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bjelks
Post #16
Wednesday August 26, 2020 12:00am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,920
Original post from Lilshmike

Sargent had 4 league goals last year...

Again, as much as you like to think you're a soccer genius, the reality is that its not exactly clear cut. When you have a forward who scores 4 goals for one of the worst teams in the Bundesliga, vs a forward in MLS who has 10+ goals... there is an argument to be made for the MLS guy.

Yes, understood that MLS isn't on the same level as Bundesliga... but 4 is not a very impressive number. By comparison, Weston McKennie (who is not a forward) had 3 Bundesliga goals last season, only one fewer than Sargent. Should we be making him our forward because he scored a few Bundesliga goals? No.

And if you actually watched him play, it was quite clear that more times than not he got bossed around by defenders. He still has some maturing to do physically if hes going to be able to hack it on the road against Concacaf opponents.

The kid still has some growing up and developing to do. But if we had a WCQ tomorrow, he shouldn't be considered a lock starter - regardless of whatever you want to believe or not.


@lilshmike by that logic, we should call the top scorer in USL, or the top scorer in College, how about the top scorer at your local park...

You're basically saying that league level doesn't matter and we should call whoever is scoring the most wherever they are lol

I don't claim to be a soccer genius, just to have basic common sense and it doesn't make any sense to dismiss a player who plays at a much higher level because you want to promote domestic players

Again That mentality is the reason we didn't qualify

Josh holds his own physically, wins his fair share of battles, works his ass off and does it at a much higher level than the rest of the pool. And the kid has good technique and can create 1v1, but because he's not scoring 20 goals a yr in the domestic semi pro league, you got a problem with him.

I'm calling you out, that's BS and you sound like a fanboy
goalsense
Samtom23
Post #17
Wednesday August 26, 2020 1:40am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 514
Original post from bjelks

@lilshmike by that logic, we should call the top scorer in USL, or the top scorer in College, how about the top scorer at your local park...

You're basically saying that league level doesn't matter and we should call whoever is scoring the most wherever they are lol

I don't claim to be a soccer genius, just to have basic common sense and it doesn't make any sense to dismiss a player who plays at a much higher level because you want to promote domestic players

Again That mentality is the reason we didn't qualify

Josh holds his own physically, wins his fair share of battles, works his ass off and does it at a much higher level than the rest of the pool. And the kid has good technique and can create 1v1, but because he's not scoring 20 goals a yr in the domestic semi pro league, you got a problem with him.

I'm calling you out, that's BS and you sound like a fanboy


Look-the racist speaks out.

Samtom23
Post #18
Wednesday August 26, 2020 2:16am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 514
Original post from stoked-3

Wait a second, you called me crazy for saying a 19 yr old who is training in Baraca A should not get a call into camp, but you are ok with calling Agudelo-based upon what ?

Also since you consistently say the Euro guys have to play, and produce results consistently why would you include Akinola? He played a handful of times last year, this yr he played in a preseason tournament no one was fit and immediately lost his starting spot when jozy came back.. On top of that he is not sold on the USA so no thanks but curious to your logic

Same can be said for Toye does he even start ?

You also mention Sapong-you have consistently told this board that Zardes is the only option based on his performance. I think CJ had more goals than Zardes last yr but yet you didnt call for him-why should he get a look now?

Speaking of just looking at goals shouldn't Ebobisse have received more attention then last yr if he had more goals than Morris? slightly different position but not much-why would you like to see him now?

What has Ramirez shown you?

I get that you like MLS but your above inclusions seem to contradict your requirements for call ups.


I don't necessarily agree with the names put out there Ramirez, Sapong, Toye particurly. I don't see them contributing much.

And I wouldn't put Ebosisse vs Morris unless Seattle moves him back to striker.

But regarding Konrad, he only got a handful of training sessions. It might change with Koeman or not. But this topic is more about strikers and there is more of a problem at this position

I think with Akinola is it a question of Jozy's contract securing his starting status or is quality? This is a question I couldn't answer myself.

