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cudevil
Post #16
Saturday August 29, 2020 2:43am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,206
Original post from bjelks

Y'all were hyping him as a Bundesliga player and now he's going to be on a bottom tier Portuguese club getting smacked every weekend 🤣.

He's not young, he's 22. The development yrs for a footballer are 16-20. The best player in the last WC was 19.

Our best player in the last cycle was 17. Our best RB was starting for Ajax at 18. Good luck to him but I doubt he ever he gets to a top 4 league. Maybe France, but this is gonna be hard for him, getting smacked every weekend.

I think Sergino is talented, so does Barca, Juve, and PSG. A bottom tier Portuguese team picked up Cannon off the scrap heap. That's how talented he is.


This is an insane hill to die on and wholly divorced from reality. 22 is young. End of. La Liga in Portugal is a good league. The sites I saw had it neck and neck with the Eresdivisie at worst. Boavista is more of a mid table team. On top of that, there are 100 reasons why he might end up at Boacista vs. a Bundes team that don't reflect on his skill level or ceiling. The idea that you think this move somehow proves your point is crazy.

Samtom23
Post #17
Saturday August 29, 2020 3:44am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 558
Original post from Dave

Is this the move most of us thought or wanted....No. But it's better than going to some of the other places US Players have landed over the years (3rd tier in Spain or England).
The best player in the last WC being 19 is misleading. That's not a excepted norm, and was heavily influenced by the talent around him. Most WC squads have an average age of 27....which is the prime age for footballers.
Cannon being 22 he can still refine his game and be a viable back-up & contributor this cycle....and will/should be overtaken with a younger option for 2026 cycle.
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Sergino should be the starting RB for the USMNT (A. Robinson should be the starting LB)...which leaves Cannon as only a back-up. His competition for the back-up role is either Yedlin (a bench player for Newcastle), Moore (a 2nd/3rd division player in Spain), or Chandler (an aging back who's often been injured).
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The fact our best player last cycle was 17 is a disgrace...and a major reason we failed to qualify. Every country hopes to have a prodigy (Messi, Ronaldo, etc...), but the simple fact of the matter is that these are rare talents. Most successful WC Teams have a core of players around 25-27 who are experienced and playing at high levels...with a sprinkling of young starlets (18-23) & Solid Veterans (28-32).
Due to our "Lost Generation" and some poor development, the current core of the USMNT is extremely young Averaging ~22.7 yrs (Pulisic, Adams, McKennie, Reyna, Dest, A. Robinson, Brooks, Steffen). This is not the norm nor should it be the desired make-up of a WC Team. We are in a poor spot right now in that we lack any quality players in optimal age bracket....so are depending on a bunch of kids.
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The bar for this cycle should be for our core of players to gain invaluable experience so that in the 2026 cycle they can truly "Lead" the team, and make a serious statement.


Soccer is a young man's game as Didier Deschamps said. I get what your saying about leading the team but I disagree. The goal should be to win it all. If it isn't realistic, I think ideally those kids believing we can win will make a better performance in 2022.

Also, I think we have more potential at LB and RB than realized. I am looking forward to seeing Antonee ar LB to see how he pairs with Pulisic.

Other LB options that are emerging are Gloster, Bello and Hernandez Foster but would like to see the latter in first team before calling him in.

RB- Dest, Cannon, I think emerging is Aruejo for the Galaxy. He was played at wing some last week Shaq Moore, I previously mentioned Kyle Duncan but he isn't having the season he had prior to the Covid break.

Personally, I don't want to see Chandler because too old and he is seasoned pro but I don't see how he fits beyond 2022. Yedlin is there but he has limitations in his game offensively.

Samtom23
Post #18
Saturday August 29, 2020 4:15am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 558
Original post from cudevil

This is an insane hill to die on and wholly divorced from reality. 22 is young. End of. La Liga in Portugal is a good league. The sites I saw had it neck and neck with the Eresdivisie at worst. Boavista is more of a mid table team. On top of that, there are 100 reasons why he might end up at Boacista vs. a Bundes team that don't reflect on his skill level or ceiling. The idea that you think this move somehow proves your point is crazy.


I wouldn't worry about Bjelks. The dude is challenged in more ways than one can imagine. I wouldn't really try to engage with a debate because it goes sour every time. But what gets me is he seems to be actively rooting against a young fellow American.

Dave
Post #19
Saturday August 29, 2020 5:28am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,184
Original post from Samtom23

Soccer is a young man's game as Didier Deschamps said. I get what your saying about leading the team but I disagree. The goal should be to win it all. If it isn't realistic, I think ideally those kids believing we can win will make a better performance in 2022.

Also, I think we have more potential at LB and RB than realized. I am looking forward to seeing Antonee ar LB to see how he pairs with Pulisic.

Other LB options that are emerging are Gloster, Bello and Hernandez Foster but would like to see the latter in first team before calling him in.

RB- Dest, Cannon, I think emerging is Aruejo for the Galaxy. He was played at wing some last week Shaq Moore, I previously mentioned Kyle Duncan but he isn't having the season he had prior to the Covid break.

