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bjelks
Post #76
Saturday May 9, 2020 4:01pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,046
You can't create competition with guys that don't have the quality, ability, pedigree to compete.

I'm just going to put this out there. The clowns at every major network in this country including espn have no idea what they're talking about and I don't respect them. Their sole purpose is to hype mls/ sum products.

If you want Josh to earn his spot then you should demand that he continue to fight for his spot and produce in the Bundesliga.

I don't know where you get your news from but Kobe signed with Wolfsburg in February and is set to join this summer. Just like Gio and Ully, he's projected to join the 1st team by Spring ‘21 so it's very possible.

Few corrections, mls is a 3rd tier league not a 2nd. It's closer to league one than the Championship.
EPB, Miazga, Adams all left mls by 20. Mckennie has never played in mls.
Duncan and Miles are 23.

Before EPB, Adams, Miazga, Wes, made the jump and established themselves they weren't rated as national team players. It doesn't make sense to leapfrog established Euro players like Yedlin and Chandler at Rb and Miazga and EPB at CB for Miles and Duncan who are past their developmental years and unproven at even the 2nd tier.

Euro clubs like Americans Under 20 bc they can develop and sell them. Miles and Duncan are too old to be considered high potential players and they can't compete with guys that are much more proven than them especially at younger ages like EPB, Richards, Antonee and Kobe.
goalsense
Samtom23
Post #77
Sunday May 10, 2020 11:23am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 574
Good players can play in weaker leagues so you can create competition.

Let's switch to American football for an analogy.

Example 1: Terrell Owens-University team-Mcneese State. Now that team was a division II or III team. So Terrell became one of the best receivers of all time and he came from a second tier or third tier league. The NFL draft proves it to us every year when they draft division 2 and 3 players. You must be willing to evaluate on your own.

And again, I am not debating if MLS is second or third tier league. I am just saying you find talent players wherever they are. You are correct McKennie never played with MLS. Duncan is 22 years old so I don't think we can put him out to pasture just yet. And he may have a terrible season once the season resumes.

To say that EPB, Adams, Weston, Miagza is not totally accurate because they were involved in are youth teams and in some cases debuted prior to moving to Europe but were not mainstays in the line up.

As far as commentators as clowns, you are entitled to your opinion. But listen to someone like Herc Gomez that has connections to the players and the USMNT, I wouldn't call someone like that a clown. But that's my opinion and we differ and nothing wrong with having different opinions. I was pointing out a story that was analysing data.

Nothing wrong with Yedlin and Chandler but they are known quantities and the next camp is probably the last chance to build competition because 2021 is about chemistry and qualifying.

But Richards and Kobe are unproven. Especially, Kobe, the only thing he has proved is that he can sign his name. After one year, more will be known about those two.

Lastly, to everyone here including you Bjelks, enjoy Mother's Day with your families.

bjelks
Post #78
Sunday May 10, 2020 5:17pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,046
You can create competition without picking guys that are in inferior leagues over guys in better leagues. I'm sorry man that doesn't make any sense. No other country in the world does that. If the USA basketball dream team, purposely didn't pick the best players because they wanted to give chances to D-league and Euro League players, experts would call this clown behavior.

I wouldn't agree the American football analogy would apply for several reasons. There is no such thing as a draft in soccer outside of mls. Most players enter the NFL after 21, most top level soccer players play their first first team games before 18. TO's football development was in line with the standard development for nfl players being that he played in a competitive college environment and was drafted very high for his position group. Duncan and Miles do not have the pedigree or standard development for a top level soccer player considering their college and 5th Division France pedigrees, extended time in mls and ages. Also TO went to UT- Chattanooga not Mcneese.

I do agree you find talent wherever it is, which makes me question why you would prioritize targeting players past their developmental ages in less competitive environments than their counterparts that you left out. It's very rare that you find American mls field players past 23 that can step into a top league and contribute right away. Cameron, Holden, Dempsey, Clark come to mind and that's 4 in 20 yrs. The evidence would say that it would be irrational and disrespectful to the game to assume guys like Duncan and Miles are better than Miazga and EPB who are more proven in more competitive environments or even someone like CRich who is younger and rated much higher by Bundesliga & EPL scouts.