Dave
Post #19
Wednesday August 26, 2020 3:01am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,124
Earlier in this thread I offered up what in my opinion was our Striker Options, but the fact of the matter is that there are probably ~15 different names that could be in the discussion. The simple reason for this is that we lack any clear-cut depth chart because No-One has distinguished themselves. We just don't have a Brian McBride or Clint Dempsey in our pool right now.
Add to that injuries, COVID, & a coach who hasn't really tested what players are in the pool and your left with the log-jam of uninspiring options that we're all throwing out there.
All these guys have an equal opportunity:
Sargent, Jozy, ArJo, Zardes, Morris, Ferreira, Wood, Ebobisse, Akinola, Toye, Weah, Reyna, Nova, Sabbi, Soto, Siebatcheu, etc....
The striker position is a total crap shoot with no standout options right now.
-
USSF's dicking around for a year with a coaching search. Greg not exploring/testing what options are out there. COVID-19 Limiting opportunities to have games. And the Players themselves have all contributed to this mess.
We fans just have to hope that someone emerges.

cudevil
Post #20
Wednesday August 26, 2020 3:13am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,165
Original post from Lilshmike

Did I say we should be calling in Agudelo? No, not at all. Did I say we should be calling in Sapong or Ramirez? No, not at all. In fact, my exact quote was:

"I would extend too to Ramirez, Agudelo and Sapong (albeit, they're definitely on the low end of the pool)."

I'm not advocating for calling them up, simply saying that if we are listing out the pool of forwards, Agudelo and Sapong should be in it on the bottom end. Your reading comprehension is really lacking...

With respect to Ebobisse, Akinola and Toye, my exact quote was:

"Ebobisse, Akinola and Toye should be in there. Especially given their ages."

If we are listing out who is in the pool, that would be accurate. Given their young ages, they should be somewhere in the list that Dave (the individual I was replying to, and the list of names he provided) laid out. Not calling for either of them to get called in, just saying that their names should be in the pool. Your reading comprehension is really lacking...

What is your infatuation with continuing to bring up Zardes? Seriously... what is it? Again, your reading comprehension is an issue, because I am not calling for Zardes to get a call up, and I am not saying he is the only option we have. I didn't even mention his name in my post. I have however said this about Zardes in the MLS is Back Tournament thread (post 17 if you are curious), among others in the same thread...

"This isn't new news, I've been saying this since the beginning... but of course, stating the obvious causes people's heads to explode and leads to cries of fanboyism and having some sort of MLS agenda, etc.

The harsh reality is that hes one of the best we've got. Hes been the most consistent forward we've had over the last few years. Am I sayin he is our best? No. Am I saying I would start him? No.

But he is in the conversation for the 23 whether we like it or not. However, simply bringing up and stating the wildly obvious is controversial on this website..."


Again... thank you for proving my last point about bringing up Zardes being controversial...

Its clear you don't like me. You single out my posts consistently and try to get me caught up in "gotcha statements" or demonstrate where I supposedly contradict myself. But again, I will say that your reading comprehension is an issue because my own statements don't support the claims you're trying to make about my stances. Do better next time.


Approving of a selection methodology that results in Zardes starting or being in the top 2-3 is tacitly approving of calling in Zardes. Zardes can't play at the international level. If the selection criteria results in him being run out consistently, then the criteria needs to change.

Know Nothing
Post #21
Wednesday August 26, 2020 3:42pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,880
The simple answer to this problem is...who fits best with Pulisic and Reyna!