Personally, I don't want to see Chandler because too old and he is seasoned pro but I don't see how he fits beyond 2022. Yedlin is there but he has limitations in his game offensively.


I agree that soccer is a young mans game, but it's also a thinking mans game. The fluid nature of the game requires players to read the oppositions movements and devise a way to defeat/exploit it. That takes time to develop, hence the average age of WC players is mid to late 20's. Still prime of their physical abilities but tempered with 5+ years of top level club experience.
Yes you always play to win...and on our day we can play/frustrate just about any team in the world. We did it against Spain in 2009 and we did it against France before the 2018 WC. But to do it consistently and without going into a bunker takes skilled & experienced players. We have some highly talented/skilled players emerging, but they lack the experience that helps insure consistent performances. In 2 years time I think our core group of players will surprise teams...and be able to punish anyone who takes us lightly. But there are going to be growing pains along the way and Berhaulter needs to jettison some of the dead weight from the player pool.
I wasn't trying to limit who's in contention for either the RB or LB positions. Just pointing out that based on recent club form we're discussing who will will basically be the back-ups to Dest & A. Robinson in 2 years. I agree that there are other potential options (Gloster, Moore, etc...), but most of them need to advance from their club's youth teams before we can really consider them for our WCQ Games next summer. The names I pointed to were some of bjelks recommendations from previous postings/arguments against MLS players like Cannon.
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I honestly believe we have a very nice foundation being built...but we're not likely to see the finished product until after the 2022 world cup....when our young core of players have matured a bit more and we can add even more talent to the player pool. Some names are already starting to make their way into the conversation for the next break-out star...ala Pulisic & Reyna (Richards, Otasowie, Booth, Cardoso, Milijevic, De La Fuente, Mendez, etc...). Will some of these names make it to the 2022 roster...it's possible, but unlikely with the limited time remaining. These are more likely the names that will be added after 2022 that will push out some players (Brooks, Holmes, Green, etc...) while also forcing the core of the 2022 team to stay hungry and not become complacent.

hamsamwich
Post #20
Saturday August 29, 2020 3:04pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,637
Boavista is basically Lille's new feeder team. Sort of Girona and Nac Breda for Man city, or vitesse for Chelsea, or Red Bulls for Red Bull....

Portugal is the exact sort of league we want Reggie playing in. He should play all the time with a view to being sold to a bigger club. I want him to actually develop his shortcomings not go as he currently is to a bigger team and not play. His attacking third things need refinement.

stoked-3
Post #21
Sunday August 30, 2020 2:03am

Joined Mar 2020
Total Posts: 168
This is a good move. IHe will be overseas challenging himself daily, with better depth than mls so he will need to practice well during the week to see the pitch and he will be out of his comfort. This is what we want from our NAT hopefulls this is better than going to a bigger team and not playing. I think he could have went to a bigger team but not sure there were a ton of offers, not sure if that says more about MLS or Reggie but good on him to make the move

@Ham your right they are a feeder team--I bet he plays well, or at least how he has played in mls, bigger clubs who dont rate mls will then be interested and hopefully thats lille. IF he is still at Boavista 3 yrs from now that will be disappointing but my bet it is a 1 or 2 yr max play to move on to a bigger club. Im hoping he does well bc i would like to see dest tried out up the field. Cannon is a better defender who doesnt offer much going fwd--Dest's skills are world class in my opinion and he likes to go fwd while he needs work on his defending -

bjelks
Post #22
Sunday August 30, 2020 8:29pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,995
We have Weah, Konrad, Reyna, Harper who can play right wing.

All of those guys are clearly better than Cannon.

Why would we move Dest out of his best position to play Cannon over guys he's not better than?

Cannon's not better then Dest defensively. Dest has locked up Davies lol. You can't ask for anything more than that.

Maybe Cannon is at a bottom tier Portuguese side bc better clubs have highly trained expert scouts that see the obvious technical limitations in his game.
goalsense
cudevil
Post #23
Sunday August 30, 2020 10:40pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,206
Original post from bjelks

We have Weah, Konrad, Reyna, Harper who can play right wing.

All of those guys are clearly better than Cannon.

Why would we move Dest out of his best position to play Cannon over guys he's not better than?

Cannon's not better then Dest defensively. Dest has locked up Davies lol. You can't ask for anything more than that.

Maybe Cannon is at a bottom tier Portuguese side bc better clubs have highly trained expert scouts that see the obvious technical limitations in his game.


You should really let this go. You are trying (and failing) to score cheap debate points when, in any other circumstance, you'd be lauding this kind of move.

bjelks
Post #24
Sunday August 30, 2020 11:14pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,995
Original post from cudevil

You should really let this go. You are trying (and failing) to score cheap debate points when, in any other circumstance, you'd be lauding this kind of move.


I've let it go, but I'm not gonna praise a player for moving to a club that's barely better than his MLS club after hearing that he's Bundesliga quality.

