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bjelks
Post #271
Friday July 10, 2020 12:12pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,667
Original post from Samtom23

Remember he created the most chances in the second half when he came on for Boyd. He may not start in the end but has a spot in my opinion.


To me creating chances in garbage time means less than having the ability to Actually create, finish and score when the game is on the line.

I would disagree with he created chances as well, I would argue he was involved with chances others created.

And scoring against minnows again, has nothing to do with earning your spot in the future. We have younger players in better leagues, better clubs, with better profiles by international standards that have giant mentalities that he doesn't have.

Earning it for him would be stepping across the pond and proving he can make it at the same levels as his counterparts.

What you're arguing is that because Nick Lima was serviceable against Costa Rica in a friendly, that makes him more deserving than Sergio Dest who's had a man of the match performances against PSV and has played well in CL and been voted Ajax young talent of the year and is targeted for 25mil by the best clubs in the world.

No no no, that's not how football works
goalsense
2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #272
Friday July 10, 2020 1:19pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,567
BJelks continues to show his MLS bias. Dude just admit that you don't want any MLS based players on the USMNT. It's cool you have your opinion eventhough there are stats that show you are wrong quite a bit.

cudevil
Post #273
Friday July 10, 2020 1:54pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,049
Original post from bjelks

I didn't say Morris was slow, I don't think he's as fast as MLS supporters make him out to be.
If he is, he doesn't know how to use it to separate in games against decent competition.

What I mean is, I don't see him separating from ppl the way Mbappe and Davies do.


We don't have anyone in the pool that has speed like that. Pretty much no one does, so that isn't a fair comparison.

hamsamwich
Post #274
Friday July 10, 2020 2:25pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,309
@bjelks- You don't like that he makes good runs and puts himself in a position to score?? Then it can't be helped. As I said months ago, Mario Mandzukic is an international quality player who made a living as a goal scoring winger who didn't take people one 1v1 (which Morris has gotten better at, especially to put in crosses with his left foot). So there are comparisons of successful players playing exactly this way. Weah is no more of a winger than Morris is.

bjelks
Post #275
Friday July 10, 2020 2:56pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,667
Original post from 2tone

BJelks continues to show his MLS bias. Dude just admit that you don't want any MLS based players on the USMNT. It's cool you have your opinion eventhough there are stats that show you are wrong quite a bit.


No no mls player has ever played in a WC Semi in over 100 yrs not once.

I don't understand why anyone thinks that we can.

It's the most arrogant and ridiculous thought in the history of sports that you can beat top level competition with 3rd tier talent.

Top players come to mls for Easy money before they retire and they mock the league while they play in it. It's a joke.

This isn't an mls bias, it's an acknowledgement of where the league is on a global scale.

It's sad that you feel that way.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #276
Friday July 10, 2020 2:59pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,667
Original post from cudevil

We don't have anyone in the pool that has speed like that. Pretty much no one does, so that isn't a fair comparison.


Tyler Adams has top end world class speed
I've seen him track down top players from 20 yds

So does Yedlin
So does Gooch who was recognized as a top 10 fastest player in the EPL
Antonee is very fast
So is Sergino
So is CP

I'm not sure how fast Konrad and Uly are
Weah is a hell of an athlete
goalsense
hamsamwich
Post #277
Friday July 10, 2020 3:31pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,309
There's speed with the ball, without the ball making runs, recovery speed... what are we talking about.
Nobody says we should have an MLS based squad or that if we did it would win the World Cup. Nobody thinks that. People do think the best current players should play for the national team.

I've seen both Konrad and Uly play. Sure the are fast. But while Llanez has his head up, Konrad plays with his head down. Big difference...

What of Thomas Muller??

cudevil
Post #278
Friday July 10, 2020 3:36pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,049
Original post from bjelks

Tyler Adams has top end world class speed
I've seen him track down top players from 20 yds

So does Yedlin
So does Gooch who was recognized as a top 10 fastest player in the EPL
Antonee is very fast
So is Sergino
So is CP

I'm not sure how fast Konrad and Uly are
Weah is a hell of an athlete


We have no one with the short space quickness and top end speed of Mbappe. Not even close. The guys you mentioned are fast, but Mbappe is in a class of his own.

Doubt anyone has the top end speed of Davies.

bjelks
Post #279
Friday July 10, 2020 5:01pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,667
Original post from hamsamwich

There's speed with the ball, without the ball making runs, recovery speed... what are we talking about.
Nobody says we should have an MLS based squad or that if we did it would win the World Cup. Nobody thinks that. People do think the best current players should play for the national team.