I do not care if they are or are not producing or at what level they are playing at. I submit if we cannot get the best out of these two, it does not matter who we play as a striker since it will be highly unlikely we will score.

oldguy
Post #22
Wednesday August 26, 2020 6:41pm

Joined Jan 2017
Total Posts: 20
I tend to agree with Know Nothing. The best fit is a conundrum because right now our strikers are a craps shoot. They are all deficient is some way. So GB picks one and prays that his choice plays above his average. I hope that someone, anyone steps up in the next few months and can show consistent ability and not just highlight ability.

stoked-3
Post #23
Wednesday August 26, 2020 8:04pm

Joined Mar 2020
Total Posts: 137
Original post from Samtom23

I don't necessarily agree with the names put out there Ramirez, Sapong, Toye particurly. I don't see them contributing much.

And I wouldn't put Ebosisse vs Morris unless Seattle moves him back to striker.

But regarding Konrad, he only got a handful of training sessions. It might change with Koeman or not. But this topic is more about strikers and there is more of a problem at this position

I think with Akinola is it a question of Jozy's contract securing his starting status or is quality? This is a question I couldn't answer myself.


I know I was just trying to make the point that if we can call up a guy or rate a guy like Toye who doesnt play much or a guy who doesnt start in mls it shouldn't be an issue to give this kid an invite.

Look I agree with one of your old posts I was not impressed with Konrad at the WC but then again I wasnt impressed with Reyna, could have been they were trying to do to much to compensate for teammates or they just didnt play well.

Im under no illusion that Konrad will not be with the A team nor will make consistent sub appearances--I think he got moved up due to injuries and maybe to increase his value for a potential loan. But it also in part had to do with an acknowledgement that he played well in his B appearances.

My stance will change once WCQ starts regarding calling in guys who are fringe but at this point in time I think now is a time to take a flyer and extend an invite cant hurt. Im looking fwd to the day and i think it is soon where our depth is so good we wont have conversations like this, it will be clear who ever is in best form gets the invite.

The funny thing is Im ok with calling in toye, and CJ Ebois for that same reason.
I really like what I saw from Akilona but I didnt like his stance on the USA-he showed some potential.

Samtom23
Post #24
Thursday August 27, 2020 12:15am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 514
Original post from stoked-3

I know I was just trying to make the point that if we can call up a guy or rate a guy like Toye who doesnt play much or a guy who doesnt start in mls it shouldn't be an issue to give this kid an invite.

Look I agree with one of your old posts I was not impressed with Konrad at the WC but then again I wasnt impressed with Reyna, could have been they were trying to do to much to compensate for teammates or they just didnt play well.

Im under no illusion that Konrad will not be with the A team nor will make consistent sub appearances-I think he got moved up due to injuries and maybe to increase his value for a potential loan. But it also in part had to do with an acknowledgement that he played well in his B appearances.

My stance will change once WCQ starts regarding calling in guys who are fringe but at this point in time I think now is a time to take a flyer and extend an invite cant hurt. Im looking fwd to the day and i think it is soon where our depth is so good we wont have conversations like this, it will be clear who ever is in best form gets the invite.

The funny thing is Im ok with calling in toye, and CJ Ebois for that same reason.
I really like what I saw from Akilona but I didnt like his stance on the USA-he showed some potential.


I haven't followed Akilona's stance so really can't comment.

But in other forward news, Soto has signed with Telstar for the year.

And I believe Nicholas Gioacchini should have a good year with Caen.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #25
Thursday August 27, 2020 1:18am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,125
Original post from Dave

Earlier in this thread I offered up what in my opinion was our Striker Options, but the fact of the matter is that there are probably ~15 different names that could be in the discussion. The simple reason for this is that we lack any clear-cut depth chart because No-One has distinguished themselves. We just don't have a Brian McBride or Clint Dempsey in our pool right now.
Add to that injuries, COVID, & a coach who hasn't really tested what players are in the pool and your left with the log-jam of uninspiring options that we're all throwing out there.
All these guys have an equal opportunity:
Sargent, Jozy, ArJo, Zardes, Morris, Ferreira, Wood, Ebobisse, Akinola, Toye, Weah, Reyna, Nova, Sabbi, Soto, Siebatcheu, etc....
The striker position is a total crap shoot with no standout options right now.
-
USSF's dicking around for a year with a coaching search. Greg not exploring/testing what options are out there. COVID-19 Limiting opportunities to have games. And the Players themselves have all contributed to this mess.
We fans just have to hope that someone emerges.


