing we need. I'm not in total disagreement that the midfield could be more creative either just that you're wrong that Adams is a back pass machine on that I disagree.

Samtom23
Post #30
Thursday October 15, 2020 7:13am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 455
Original post from hamsamwich

I feel like Gregg wants to do just that. But honestly Reyna and Pulisic and these guys like to get the ball in space and attack on the dribble. It's not like they are running for crosses and shit. Adams can surely pass to Pulisic who has checked into space out wide. I don't think Gregg in that setup would be asking either guy to hit some crazy passes, more to just get it to the play makers and let them make the passes and combinations. I still want to see Mendez break through at Ajax I think he offers the kind of passing we need. I'm not in total disagreement that the midfield could be more creative either just that you're wrong that Adams is a back pass machine on that I disagree.


Just thinking about games, I watched with Adams, I wouldn't say he is a back passer but a safe passer. He isn't like Bradley that can spread the ball across the field on a line. But we don't have depth here. Maybe Carduso or LLeget?

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