I've seen both Konrad and Uly play. Sure the are fast. But while Llanez has his head up, Konrad plays with his head down. Big difference...

What of Thomas Muller??


I've seen Konrad as well and I've seen him combine, pick passes and make smart runs off the ball.
I would disagree that he plays with his head down, maybe we've seen different games and he needs to show more consistency.

But I think there is a clear difference between the technical quality of Konrad and Morris and ultimately that profile is how you define who are better players at a top level.

I think Thomas Muller has an IQ and technical ability to play quickly and accurately in tight spaces under high pressure. I think comparing a player of Muller's quality and resume to Morris is a gross overhyping of Morris. I'm sorry.
goalsense
hamsamwich
Post #280
Friday July 10, 2020 5:23pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,309
You said what good is a guy if they can't take guys one on one and only exploit spaces other people create. I give you the top guy at that. Nobody says Morris is Muller, or Mandzukic... but the rest of the USA frankly aren't Ballack or Modric, Hummels or even Lovren. The point is still the same. The best players should play. All players should be given looks in camp. Also all MLS players are not equal just like nobody should think Morales is as good as Tyler Adams- just because they're in the same league does not make them equal. Also every conversation isn't about Jordan Morris or any one guy. It's taken a long time to even get where the state of the country currently is at soccer- and screaming about one specific guy to get out of the team (Morris)- when the problems are so much bigger than him. One player doesn't make the team. Even for the Donovan lovers out there (I'm not one) will admit that without guys like Reyna, McBride, Bocanegra, Bradley etc there wouldn't have been a platform for Donovan to perform. It's gotten a lot better to where the young guys (Cannon, Pomykal, Aaronson, McKenzie, etc, etc) are at a much higher level than they've ever been. And that's the progress that we need as a country. Not every guy is going to transfer at 16 or have a European passport but the quality of player being developed currently here in America isn't too bad. They're functional to better than that if you look at a move for a guy like Joe Scally. To summarize, one guy isn't going to make the program great, nor will they ruin it. But save everybody the same quote you put in every thread "Morris sucks, MLS sucks". We know you think that. But it doesn't change the fact that not everyone agrees. And also that opinions about who should be playing are just that. Only Greggs opinion matters. And from the leagues and teams he played on, Greggs playing style in general, the way his teams played at the Crew, what he's tried so far for the national team- all that points to a guy who wants to possess and attack and play the "Dutch" style. That's what his goal is. Along with Earnie "I'm half Dutch and a product of their system" Stewart.

bjelks
Post #281
Friday July 10, 2020 10:33pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,667
Original post from hamsamwich

You said what good is a guy if they can't take guys one on one and only exploit spaces other people create. I give you the top guy at that. Nobody says Morris is Muller, or Mandzukic... but the rest of the USA frankly aren't Ballack or Modric, Hummels or even Lovren. The point is still the same. The best players should play. All players should be given looks in camp. Also all MLS players are not equal just like nobody should think Morales is as good as Tyler Adams- just because they're in the same league does not make them equal. Also every conversation isn't about Jordan Morris or any one guy. It's taken a long time to even get where the state of the country currently is at soccer- and screaming about one specific guy to get out of the team (Morris)- when the problems are so much bigger than him. One player doesn't make the team. Even for the Donovan lovers out there (I'm not one) will admit that without guys like Reyna, McBride, Bocanegra, Bradley etc there wouldn't have been a platform for Donovan to perform. It's gotten a lot better to where the young guys (Cannon, Pomykal, Aaronson, McKenzie, etc, etc) are at a much higher level than they've ever been. And that's the progress that we need as a country. Not every guy is going to transfer at 16 or have a European passport but the quality of player being developed currently here in America isn't too bad. They're functional to better than that if you look at a move for a guy like Joe Scally. To summarize, one guy isn't going to make the program great, nor will they ruin it. But save everybody the same quote you put in every thread "Morris sucks, MLS sucks". We know you think that. But it doesn't change the fact that not everyone agrees. And also that opinions about who should be playing are just that. Only Greggs opinion matters. And from the leagues and teams he played on, Greggs playing style in general, the way his teams played at the Crew, what he's tried so far for the national team- all that points to a guy who wants to possess and attack and play the "Dutch" style. That's what his goal is. Along with Earnie "I'm half Dutch and a product of their system" Stewart.