The fact that Herc has connections to the USSF, mls and the past/ current players is even more of a reason to not find his opinion credible. You never hear him critique a roster selection or a player performance from an mls player bc those guys are his friends and employers and he rather the program look bad than jeopardize his money or relationships. You should try listening to Brian Kleiban, Geoff Cameron, Jermaine Jones, and Eddie Johnson who understand world standards of the game and aren't in bed with USSF, Sum or mls.

I'll say this again, it's completely irrational and disrespectful to the game and the program to throw away known quantities that are rated higher in every aspect of the game by international standards bc you want to give mls players a chance. I'm trying to be as respectful as I can but this isn't rec league pay to pay soccer, you can't just buy your way in, you have to earn it. If you want Miles and Duncan to have a chance to compete for a spot, they must prove they can play on the same level as their counterparts first. It's literally the first rule of creating competition in a national pool.

If we're comparing what Kobe and CRich have proven compared to Miles and Duncan, you've got to consider that you're comparing 2 U20 players that are on a trajectory for first team top level football with 2 23 year olds that are career league one players. We need to evaluate this game more with our heads as a nation and less with our hearts.
goalsense
stoked-3
Post #79
Monday May 11, 2020 6:59pm

Joined Mar 2020
Total Posts: 220
It is more complicated than what league and what age you are. MLS controls contracts so that is an obstacle for some guys leaving.

Also euro leagues in the past have not rated our youth programs so kids by in large did not have the chance to go overseas young so they had to go to college or mls, then a league would see them and would have to negt with MLS.

The issue I have is:
1. the players who want to leave but are not allowed.

2 players who could leave whom choose to stay.

3. players from mls who seem to get called up faster than euro guys

For me we just need to have better scouting and we need to be open to different players-to often it is just choose who you have called up before bc they have the most "experience".

We need to be open to young guys who are at big clubs not getting playing time-is that ideal no, but we need to see if these young kids can play.

It just seems so hard for some guys to get called in. Paxon and Robinson are good mls examples. overseas you could add a slew of guys to the list.

Scout92
Lone Star State
Post #80
Monday May 11, 2020 7:13pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,529
Original post from blaise213

It's a message board of 15 people, who gives a shit. I've been putting out my FIFA style lines ups since 2013 on ESPN. Reyna is starter for me, Holmes is a starter for me. Holmes is good defensively and would be fine in the #8 position IMO. McKennie is a decent player surrounded by better players on his team. He's doesn't perform the same way he does for his club when playing for the National team.


2013 ESPN line ups, same here lol

Samtom23
Post #81
Tuesday May 12, 2020 2:10am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 574
Yeah, it is all conjecture and personal opinion. No one is really wrong. Unless you select, Roldan and Arriola, then you are just effing wrong.

Just kidding.

Bjelks, no disrespect to Chandler and Yedlin it is just they are known qualities., could be that they are on the roster in 2022.

And I agree with stokes some players never even given the opportunity because whatever reason GB decides.

bjelks
Post #82
Tuesday May 12, 2020 5:06am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,046
Why don't we leave out Pulisic, Adams and Mckennie because they are known quantities?

Why don't we just give their spots to random mls players?

Can I just say that Morris and Zardes are better than Ronaldo and Messi without being called a clown bc it's my personal opinion?

How is Gregg picking random mls scrubs over top league players different from anybody on a thread doing the same?
goalsense
Samtom23
Post #83
Tuesday May 12, 2020 6:41pm

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 574
Hmm...Well, since you want me to explain it...

Pulisic, Adams and Mckennie are almost sure fire locks for 2022. However, Yedlin and Chandler are not. Most likely Yedlin will be there but it isn't guaranteed. Chandler is a serviceable professional but is getting up there in years. And there are other options that are coming along in Europe and MLS.

So you look at LB, Dest is my preferred LB for this year 2020. Antonee Robinson has a heart issue.

Going forward that might change if Robinson fully recovers or Chris Gloster develops. But as he is not first team as of yet, not considering him. Maybe next year.-

Now RB, most people have Yedlin as the starter but that is starting to change. if we are honest with ourselves he is a middling caliber player in the Premier League and possibly in the Bundesliga soon.

After that, the next choice is Cannon. I know you think he contributes nothing going forward, I also know your opinion will change suddenly and quite miraculously once Cannon signs with a Bundesliga club as being reported recently.