And I think it's ridiculous to suggest playing a clearly better player out of position (Dest) or on the bench (Weah, Konrad or Reyna) for a clearly inferior player (Cannon).
goalsense
Samtom23
Post #25
Monday August 31, 2020 1:17am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 558
Original post from bjelks

I've let it go, but I'm not gonna praise a player for moving to a club that's barely better than his MLS club after hearing that he's Bundesliga quality.

And I think it's ridiculous to suggest playing a clearly better player out of position (Dest) or on the bench (Weah, Konrad or Reyna) for a clearly inferior player (Cannon).


Why listen to anything you have to say? You spit racism and homophobia when challenged on your opinion. And you try to preen like your some soccer guru, when you personally haven't done jack shit professionally.

Go Cannon, he's a young American, hope he does well! And proves ignorant, racist, homophobic individuals like yourself wrong. All the power to him and for truly supporting individuals and American soccer.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #26
Monday August 31, 2020 2:19am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,200
[quote]Original post from Samtom23

Why listen to anything you have to say? You spit racism and homophobia when challenged on your opinion. And you try to preen like your some soccer guru, when you personally haven't done jack shit professionally.

Go Cannon, he's a young American, hope he does well! And proves ignorant, racist, homophobic individuals like yourself wrong. All the power to him and for truly

So recently I called Bjelks out on two players who he used to say should start for the Nats. They played 2nd tier in Germany and he talked about how it was a higher level then MLS. Both players moved to MLS and failed to make any impact. He didn't respond at all for a few days then finally commented that he never said that. LOL, so untrue. I think that our players should play abroad if they can move into the right situation. I don't think they need to move to sit on the bench. I think Cannon is moving into a good situation.

hamsamwich
Post #27
Monday August 31, 2020 4:41am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,637
I mean Cannon is there to work on his attacking movements, timing and I teray. Of course he will be brought up to a higher technical level and that can only be good. Minutes and development are the key for our players. Not long ago we would've been jumping up and down that we had a guy starting in the Portuguese league. There have been a few but not so many Americans accomplish this. The next thing for Reggie to do is stand out in a second country as he has done in MLS.

cudevil
Post #28
Monday August 31, 2020 1:27pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,206
Original post from bjelks

I've let it go, but I'm not gonna praise a player for moving to a club that's barely better than his MLS club after hearing that he's Bundesliga quality.

And I think it's ridiculous to suggest playing a clearly better player out of position (Dest) or on the bench (Weah, Konrad or Reyna) for a clearly inferior player (Cannon).


The league is head and shoulders above the MLS. Boavista finished top half of the table 3 of the last 4 years. You are committed to this idea that Cannon sucks. It is being shown that he doesn't. If Cannon had been a European academy product, you'd be pimping him non-stop by virtue of this move. The whole argument is totally disingenuous.

stoked-3
Post #29
Monday August 31, 2020 3:54pm

Joined Mar 2020
Total Posts: 168
Original post from bjelks

We have Weah, Konrad, Reyna, Harper who can play right wing.

All of those guys are clearly better than Cannon.

Why would we move Dest out of his best position to play Cannon over guys he's not better than?

Cannon's not better then Dest defensively. Dest has locked up Davies lol. You can't ask for anything more than that.

Maybe Cannon is at a bottom tier Portuguese side bc better clubs have highly trained expert scouts that see the obvious technical limitations in his game.


Im not advocating for Cannon to start at RB but I do like that he left mls and I am sure he will get better and its great to have depth-what I would like to see (and who knows if Dest wants to place in an advanced role) but would be to see him pushed up higher, slide Reyna underneath Weah as Striker, have adams (although I dont like this idea) to RB as he is currently playing for club.

While i would call Konrad in camp to see where he is at, he wouldnt be a starter but I want him to get invited to camp to gauge he current level,

for me Dest is a guaranteed starter whether its right back or up the field. but my stance just like calling fringe guys in is now is a time we can experiment-my mind changes on call ups and formation experiments once we start WCQ

Lilshmike
Post #30
Monday August 31, 2020 6:29pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,576
As a reminder...

bjelks has made numerous claims that guys like Lynden Gooch (who plays in League One), Romain Gall (an MLS washout on the books of a Swedish team, out on loan to a Norwegian team), and Konrad (only recently starting to play in the third tier of Spain after moving up from youth teams) should get called into the mens national team...

...and even in this thread brought up Cameron Harper (a kid he has never seen because he is playing in the reserves of a Scottish team and has never played a senior minute)...

...yet he is bashing Reggie Cannon because hes moving to a better league and level than all of those players... oh, and due to his "old" age of 22 (reminder that Gooch is 24 and Gall is 25)...

That is a prime example of mental gymnastics. It is complete lunacy, wildly contradictory, and hypocritical to say the least. Its crap like this why I continue to call out the guy. He took the stance that all MLS sucks and he is unwilling to move if anything positive happens to any player he (or Brian Kleiban) hasn't personally touted. The stuff he spews is just complete and utter nonsense.

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