To clarify, I didn't ask what good is guy that cant take what good is a guy that cant take guys on and only explore space. I said I think we have multiple players that can take guys on and exploit the space as well. I also disagreed on Jordan being our best player at exploiting space.

When you bring up big name players, I think you're severely underrating the quality we have in the pool today. I'll take Adams, Mckennie, CP, Gio, Sarg, Weah against any front 6 in the world and you can feel however you want to feel about it. But this is most talent we've ever had in a front 6 and this is the toughest mentality and the most belief we've ever had in the front 6.

I don't understand what all players should be given looks means. There's only 23 to 27 spots, that's impossible. The players that are at the highest level should be in camp. We have to stop running the USMNT like a family and friends pay to play club.

I don't think anyone has made any assumption that all players of any league are equal. However, I think it's important that we understand, respect and give credit to players that earn their way in the most competitive environments. I don't understand what's confusing about this philosophy. Just bc Morales isnt as good as Adams doesn't mean he's not better than Yueill, Trapp and 40 yr old Bradley.

One player that doesn't earn his way to the team by pushing himself to earn mins in the most competitive environment does ruin team culture, bc it shows overt favoritism to someone that hasn't earned his spot there. Our biggest problem today and even 3 yrs ago is the same, too much favoritism to guys that haven't earned their spot bc the federation wants to promote the domestic league instead of win games. Long, Arriola, Yueill, Bradley, Jozy, Zardes are examples of this.
I don't understand the Donovan reference but I'll just say if he played in ‘14 instead of Wondo, we beat Belgium. Hot take!

I'll add that I don't understand how Boca and Bradley paved the way for Donovan when he turned pro before them.

When it comes to measuring level, until you prove yourself at a top level, myself and the rest of the world don't believe in guys like Cannon, Pom, BA, Mark. I just don't think we should say Konrad isnt in Barca's 1st team so he's not ready, but guys that are older that also aren't anywhere near Barca level are. Do you see the double standard here?

If the goal is to win a WC, the only progress that matters is how many guys can play at top clubs.
I'm happy for Scally, but he has to prove it in a much tougher environment.
Again, I believe all 23 spots matter and we need to set the same standard for everyone or it will destroy the locker room.

I don't think I've ever said "Morris sucks, MLS sucks", but he's not the profile of player that is useful if you're trying to win at the top level. I've presented numerous evidence to explain this.
And again according to team and values MLS is somewhere around the 20th league in the world.
Does this mean MLS sucks? No! Does this mean if someone is in a more competitive environment they deserve to be rated higher? Absolutely!

IMO I don't understand how every other country in the world respects league hierarchy but USA, it's kinda silly and that is my opinion. Regarding Gregg And his opinions, he was hired by his brother and we had much more qualified managers like Tata, Biesla, Almeyda that were interested.
If USA had a more serious football culture, Gregg would've been fired several times, or fans would've showed up at his door with Tiki Torches asking him to resign.

I don't know what Gregg is trying to do with the natl team. I don't think he even knows, what I do know is that I've disagreed with 60% of his rosters and if he wants to play a possession and attacking style he has no idea who our best attacking and possession players are by his past selections.
goalsense
Samtom23
Post #282
Saturday July 11, 2020 6:14am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 351
Original post from bjelks

To clarify, I didn't ask what good is guy that cant take what good is a guy that cant take guys on and only explore space. I said I think we have multiple players that can take guys on and exploit the space as well. I also disagreed on Jordan being our best player at exploiting space.

When you bring up big name players, I think you're severely underrating the quality we have in the pool today. I'll take Adams, Mckennie, CP, Gio, Sarg, Weah against any front 6 in the world and you can feel however you want to feel about it. But this is most talent we've ever had in a front 6 and this is the toughest mentality and the most belief we've ever had in the front 6.

I don't understand what all players should be given looks means. There's only 23 to 27 spots, that's impossible. The players that are at the highest level should be in camp. We have to stop running the USMNT like a family and friends pay to play club.

I don't think anyone has made any assumption that all players of any league are equal. However, I think it's important that we understand, respect and give credit to players that earn their way in the most competitive environments. I don't understand what's confusing about this philosophy. Just bc Morales isnt as good as Adams doesn't mean he's not better than Yueill, Trapp and 40 yr old Bradley.

