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dolcem
Post #31
Thursday November 22, 2012 7:50am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
Original post from Coach Kev

Most of our CBs have been in the MLS when they started playing for the Nats. DeMerit is the real exception in there.

As much as I love Gooch, he is terrible now. The injuries seem to have taken a toll on everything from his speed, jumping, and most importantly his decision making.


Key word STARTED. I'm fine with promising MLS center-backs getting in our system but in the World Cup I want guys back there with European experience. I'm not a MLS hater at all and have no qualms with MLS guys starting for us if they're good enough. CB is the one exception, unless they are really, really good or spent a long time in Europe and haven't been back in the MLS long (eg if Bocanegra moved back to the MLS and showed he could still hack it, I'd be OK with him playing for us since our other options are terrible).

Original post from Bottlcaps

How many US center backs played in the CL today? ( All those who said one, take a bow) The only center back playing in the UEFA CL was Onyewu and he started and went the 90 for Malaga. Whomever said he's slow and over the hill,Malaga & La Liga agrees to differ.

In fact I would like to argue that although Cameron has earned his starts in the USMNT, he is still green and made more than a few errors against Russia.

Omar Gonzales is playing in his second MLS Cup next week and anchors a Galaxy Backline that when they are all healthy and playing, are arguably the best in the MLS. Gonzales return from injury in May coincided with their resurgence that led the Galaxy having the best record in the second half of the season. The Galaxy did something that even Chelsea could not do; contain Wondolowski and Eddie Johnson.

Onyewu and Gonzales should have thier ticket punched to at leat a training camp if not a spot on the 18/22


I agree that Cameron is still a bit green but he just started playing for us and just moved to the Premiership. Once he has more experience for both us and Stoke he'll improve. Him and Boca are our two best CB's at the moment by far (after that it's Parkhurst and Goodson, and they're much worse IMO).

Gonzalez is slow and not technically gifted. He also makes a lot of mistakes. All he has going for him is size. He is a poor man's Onyewu IMO. If he goes to Europe and succeeds than I'd be very open to seeing him play for us. But at the moment I don't know if I trust an MLS CB, and not Gonzalez. And anyway, NO WAY we can start two CB's like that. We need at least one CB to be able to play the ball out of the back. And if we have a slow CB, the other has to be fast to cover for his mistakes. Not sure if you were recommending we play them as a CB pairing, but if you were, I strongly disagree.

As far as Onyewu goes, seems there are very divergent opinions about him. I think his experience and club CV (including recent teams, starter at Sporting last season, playing some for Malaga now) is better than anyone in our pool. No CB's are playing for teams as good as Sporting and Malaga. Last time he played for us he looked bad but he was coming off an injury. Because we are so desperate at CB he should be given another chance.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT LINEUP YOU USE IN FIFA
dolcem
Post #32
Thursday November 22, 2012 8:03am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
Oh and I forgot two other players:

Tim Ream. What do you guys think? In theory he'd be the perfect guy to pair with Cameron: he's comfortable on the ball and is still young and could improve by 2014. He also won rookie of the year pretty recently, if I remember correctly. He was awful the season after that but that's how the MLS works sometimes (form there is pretty random) and obviously he has talent because Bolton bought him. They will be stuck in the Championship until the WC at least though, which is a problem. I know he has played some for Bolton this season, has anyone seen him? We're so desperate at CB that I'd be willing to see him given a chance.

Orozco-fiscal: Just got realized by San Luis. People hated him when played for us but I think a lot of the criticism was unjustified, I thought he looked OK for us. And the fact that he starts at CB for us in Mexico means his club resume is better than all of our CB's except for Onyewu and Cameron. And of course there was the goal at Azteca. I'd be willing to give him another shot.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT LINEUP YOU USE IN FIFA
Bshredder
Post #33
Thursday November 22, 2012 2:09pm

Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts: 1,459
Original post from dolcem

Oh and I forgot two other players:

Tim Ream. What do you guys think? In theory he'd be the perfect guy to pair with Cameron: he's comfortable on the ball and is still young and could improve by 2014. He also won rookie of the year pretty recently, if I remember correctly. He was awful the season after that but that's how the MLS works sometimes (form there is pretty random) and obviously he has talent because Bolton bought him. They will be stuck in the Championship until the WC at least though, which is a problem. I know he has played some for Bolton this season, has anyone seen him? We're so desperate at CB that I'd be willing to see him given a chance.

Orozco-fiscal: Just got realized by San Luis. People hated him when played for us but I think a lot of the criticism was unjustified, I thought he looked OK for us. And the fact that he starts at CB for us in Mexico means his club resume is better than all of our CB's except for Onyewu and Cameron. And of course there was the goal at Azteca. I'd be willing to give him another shot.


No and No

Orozco Fiscal is not better than most MLS CBs. Remember when he played for Philly?

Mexican league is better than MLS but not by a huge margin. There is a huge overlap.

dolcem
Post #34
Thursday November 22, 2012 5:15pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
Original post from Bshredder

No and No

Orozco Fiscal is not better than most MLS CBs. Remember when he played for Philly?

Mexican league is better than MLS but not by a huge margin. There is a huge overlap.


Well first of all, Herculez Gomez never did well in the MLS and he is a very good player. And of course lots of players who aren't any good haven't succeed in the MLS. Sometimes good players don't do well in the MLS if they can't adjust to the MLS' style. Orozco should be judged by how he as done throughout his career, and that has been starting in a good league.

I don't think Orozco is that bad and he looked OK for us when he played (other than one poor game). Do I think he is better than Berry and Besler? I think he might be. Meaning he deserves another shot.

