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2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #361
Sunday July 19, 2020 2:17am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,566
Really? You are going to use an obscure ranking site? It literally has the Australian A league well above MLS. And that's pretty funny. And there is no clear metrics. That's hilarious.

Bleacher report which has clear defined metrics has MLS in the top 10 at number 10.

Sports show which takes their statistics from footballdatabase.com has MLS as a top 10 league coming in at 10.

Soccer gear HQ which has clear defined rankings has MLS as a top 15 league coming in at 15.

None of these sites has The Austrian league anywhere close to MLS.

Sportytell has MLS at 10

Come on man I can go on and on.

bjelks
Post #362
Sunday July 19, 2020 4:04am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,664
Original post from 2tone

Really? You are going to use an obscure ranking site? It literally has the Australian A league well above MLS. And that's pretty funny. And there is no clear metrics. That's hilarious.

Bleacher report which has clear defined metrics has MLS in the top 10 at number 10.

Sports show which takes their statistics from footballdatabase.com has MLS as a top 10 league coming in at 10.

Soccer gear HQ which has clear defined rankings has MLS as a top 15 league coming in at 15.

None of these sites has The Austrian league anywhere close to MLS.

Sportytell has MLS at 10

Come on man I can go on and on.


Lol globalfootballrankings.com has clear defined metrics, you just don't like them because they don't overhype your domestic league.
Value of players, teams and results against those teams are clear defined metrics; you just don't like them because they don't fit your narrative.

Come on man I can go on and on.
goalsense
Samtom23
Post #363
Sunday July 19, 2020 5:41am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 343
Original post from bjelks

Lol globalfootballrankings.com has clear defined metrics, you just don't like them because they don't overhype your domestic league.
Value of players, teams and results against those teams are clear defined metrics; you just don't like them because they don't fit your narrative.

Come on man I can go on and on.


When globalfootballrankings.com my default counter is champkind.com and Champion 'Champ' Kind rates MLS about Serie B, Bundesliga II, the B Team of Barca.

Seriously, you have your narrative which isn't always based in even head up match-ups. Boyd and Morris comparison is first look. And of course, you'll say players around but Boyd had those very same players and even had Dest, who came off.

Looking at your CB breakdown it is an ok breakdown but you discounted Robinson and played up Richards.

Bayern is loaning him out for a reason so he can gain experience. And at the CB position you need a player with some experience anchor the back line. You can get away from this with LB and RB's somewhat. And Bayern can actually see him in person and they might very well compete next year head to head. So it is a what and see and maybe he earns it. I am a wait and see how he performs,

EPV the loan situation is not an ideal situation. Man City has a massive loan army and they fact they sent him to Austria isn't showing much confidence in him every seen first team minutes with the parent club and also, how the parent club views his importance. It would've showed more confidence if they sent him to even the Championship.

Brooks is the only lock at this point. And the rest it is up for grabs.

bjelks
Post #364
Sunday July 19, 2020 3:05pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,664
Original post from Samtom23

When globalfootballrankings.com my default counter is champkind.com and Champion 'Champ' Kind rates MLS about Serie B, Bundesliga II, the B Team of Barca.

Seriously, you have your narrative which isn't always based in even head up match-ups. Boyd and Morris comparison is first look. And of course, you'll say players around but Boyd had those very same players and even had Dest, who came off.

Looking at your CB breakdown it is an ok breakdown but you discounted Robinson and played up Richards.

Bayern is loaning him out for a reason so he can gain experience. And at the CB position you need a player with some experience anchor the back line. You can get away from this with LB and RB's somewhat. And Bayern can actually see him in person and they might very well compete next year head to head. So it is a what and see and maybe he earns it. I am a wait and see how he performs,

EPV the loan situation is not an ideal situation. Man City has a massive loan army and they fact they sent him to Austria isn't showing much confidence in him every seen first team minutes with the parent club and also, how the parent club views his importance. It would've showed more confidence if they sent him to even the Championship.

