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hamsamwich
Post #1
Friday August 21, 2020 2:59pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,540
What do you all think about where the players are at? And that's any of them from Jozy to Johansson to Soto to whoever you want-

After watching last nights game (Fire v Crew) it is still apparent Gyasi Zardes will be getting a lot of looks at the #9 spot. It was typical Zardes. All over the field he hustled and helped teammates defend, dropped deep to help link play and sprinted for runs towards goal. He also skied a penalty, looked his usual sloppy self in possession and had more chances for goals than he scored- missing a chance in the 6 yard box because he couldn't control it... the bar is low.

I've always rated Jozy, but I think for now anyways he needs to take a back seat. I picture him as the experienced veteran we call for 3-5 games out of the 14 game cycle and if he's fit he has a chance for the World Cup.

I would of course be starting Sargent because I feel his overall game provides more than the other guys, especially his link up play when compared to Zardes. But he still has to do more to prove that to everyone, especially Gregg.

Johansson has started his long road back, I keep waiting for Bob Wood to appear but that's disappearing. Soto- he's too far away now. Novakovich should get another camp but I don't think he's what Gregg wants there. Ferreira is a long shot, I prefer Pepi from Dallas but he's for the next cycle. These fringe strikers have a long way to go. Of any of the guys not in the current "top 3", I think the player to watch is-

Nicholas Giaocchini who was rumored to be called into camp last time which was cancelled. Big somewhat technical smart and fast, he can impress and jump up a few spots. I did see he was interested in maybe seeing what Jamaica had to offer him but I'm not sure that's a real thing.

cudevil
Post #2
Friday August 21, 2020 5:03pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,165
Sabbi needs a look.

Outside the box: Reyna as a false 9 type role.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #3
Friday August 21, 2020 6:09pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,125
Original post from hamsamwich

What do you all think about where the players are at? And that's any of them from Jozy to Johansson to Soto to whoever you want-

After watching last nights game (Fire v Crew) it is still apparent Gyasi Zardes will be getting a lot of looks at the #9 spot. It was typical Zardes. All over the field he hustled and helped teammates defend, dropped deep to help link play and sprinted for runs towards goal. He also skied a penalty, looked his usual sloppy self in possession and had more chances for goals than he scored- missing a chance in the 6 yard box because he couldn't control it... the bar is low.

I've always rated Jozy, but I think for now anyways he needs to take a back seat. I picture him as the experienced veteran we call for 3-5 games out of the 14 game cycle and if he's fit he has a chance for the World Cup.

I would of course be starting Sargent because I feel his overall game provides more than the other guys, especially his link up play when compared to Zardes. But he still has to do more to prove that to everyone, especially Gregg.

Johansson has started his long road back, I keep waiting for Bob Wood to appear but that's disappearing. Soto- he's too far away now. Novakovich should get another camp but I don't think he's what Gregg wants there. Ferreira is a long shot, I prefer Pepi from Dallas but he's for the next cycle. These fringe strikers have a long way to go. Of any of the guys not in the current "top 3", I think the player to watch is-

Nicholas Giaocchini who was rumored to be called into camp last time which was cancelled. Big somewhat technical smart and fast, he can impress and jump up a few spots. I did see he was interested in maybe seeing what Jamaica had to offer him but I'm not sure that's a real thing.


Sadly I think that Zardes is still currently our #1.
Sargent #2 (would not be surprised or upset if GB picks Sargent as #1)
Josy, Wood, Johansson could all be called if we had to qualify and the other 2 could not play.

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #4
Friday August 21, 2020 10:28pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,386
Agreed on Sabbi.

Jozy had a solid game on Tuesday but his injury proneness limits his playing time. He's only 30 but he's been a pro since he was 17. I Still think he has a potential huge role in qualifying.

Zardes has his obvious limitations.

The ability of Pulisic helps our obvious meh striker options. Sargent is a big body who can hold up the ball. However I think hes a nice option in possession when teams sit in against us. He'll try to pick a pass or backheel which helps because Pulisic makes such good runs. Sargent should move forward as our no 1.