If you're willing to anoint Kobe without so much as him setting foot on that continent, much less joining the team for so much as TRAINING or FiRST TEAM ACTION. Then, that shows how strong your personal bias is. I would also suggest, that is good example of irrational and clownish judgement and not an intellectual argument but an emotional one. Along the same lines as Jurgen leaving Landon of the World Cup roster for his own personal reasons and taking the unproven Green.

But maybe you are onto something. We actually don't need to something as basic as PLAYING THE GAME, we just need to have EURO based teams sign our players.

Juventus is scouting Sargent and they are in the top ten teams in the world, so with your example of Kobe. Then we are set at striker and LB/CB depending on where Kobe plays.

So do they even really need to move? Moving is stressful studies show and experience tells me that too. So why give them young men and unnecessary burden? We can just give it to them as you so subtly suggest because they are in Europe or as in KOBE's case not in Europe but signed by a European team, which is acceptable enough by your standards. Irrational, eh?

As far as, Morris and Zardes been better than Ronaldo and Messi. I am not sure, what you are even trying to say? Are you suggesting, Ronaldo and Messi are somehow US eligible? If so, that's great news. Marketing is going to love that shit.

Or are you suggesting, that Yedlin and Chandler are on the same level as Messi and Ronaldo? Obviously at different positions.

Basically, I have no idea about the relevance of that comment. Do you have any idea about the relevance of that comment? Does anyone have any idea about the relevance of that comment?

But for the record, I do believe Ronaldo and Messi are marginally better than Xardes and Morris. Slightly, a wee bit, tiny. Who am I kidding....Ronaldo and Messi are way better.

bjelks
Post #84
Tuesday May 12, 2020 7:06pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,046
I'm asking what makes Pulisic, Mckennie and Adams for sure locks and Chandler and Yedlin on par with mls players? I don't think you're using a consistent rationale to evaluate players and that's why I mentioned Messi and Ronaldo in sarcasm. When you elevate guys like Miles and Duncan over guys that play at clearly higher levels like Bundesliga, EPL, Championship or equal like EPB in Austria that's what I would consider emotional and bias evaluations.

Based on the assessment of Brian Kleiban, who knows a lot more about developing international top level players, than you or I, I'm willing to bet by 2021 Kobe will be a first team player in the Bundesliga.

Antonee if healthy would be at AC Milan so logically he would be the first team LB.
Ajax, Bayern Munich and Tottenham call Dest a RB, so that's what I will call him.

Josh Sargent is our only striker starting and scoring in a top league so Juventus or not, I think his place in the team is a no brainer until someone tops or matches his level.

My opinion of Cannon could change if he plays regularly in the Bundesliga and doesn't embarrass himself, but his technique and quality on the ball is what it is at this point and he'll never have the ability Dest has on the ball.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #85
Tuesday May 12, 2020 8:27pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,628
@Samtom23

Good analysis. Spot on with calling out bjelks.

@bjelks

Your opinions and arguments consistently flail in the wind... And yes, they are most certainly driven by bias. Thats extremely clear and noticed by pretty much everyone on the site... and you trying to ague otherwise is laughable.

bjelks
Post #86
Tuesday May 12, 2020 9:28pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,046
Original post from Lilshmike

@Samtom23

Good analysis. Spot on with calling out bjelks.

@bjelks

Your opinions and arguments consistently flail in the wind... And yes, they are most certainly driven by bias. Thats extremely clear and noticed by pretty much everyone on the site... and you trying to ague otherwise is laughable.


My opinions are consistently aligned with creating competition and calling the best players.
There was no analysis all he did was pick mls names out of a hat lol.
@lilshmike you're a clown and a fanboy consistently. You back whatever the federation does and blindly support anyone that disagrees with me.
Ppl like you are the reason we didn't qualify in 2018, praising the status quo and continuing the corruption and bigotry.
Come up with a new story, this is old
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #87
Tuesday May 12, 2020 10:30pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,628
Original post from bjelks

My opinions are consistently aligned with creating competition and calling the best players.
There was no analysis all he did was pick mls names out of a hat lol.
@lilshmike you're a clown and a fanboy consistently. You back whatever the federation does and blindly support anyone that disagrees with me.
Ppl like you are the reason we didn't qualify in 2018, praising the status quo and continuing the corruption and bigotry.
Come up with a new story, this is old
Hahaha just to set the record straight...