Brooks is the only lock at this point. And the rest it is up for grabs.


With the wait and see approach for CRich, a month of consistent Bundesliga play in the fall should give him the "experience" to fit your criteria.

We've discussed Morris and Boyd before ad nauseam and I didn't see anything Morris could do or did do that Boyd couldn't do better. I also don't believe he played better against Mexico. I think they were both ineffective to be clear. I also think Morris had horrible games against Canada and Mexico in the GC that were completely dismissed, which is part of the Doyle/ Lalas narrative.

EPB can't get a Championship loan because he doesn't qualify for a work permit bc he hasn't played enough national team games. But Long did and was seen as a cheap target for bottom tier EPL teams bc of it. This is how favoritism, privilege and politics benefit players that aren't deserving. Once NYRB asked for more than 4mil, you see how interest disappeared in Long.
goalsense
2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #365
Sunday July 19, 2020 3:11pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,566
Original post from bjelks

Lol globalfootballrankings.com has clear defined metrics, you just don't like them because they don't overhype your domestic league.
Value of players, teams and results against those teams are clear defined metrics; you just don't like them because they don't fit your narrative.

Come on man I can go on and on.


Actually no it doesn't.

And quite frankly you used one site to fit your agenda not me. I used multiple sites to back up my point.

Dave
Post #366
Sunday July 19, 2020 4:45pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,053
Original post from bjelks
I think CCV is at a good enough level for consideration, I'd like to see him at a better EFL club but he's doing work right now.
EPB also at a good enough level right now, but he needs a move for good measure I would say Robinson needs a move the most, but could get in due to domestic league favoritism
CRich will be starting in the Bundesliga next yr, he's in a good situation


bjelks - I wasn't trying to rank anyone other than Brooks. I was just pointing out that a case can be made for those I listed. If I were the manager my defensive selections would be the following:
CB: Brooks, Miazga, CCV, EPB
LB: A. Robinson, Alvarado
RB: Dest, Cannon/Yedlin
This would provide the most versatility and coverage in the event of injury or card accumulation. Would also allow a shift to a 3 man back-line if required.
I picked Alvarado as the back-up LB for a couple reasons:
1) I can't stand the thought of "Traffic Cone" Ream being selected.
2) The clear lack of depth I'd trust at the LB position. I don't know if any of the other LB options (other than Dest) would be ready for international play. Gloster, Vines, etc... just aren't ready.
3) He's a Swiss-army knife. He has played LB, RB, CB & CDM in his professional career. Is a good passer, good size, good speed, and isn't going to be in his Mid-30's come WC.
-
Richards is the dark horse selection. If he is loaned out next season and performs well in a top 5 league...than he can be reevaluated. Until that happens I can't see him overtaking anyone else I listed. Playing for the reserves for Bayern for a year does not beat 1+ more seasons in the championship where CCV & Miazga have been consistent.
-
FYI...when I was referencing Long's "experience" I was referencing the pure # of professional games played. Not his greater number of USMNT games. I don't really care how many USMNT games a player has played.
That said...with the way this cycle has played out (Long coaching search, COVID, etc...) I'm more willing to take flyers on young players this time around than I normally would. I want players like Reyna, Weah, Uli, Sargent, Dest, etc....to succeed in beating out their Older counter parts. They have the skills to qualify this cycle and even perform well at the WC. But the real advantage will be the experience they'll gain in advance of the next cycle when all this talent will be at their Prime. The 2026 team could be a team even the world powers may think twice of wanting to play.

bjelks
Post #367
Sunday July 19, 2020 10:51pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,664
Original post from 2tone

Actually no it doesn't.

And quite frankly you used one site to fit your agenda not me. I used multiple sites to back up my point.


Lol you didn't use one site that measured quality of play so I'm sorry I can't take them seriously.