This is all form permitting of course. All the options are whatever right now but someone starts jacking goals I'm in. All the young strikers/center forwards are all nice to see the different styles and strengths and weaknesses. Just waiting one of them to truly push thru.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #5
Friday August 21, 2020 11:06pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,125
Original post from EKneezy

Agreed on Sabbi.

Jozy had a solid game on Tuesday but his injury proneness limits his playing time. He's only 30 but he's been a pro since he was 17. I Still think he has a potential huge role in qualifying.

Zardes has his obvious limitations.

The ability of Pulisic helps our obvious meh striker options. Sargent is a big body who can hold up the ball. However I think hes a nice option in possession when teams sit in against us. He'll try to pick a pass or backheel which helps because Pulisic makes such good runs. Sargent should move forward as our no 1.

This is all form permitting of course. All the options are whatever right now but someone starts jacking goals I'm in. All the young strikers/center forwards are all nice to see the different styles and strengths and weaknesses. Just waiting one of them to truly push thru.


Nice post, tough call on Zardes/Sargent, Sargent has not looked great this season but his surrounding cast really sucked. With Puli and Renya giveing service I think he could do really well. Same with Zardes, they have a lot of similar qualities. I do think that Sargent has more overall quality and should probably start. That being said, I think that GB still has Zardes are our #1. Can't wait for some of these young forwards to break out.

Dave
Post #6
Saturday August 22, 2020 1:00am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,124
IMO....The center forward position is the most concerning with the least appealing options/prospects right now. in my opinion our CF pool options are as follows:
1a) Sargent - Honestly believe that he'll show his club form/stats are misleading, and that when paired with Pulisic & Reyna he'll prove he's are #1.
1b) Morris - I don't see him being left off the 23 and I can't believe he'll stay as a winger with the creative talent that's emerging (Reyna, Weah, Uli, Saucedo, Mendez). Moving to the CF position is the only way he'll stay in the picture much longer.
2a) Jozy - The experienced but often injured and a bit lazy in press defense. I expect him to be around in the discussion until Sargent gains more experience.
2b) Zardes - Provides the high energy & press defense, but his technical abilities & skyrocket shots could have him at out of the picture if the young players start making real progress.
3a) Weah/Reyna - Passable CF's as false 9's, but would prefer them as wing options. Could see either if our winger options (see 1b) prove to be better than striker options. It's a race to see which group earns consistent 1st team minutes faster.
3b) Ferreira - another possible false 9 but may be better suited as a 2nd striker playing under a target guy like Jozy if we ever play a 4-4-2 or a 4-2-3-1. Was impressed with his ability to find little pockets of space in his 1st Cap against CR.
4) Giaocchini - will need to prove himself with the U-23's since he's in the French 2nd division.
5) Nova - a throwback to the old style target CF, but I don't think it fits with the way the USMNT is moving. More of an option if we're playing counter attacking football where we need someone to get on the end of crosses after a break-out.
6) Soto/Sabbi - Need to step up their game to move up the pecking order. Hopefully they'll have an opportunity to this coming season.

Lilshmike
Post #7
Saturday August 22, 2020 7:46pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,549
@Dave

Ebobisse, Akinola and Toye should be in there. Especially given their ages.

If we wanted to throw in Siebatcheu, hes out there in the pool as well.

I would extend too to Ramirez, Agudelo and Sapong (albeit, they're definitely on the low end of the pool).

If Bobby Wood ever gets out of Germany and gets a consistent run of games, he should be thrust into the conversation immediately. He seems comfortable though collecting a check...

Johannsson hasn't proved he can stay healthy and produce consistently... but if he somehow gets back in form and bags double digit goals in Sweden (mid to high teens at least), then he will sneak back in... doubt that happens tho given his track record of injuries.

Samtom23
Post #8
Sunday August 23, 2020 12:26am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 514
The striker pool is a mess. I would even consider making a run at young dual nationals like Balogun and Sanogo. However, I see it highly unlikely they would switch to USA.

With Ebobisse would like to see him continue as he is for awhile.

With Akinola would like to see if Toronto consistently runs him out and gives him playing time over Altidore which I view as unlikely.

Moye-I don't really consider.

Come November, I would like to see lots of strikers called in and I hope FIFA allows an expanded roster considering the March friendlies were lost.