I like to read your post. I think you are one of the most sensible people on this forum. I like the idea of just starting who pairs up the best with Puli and Reyna. Maybe we should put one of them up top and bring in another winger. We still have some time to figure it out however before WCQ begins.

stoked-3
Post #26
Thursday August 27, 2020 6:18pm

Joined Mar 2020
Total Posts: 137
Original post from Samtom23

I haven't followed Akilona's stance so really can't comment.

But in other forward news, Soto has signed with Telstar for the year.

And I believe Nicholas Gioacchini should have a good year with Caen.


Akinola stance is horrible, I understand it and if I was in his shoes would have said the same thing; while at the same time im annoyed by it as a fan. He basically said he has not made his mind up for who he wants to play for and will make a decision that best fits him-The issue I have with that is he has played for the USA youth teams so are you saying you want a call from Nigeria or Canada bc you feel more of an allegiance to them or bc you dont know if the US would call you in? But looking at our FWD crop I would hope he had enough faith in himself that if he unseats jozy he would get a look for us-but as a fan I would have loved to hear I grew up in the US system so my heart is with the US and if I do not hear from them I will keep my options open ....

As for Soto I have never rated him-I hope he develops but I do not see him as an emerging US star but he could have a mid level good club career I hope.

I do not know enough about Gioacchini and have not seen him play is he a hold up striker a 9 or what is his best position

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #27
Friday August 28, 2020 1:05am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,547
I like Ully, Sargent and Ferriera. With Reyna coming on strong and Puli, I think the focus needs to be on a truly skilled target forward who can hold the ball under pressure and dish it. We don't have a lot of skilled guys who are also a physical presence. I think Sargent might be the best fit for that role currently. I was hoping Wood would come through, but his club situation bottomed out and looks like it took the edge off him mentally.

stoked-3
Post #28
Friday August 28, 2020 1:27am

Joined Mar 2020
Total Posts: 137
Julian green can play up top too, he would be interesting since he has developed into a CAM role he could play a false 9 and could drift out wide if Gio was on they could interchange --He needs to be called up again he has good technical ability

stoked-3
Post #29
Friday August 28, 2020 1:35am

Joined Mar 2020
Total Posts: 137
https://twitter.com/i/status/1299008844220297216

julians second goal today--looks similar to his World Cup goal hopefully that link works

good run and finish

njace007
Post #30
Saturday September 5, 2020 1:26am

Joined Sep 2020
Total Posts: 2
I feel you have to look at this topic from a right now perspective when it comes to the forwards. While it is possibly the weakest area on the field, maybe Left back being a close second, there are some points I'd like to show.

This really comes down to only a couple of players currently that are able to really help in the striking area this qualification. I would have to say the best option is a healthy Jozy Atlidore. His hold up play and physical strength can compliment the speedy forwards in helping run off the ball. If you remember the gold cup game against Mexico, it was a way different game when he was on the pitch as Mexico had to be aware of his hold up play, allowing a more potent attack.

Zardes had his chances. He seems to be like Wil Trapp. A really great MLS player, but not a good international player. He is dyamic, but his lack of finishing in front of goal is something you can not afford against Mexico or other big boys of the world.

The Red Baron, aka Sargent, just needs more time. Hopefully his peak hits at world cup time, but right now he is a third option. The rest are just many players with one main different skill set, or can feature in other positions.

I am a big Ferreria fan now that he is a US national. He's only 19, but may need a move away to a bigger club elsewhere to really grow.

Can we get Jonathon David to do a one time switch from Canada?

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