Your agenda is any propaganda that overhypes mls lol.
Your sites had criteria like excitement, attendance, nicest uniforms, goals scored, best fans, competitiveness, none of these things have anything to do with overall quality of play lol.

Good try dude, but the biggest indicator of overall quality of play is Avg value of players, teams, and competitiveness of games after we've established that the value of players and teams are high.
What's the point of competitiveness and goals scored if the level of play is low lol?
Cmon dude, you know better.

The reason mls has such low value players and teams is two fold: 1) they don't win intercontinental tourneys or compete in a respected intercontinental tourney 2) they don't have a reputation for selling players to big teams that turn profits on those players or win big trophies

Yes there are exceptions to every rule, but 1 or 2 players sold every other year that make a big impact doesn't mean the overall level is better than leagues that do 4-5x that.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #368
Sunday July 19, 2020 10:57pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,664
Original post from Dave

bjelks - I wasn't trying to rank anyone other than Brooks. I was just pointing out that a case can be made for those I listed. If I were the manager my defensive selections would be the following:
CB: Brooks, Miazga, CCV, EPB
LB: A. Robinson, Alvarado
RB: Dest, Cannon/Yedlin
This would provide the most versatility and coverage in the event of injury or card accumulation. Would also allow a shift to a 3 man back-line if required.
I picked Alvarado as the back-up LB for a couple reasons:
1) I can't stand the thought of "Traffic Cone" Ream being selected.
2) The clear lack of depth I'd trust at the LB position. I don't know if any of the other LB options (other than Dest) would be ready for international play. Gloster, Vines, etc... just aren't ready.
3) He's a Swiss-army knife. He has played LB, RB, CB & CDM in his professional career. Is a good passer, good size, good speed, and isn't going to be in his Mid-30's come WC.
-
Richards is the dark horse selection. If he is loaned out next season and performs well in a top 5 league...than he can be reevaluated. Until that happens I can't see him overtaking anyone else I listed. Playing for the reserves for Bayern for a year does not beat 1+ more seasons in the championship where CCV & Miazga have been consistent.
-
FYI...when I was referencing Long's "experience" I was referencing the pure # of professional games played. Not his greater number of USMNT games. I don't really care how many USMNT games a player has played.
That said...with the way this cycle has played out (Long coaching search, COVID, etc...) I'm more willing to take flyers on young players this time around than I normally would. I want players like Reyna, Weah, Uli, Sargent, Dest, etc....to succeed in beating out their Older counter parts. They have the skills to qualify this cycle and even perform well at the WC. But the real advantage will be the experience they'll gain in advance of the next cycle when all this talent will be at their Prime. The 2026 team could be a team even the world powers may think twice of wanting to play.


We'll have to see how Gloster progresses I'm the fall. He's rumored to be in the PSV 1st team, so things could get interesting.
I strongly believe CRich will be Bundesliga starter next fall, so I wouldn't worry about his fit.
I'd also keep an eye on Shaq Moore for RB
goalsense
bjelks
Post #369
Sunday July 19, 2020 11:04pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,664
Also Tyler Boyd had a good game against Fenbarche and Capped it off with an assist

3 Pts back of a CL spot

https://twitter.com/donttreadsoccer/status/12...
goalsense
hamsamwich
Post #370
Monday July 20, 2020 12:17am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,303
I'll add to the CB debate by saying that Brooks is injured often and in fact has sometimes been a liability in 1v1 defending. He's a "lock" because his competition is Tim Ream (who is playing very good soccer and may be headed back again to the Premier League). Saying that I think Berhalter should try someone besides those two in the next game whenever that is so we are prepared to for the eventual fall off of Ream (some say can't fall off if you weren't on, but), and the future injury of Brooks. The spots are open for anyone to grab them if they can impress Berhalter.