Xardes, Sargent, Ebobisse, Ferriera and Nova. None of these names have really grabbed and locked down the spot.

Know Nothing
Post #9
Sunday August 23, 2020 6:31pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,880
Just thinking outside the box...

There is nothing that says we have to play with a traditional center forward. As Dave sort of suggested, play a false #9. Presumably we will have Dest and Robinson manning the outside back positions, so we have the flanks well covered.

I would not want to lose CP's or Reyna's ball handling skills, so my suggestion would be Weah.

If you prefer a target forward, why not try Miazga? He is good in the air and very good at winding the opposition up. He could be a catalyst for a few yellows in the oppositions CB's. Also, he is not too shabby in front of goal. I also doubt he would be offside too much.

bjelks
Post #10
Tuesday August 25, 2020 3:00pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,920
Lol Josh Sargent is starting and contributing goals in the Bundesliga.
This isn't rocket science.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #11
Tuesday August 25, 2020 3:43pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,549
Original post from bjelks

Lol Josh Sargent is starting and contributing goals in the Bundesliga.
This isn't rocket science.
Sargent had 4 league goals last year...

Again, as much as you like to think you're a soccer genius, the reality is that its not exactly clear cut. When you have a forward who scores 4 goals for one of the worst teams in the Bundesliga, vs a forward in MLS who has 10+ goals... there is an argument to be made for the MLS guy.

Yes, understood that MLS isn't on the same level as Bundesliga... but 4 is not a very impressive number. By comparison, Weston McKennie (who is not a forward) had 3 Bundesliga goals last season, only one fewer than Sargent. Should we be making him our forward because he scored a few Bundesliga goals? No.

And if you actually watched him play, it was quite clear that more times than not he got bossed around by defenders. He still has some maturing to do physically if hes going to be able to hack it on the road against Concacaf opponents.

The kid still has some growing up and developing to do. But if we had a WCQ tomorrow, he shouldn't be considered a lock starter - regardless of whatever you want to believe or not.

stoked-3
Post #12
Tuesday August 25, 2020 5:42pm

Joined Mar 2020
Total Posts: 137
Original post from Lilshmike

@Dave

Ebobisse, Akinola and Toye should be in there. Especially given their ages.

If we wanted to throw in Siebatcheu, hes out there in the pool as well.

I would extend too to Ramirez, Agudelo and Sapong (albeit, they're definitely on the low end of the pool).

If Bobby Wood ever gets out of Germany and gets a consistent run of games, he should be thrust into the conversation immediately. He seems comfortable though collecting a check...

Johannsson hasn't proved he can stay healthy and produce consistently... but if he somehow gets back in form and bags double digit goals in Sweden (mid to high teens at least), then he will sneak back in... doubt that happens tho given his track record of injuries.


Wait a second, you called me crazy for saying a 19 yr old who is training in Baraca A should not get a call into camp, but you are ok with calling Agudelo-based upon what ?

Also since you consistently say the Euro guys have to play, and produce results consistently why would you include Akinola? He played a handful of times last year, this yr he played in a preseason tournament no one was fit and immediately lost his starting spot when jozy came back.. On top of that he is not sold on the USA so no thanks but curious to your logic

Same can be said for Toye does he even start ?

You also mention Sapong-you have consistently told this board that Zardes is the only option based on his performance. I think CJ had more goals than Zardes last yr but yet you didnt call for him-why should he get a look now?

Speaking of just looking at goals shouldn't Ebobisse have received more attention then last yr if he had more goals than Morris? slightly different position but not much-why would you like to see him now?

What has Ramirez shown you?

I get that you like MLS but your above inclusions seem to contradict your requirements for call ups.

Lilshmike
Post #13
Tuesday August 25, 2020 7:32pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,549
Original post from stoked-3

Wait a second, you called me crazy for saying a 19 yr old who is training in Baraca A should not get a call into camp, but you are ok with calling Agudelo-based upon what ?

Also since you consistently say the Euro guys have to play, and produce results consistently why would you include Akinola? He played a handful of times last year, this yr he played in a preseason tournament no one was fit and immediately lost his starting spot when jozy came back.. On top of that he is not sold on the USA so no thanks but curious to your logic

Same can be said for Toye does he even start ?