You have consistently bashed, even your last post, MLS, MLS coaches, pretty much anything associated with USSF/MLS in any way as being non-credible.

Yet... when attempting to back up your rationale about a kid you're blindly advocating for and have never seen, Kobe, you are referencing the opinion of... who? Brian Kleiban? A guy who is... an MLS youth coach?

That, right there, is a prime example of your double standards and the nonsense you spew. Its a very "if someone references an MLS person it doesn't mean anything, but when I do it does" type of approach.

Hahahaha we can't make this stuff up, people! Thanks for providing my daily laugh.

stoked-3
Post #88
Wednesday May 13, 2020 4:28am

Joined Mar 2020
Total Posts: 220
Original post from Lilshmike

@Samtom23

Good analysis. Spot on with calling out bjelks.

@bjelks

Your opinions and arguments consistently flail in the wind... And yes, they are most certainly driven by bias. Thats extremely clear and noticed by pretty much everyone on the site... and you trying to ague otherwise is laughable.


Isn't everyone driven by bias ? Instead of coming on the boards to tell us why your way is the best way-why not simply respond with your view point like @samtom23 did-it promotes fun debate-but you seem to want to come on and tell anyone whom does not adhere to your bias that we are clowns.

You may not like it but the world doesn't think to highly of mls-does that mean that all player in mls suck, does it mean someone like Long, or Paxton, or Robinson shouldn't be on the Nats nope but it shouldn't cause ridicule that he doesn't rate MLS. Now argue with him over player selection, evaluation, potential, game experience, age, stats etc totally fair game--but it gets old you coming on to tell others their bias is not warrented if it doesnt align with yours.

bjelks
Post #89
Wednesday May 13, 2020 5:51am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 2,046
Original post from Lilshmike

Hahaha just to set the record straight...

You have consistently bashed, even your last post, MLS, MLS coaches, pretty much anything associated with USSF/MLS in any way as being non-credible.

Yet... when attempting to back up your rationale about a kid you're blindly advocating for and have never seen, Kobe, you are referencing the opinion of... who? Brian Kleiban? A guy who is... an MLS youth coach?

That, right there, is a prime example of your double standards and the nonsense you spew. Its a very "if someone references an MLS person it doesn't mean anything, but when I do it does" type of approach.

Hahahaha we can't make this stuff up, people! Thanks for providing my daily laugh.


Brian Kleiban has developed and scouted the best U20 players players in the country.

He was fired from the youth academy of the galaxy mls development academy for telling his players to go to Europe instead of signing with mls, because he thought it would ruin their careers.
It's the professional opinion of this former mls youth coach that playing in mls is a waste of time if you aspire to be a top level player.

I don't have to bash mls, their top youth coach doesn't think it's good enough for his top players to play in. Not only are you completely wrong again, but you've continued to ruin your credibility by lying more in attempt of a cheap Baseless laugh.

Kleiban grew up in an Argentine Football family. Coaching youth academy ball was just a stepping stone job. Now I've never bashed or said anything about mls that isn't true. By any measure, it's regarded by world Experts as somewhere between the 18th-20th best league in the world.
To rate players from the 20th best league in the world over players in top leagues and even 2nd tier leagues Is not just disrespectful to the game and our players, but it's crippling to the team.
goalsense
Samtom23
Post #90
Wednesday May 13, 2020 8:02am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 574
So let't look at your boy, Kleiban and fined out a possible reason, why he was fired...

https://www.lagconfidential.com/2019/4/12/183...

Oh, so looking at your boy, KLEIBAN. It turns out Uly and Mendez were represented by all people, his brother. I can imagine that conversation..."Alex, Uly, you should go overseas otherwise your career will be ruined. I am just looking out for you, boys. And to help, here is my brother's, Gary card. He is an agent and will help you boys."

And once more, if this article is accurate then know who should be pissed at Kleiban the most? Mendez and Uly because they are currently making less money at their teams, then maybe, if someone other than Gary Kleiban had represented him.

I am guessing you already know about Gary though.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/04/10/ste...

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