Richards played well this past year and is only going to get better. Yes he has less experience than CCV or Miazga but is also a much more natural athlete than the hulking CCV or slow on his feet Miazga. I would call him in because he really is that blue chip prospect in defense and I think he should get acclimated and then take his lumps early. I believe in Richards. I think him and EPB together would be a defensive upgrade and not too shabby taking the ball out either.

Samtom23
Post #371
Tuesday July 21, 2020 2:21pm

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 343
Original post from hamsamwich

I'll add to the CB debate by saying that Brooks is injured often and in fact has sometimes been a liability in 1v1 defending. He's a "lock" because his competition is Tim Ream (who is playing very good soccer and may be headed back again to the Premier League). Saying that I think Berhalter should try someone besides those two in the next game whenever that is so we are prepared to for the eventual fall off of Ream (some say can't fall off if you weren't on, but), and the future injury of Brooks. The spots are open for anyone to grab them if they can impress Berhalter.

Richards played well this past year and is only going to get better. Yes he has less experience than CCV or Miazga but is also a much more natural athlete than the hulking CCV or slow on his feet Miazga. I would call him in because he really is that blue chip prospect in defense and I think he should get acclimated and then take his lumps early. I believe in Richards. I think him and EPB together would be a defensive upgrade and not too shabby taking the ball out either.


Looks like Brooks is being shopped around but probably not going anywhere in the near future.

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #372
Wednesday July 22, 2020 12:06am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,288
Brooks is our no 1 CB idc what happened in the past. If he has a good partner next to him( I believe it should be Miazga but he hasn't gotten on the field since the slap) he will do wonders for us. Especially since he'll try to redeem himself and prove his pedigree.

Also I know he has a bright future ahead of him but Richards has to sort out his next move. Either fight at Bayern (which seems like they don't have him in their plans but that could change) or get to another club. He's an unquestioned U23 starter for us but he needs games.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #373
Wednesday July 22, 2020 2:47am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,566
Very interesting the tables are turning a bit. It looks like the USMNT is finally producing quality field players, but really struggling with developing quality GK's.

Steffen is really the only quality young keeper. Other than that GK is not looking inspiring at the moment.

Samtom23
Post #374
Wednesday July 22, 2020 4:16am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 343
Original post from EKneezy

Brooks is our no 1 CB idc what happened in the past. If he has a good partner next to him( I believe it should be Miazga but he hasn't gotten on the field since the slap) he will do wonders for us. Especially since he'll try to redeem himself and prove his pedigree.

Also I know he has a bright future ahead of him but Richards has to sort out his next move. Either fight at Bayern (which seems like they don't have him in their plans but that could change) or get to another club. He's an unquestioned U23 starter for us but he needs games.


Agreed Brooks is number 1 CB and I don't think he is going anywhere because the length of his contract. It seems Bayern still have Richards in long term plans just want to loan him one year to another Bundesliga side.

Lilshmike
Post #375
Wednesday July 22, 2020 2:26pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,416
Original post from 2tone

Very interesting the tables are turning a bit. It looks like the USMNT is finally producing quality field players, but really struggling with developing quality GK's.

Steffen is really the only quality young keeper. Other than that GK is not looking inspiring at the moment.
Horvath is arguably as good (if not slightly better) than Steffen... he just got the shaft this last year at Brugge. They have apparently told him he is free to leave though, so I would expect him to get to a new team here soon(ish).

Not going into detail on all the aspects of Steffen vs Horvath, but with Steffen reportedly going to City to sit the bench this next season... that isn't good. At his age, he needs to be playing all the time. GK isn't like field player positions, its a totally different ball game... and with Steffen sitting the bench at City, there is no clear path for him to jump Ederson (and he WILL NOT take that spot unless Ederson gets hurt). If Horvath can lock down a starting spot on another Belgian team or even hop to Bundesliga and start there, I see it being extremely difficult to find a justification for not playing Horvath #1.

That being said, if WCQ started tomorrow, Guzan is likely starting in net for us.

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