Don't get me wrong, Orozco is no good. And Ream has been terrible for a while. But our other options at CB are awful. And Ream at least is playing in Europe it's obvious he has the talent and if he starts doing well for Bolton than he should get a call-up.

Who do you think should line up next to Cameron? All of our options are bad. IMO Parkhurst is our best bet. That's how bad things are. But I don't think Orozco or Ream (if he starts getting PT for Bolton) are that far off. Until we get another good CB, we need to start considering players like this to replace Bocanegra, as sad as that is.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT LINEUP YOU USE IN FIFA
twr96
Post #35
Thursday November 22, 2012 6:46pm

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 8
Someone correct me if I am wrong, but Spector can play CB and unlike our other options he is currently starting for his team. Spector isn't my number choice. Spector has experience, he is an average defender, he starts for his team, and in the recent USMNT he has played in he hasn't made a costly mistake. He is also faster than Boca, Goodson, and Oguchi.

dolcem
Post #36
Thursday November 22, 2012 7:05pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
Original post from twr96

Someone correct me if I am wrong, but Spector can play CB and unlike our other options he is currently starting for his team. Spector isn't my number choice. Spector has experience, he is an average defender, he starts for his team, and in the recent USMNT he has played in he hasn't made a costly mistake. He is also faster than Boca, Goodson, and Oguchi.


Don't know why I forgot to add him to the list. He could definitely be a ball-playing CB. Not a great choice but because of our lack of options he should definitely be given a shot.
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT ABOUT WHAT LINEUP YOU USE IN FIFA
Bshredder
Post #37
Thursday November 22, 2012 10:03pm

Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts: 1,459
Original post from dolcem

Well first of all, Herculez Gomez never did well in the MLS and he is a very good player. And of course lots of players who aren't any good haven't succeed in the MLS. Sometimes good players don't do well in the MLS if they can't adjust to the MLS' style. Orozco should be judged by how he as done throughout his career, and that has been starting in a good league.

I don't think Orozco is that bad and he looked OK for us when he played (other than one poor game). Do I think he is better than Berry and Besler? I think he might be. Meaning he deserves another shot.

Don't get me wrong, Orozco is no good. And Ream has been terrible for a while. But our other options at CB are awful. And Ream at least is playing in Europe it's obvious he has the talent and if he starts doing well for Bolton than he should get a call-up.

Who do you think should line up next to Cameron? All of our options are bad. IMO Parkhurst is our best bet. That's how bad things are. But I don't think Orozco or Ream (if he starts getting PT for Bolton) are that far off. Until we get another good CB, we need to start considering players like this to replace Bocanegra, as sad as that is.


You lost me when you said Herc never did well in MLS

And there is no way Orozco Fiscal is better than Omar or Besler

camparkinson
Post #38
Thursday November 22, 2012 10:39pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 169
Yea why is anyone talking about Fiscal? And why would anyone bring up Ream other than way way down the depth chart?

MLS has produced many of the best players on the USMNT and the league has gotten a lot better since that time also.

I don't think anyone would disagree that Howard, Bradley, Dempsey, Donovan are the best 4 US players... all came from MLS and of course Donovan is still there.

Coach Kev
Savannah, GA
Post #39
Friday November 23, 2012 1:48am

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 283
Original post from Bshredder

You lost me when you said Herc never did well in MLS

And there is no way Orozco Fiscal is better than Omar or Besler


me too.

Oh and I remember Fiscal having one good game not one bad game.
Bayern fan and American Outlaw
admsghs27
Post #40
Friday November 23, 2012 8:27am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 3,167
To be honest cameron is ok but i guarantee he wont start in brazil,, he will get massacred... Gonzo is much better than him... Fabian is a lock, gonzo will be a lock.. right back is open to be honest i dont think timmy is a lock a battle will go on for right back... As of now dolo is better than chandler... The other cb is between cameron, brooks,, parkhurst,, bocanegra...

USnLFCfan
Savannah GA
Post #41
Friday November 23, 2012 9:00pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,199
Original post from admsghs27

To be honest cameron is ok but i guarantee he wont start in brazil,, he will get massacred... Gonzo is much better than him... Fabian is a lock, gonzo will be a lock.. right back is open to be honest i dont think timmy is a lock a battle will go on for right back... As of now dolo is better than chandler... The other cb is between cameron, brooks,, parkhurst,, bocanegra...


I guarantee you that Cameron will be starting....and as far as getting massacred, if you think that Cameron would get massacred over Gonzo then you might be crazy. The only thing that Gonzo has over Cameron is the tactical defensive reading of the game....Cameron is just has good in the air, much faster, better with the ball at his feet, better passer, etc etc.....Cameron will only improve in that area playing in the PL. The one thing Gonzo needs to make him a quality international CB is the things he can't fix which is top end speed and lateral quickness.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #42
Saturday November 24, 2012 1:08am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 5,028
Original post from USnLFCfan

I guarantee you that Cameron will be starting....and as far as getting massacred, if you think that Cameron would get massacred over Gonzo then you might be crazy. The only thing that Gonzo has over Cameron is the tactical defensive reading of the game....Cameron is just has good in the air, much faster, better with the ball at his feet, better passer, etc etc.....Cameron will only improve in that area playing in the PL. The one thing Gonzo needs to make him a quality international CB is the things he can't fix which is top end speed and lateral quickness.


Agreed. Cameron is much better than Gonzo. Anyone can see that. I like Gonzo, but to claim he is batter than Cameron is a little asenine.

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