You also mention Sapong-you have consistently told this board that Zardes is the only option based on his performance. I think CJ had more goals than Zardes last yr but yet you didnt call for him-why should he get a look now?

Speaking of just looking at goals shouldn't Ebobisse have received more attention then last yr if he had more goals than Morris? slightly different position but not much-why would you like to see him now?

What has Ramirez shown you?

I get that you like MLS but your above inclusions seem to contradict your requirements for call ups.
Did I say we should be calling in Agudelo? No, not at all. Did I say we should be calling in Sapong or Ramirez? No, not at all. In fact, my exact quote was:

"I would extend too to Ramirez, Agudelo and Sapong (albeit, they're definitely on the low end of the pool)."

I'm not advocating for calling them up, simply saying that if we are listing out the pool of forwards, Agudelo and Sapong should be in it on the bottom end. Your reading comprehension is really lacking...

With respect to Ebobisse, Akinola and Toye, my exact quote was:

"Ebobisse, Akinola and Toye should be in there. Especially given their ages."

If we are listing out who is in the pool, that would be accurate. Given their young ages, they should be somewhere in the list that Dave (the individual I was replying to, and the list of names he provided) laid out. Not calling for either of them to get called in, just saying that their names should be in the pool. Your reading comprehension is really lacking...

What is your infatuation with continuing to bring up Zardes? Seriously... what is it? Again, your reading comprehension is an issue, because I am not calling for Zardes to get a call up, and I am not saying he is the only option we have. I didn't even mention his name in my post. I have however said this about Zardes in the MLS is Back Tournament thread (post 17 if you are curious), among others in the same thread...

"This isn't new news, I've been saying this since the beginning... but of course, stating the obvious causes people's heads to explode and leads to cries of fanboyism and having some sort of MLS agenda, etc.

The harsh reality is that hes one of the best we've got. Hes been the most consistent forward we've had over the last few years. Am I sayin he is our best? No. Am I saying I would start him? No.

But he is in the conversation for the 23 whether we like it or not. However, simply bringing up and stating the wildly obvious is controversial on this website..."


Again... thank you for proving my last point about bringing up Zardes being controversial...

Its clear you don't like me. You single out my posts consistently and try to get me caught up in "gotcha statements" or demonstrate where I supposedly contradict myself. But again, I will say that your reading comprehension is an issue because my own statements don't support the claims you're trying to make about my stances. Do better next time.

Lilshmike
Post #14
Tuesday August 25, 2020 7:48pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,549
@stoked-3

Also, why did you conveniently leave out the non-MLS names I threw out (Siebatcheu, Wood, Johansson) when trying to call me a hypocrite? Did it not fit your narrative?

Nothing I said in that post was inaccurate. I added a few names that Dave left out. Again, if you were to list off forward pool, they should be in that list.

And this isn't a "MLS vs non-MLS" debate... This is simply stating who would be in our pool. And to be honest, do we really have any guys outside of MLS who are producing respectable numbers to where they can definitively say they deserve to be our number one striker?

I think the answer to that question is no. In fact, I don't think anyone in our entire pool has genuinely done anything to warrant being our number one striker.

In my own opinion, depending on who we are playing and the situation of the game (WCQ, friendly, good opponent, bad opponent, everyone healthy, lots of injures, etc.), I don't believe there is a single person we could look to as a sure fire lock and starter.

hamsamwich
Post #15
Tuesday August 25, 2020 11:49pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,540
I didn't mention potentially the most talented player, Tim Weah. I honestly think these injuries are a real problem. He really needs to be playing at this age and surgically repaired hamstrings are a red flag. But if he can get his athleticism back, I see Weah as the kind of player we need in or around the starting XI. If the front three were Pulisic, Sargent and Reyna I think we can all see that Weah would be that guy off the bench, as he could come in out wide or up top.

Part of the process that gets annoying for me (all of us) is when Berhalter picks a lot of the same guys and that's for a reason. His "group". And although we all know (and he does too) that the "group" hasn't yet involved all the talented players, they are building cohesion and depth. When the forward line is those guys I just mentioned (or something similar, ie. a cohesive unit who understands their teammates movements)- when the midfield sub is McKennie- that's when we see the team take a forward step.

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