One player that doesn't earn his way to the team by pushing himself to earn mins in the most competitive environment does ruin team culture, bc it shows overt favoritism to someone that hasn't earned his spot there. Our biggest problem today and even 3 yrs ago is the same, too much favoritism to guys that haven't earned their spot bc the federation wants to promote the domestic league instead of win games. Long, Arriola, Yueill, Bradley, Jozy, Zardes are examples of this.
I don't understand the Donovan reference but I'll just say if he played in ‘14 instead of Wondo, we beat Belgium. Hot take!

I'll add that I don't understand how Boca and Bradley paved the way for Donovan when he turned pro before them.

When it comes to measuring level, until you prove yourself at a top level, myself and the rest of the world don't believe in guys like Cannon, Pom, BA, Mark. I just don't think we should say Konrad isnt in Barca's 1st team so he's not ready, but guys that are older that also aren't anywhere near Barca level are. Do you see the double standard here?

If the goal is to win a WC, the only progress that matters is how many guys can play at top clubs.
I'm happy for Scally, but he has to prove it in a much tougher environment.
Again, I believe all 23 spots matter and we need to set the same standard for everyone or it will destroy the locker room.

I don't think I've ever said "Morris sucks, MLS sucks", but he's not the profile of player that is useful if you're trying to win at the top level. I've presented numerous evidence to explain this.
And again according to team and values MLS is somewhere around the 20th league in the world.
Does this mean MLS sucks? No! Does this mean if someone is in a more competitive environment they deserve to be rated higher? Absolutely!

IMO I don't understand how every other country in the world respects league hierarchy but USA, it's kinda silly and that is my opinion. Regarding Gregg And his opinions, he was hired by his brother and we had much more qualified managers like Tata, Biesla, Almeyda that were interested.
If USA had a more serious football culture, Gregg would've been fired several times, or fans would've showed up at his door with Tiki Torches asking him to resign.

I don't know what Gregg is trying to do with the natl team. I don't think he even knows, what I do know is that I've disagreed with 60% of his rosters and if he wants to play a possession and attacking style he has no idea who our best attacking and possession players are by his past selections.


It is only perception that Konrad has earned it. He is still B team at the end of the day and I don't think he was our best player at the U-20 level. It seems it is a matter of Konrad breaking into 1st team or demanding a loan. He could be like Ben Ledermen. I am not unopposed to giving (Konrad) him a look but I don't want to say he is a sure fire hit just yet,

Also, Konrad just signed an extension with Barca. He could've done like Sancho and gone to seek his future. But ultimately, it is up to Konrad. If he breaks into the first team then he will take the decision away from GB.

bjelks
Post #283
Saturday July 11, 2020 9:55am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,667
Original post from Samtom23

It is only perception that Konrad has earned it. He is still B team at the end of the day and I don't think he was our best player at the U-20 level. It seems it is a matter of Konrad breaking into 1st team or demanding a loan. He could be like Ben Ledermen. I am not unopposed to giving (Konrad) him a look but I don't want to say he is a sure fire hit just yet,

Also, Konrad just signed an extension with Barca. He could've done like Sancho and gone to seek his future. But ultimately, it is up to Konrad. If he breaks into the first team then he will take the decision away from GB.


He's B team for arguably the best team in the world lol. When you know what you're looking at, you know how to evaluate technique and that's how I judge players. I say things like league, team and player value to give y'all objective measures to benchmark by. If Barca B earn promotion, they'll be in the Spanish 2nd division, this would be a tremendous achievement for a "reserve team". The level of play in the 2nd Division is slightly lower than MLS overall by player value, but most of the teams overlap according to value (globalfootballrankings.com). You can fact check me at Transfermarkt if you don't believe me, but the MLS champion Sounders are worth less than Barca B. This means the world experts in evaluating football talent think that Barca B as a reserve team is better than the MLS champions. I'll add that I watched the Sounders last night and this is not a dig on the league, but the quality was Sunday park league.

He can't be like Ben Lederman. Ben Lederman never made Barca B and never had a chance to play in the Spanish 2nd division. I don't know what "sure fire" means, I can tell you that Konrad has better technique and IQ than Morris right now today at this very moment. Again I'm making a projection using trends and comparable benchmarks, but there's a high likelihood that Konrad as reserve player can play in the Segunda next yr and that's more than enough to compete with MLS level and I'll even throw in 2.Liga players for natl team spots. If Konrad breaks into the Barca first team, he immediately becomes arguably one of the best USMNT players of all time, it's a bit silly that someone has to become one of the best players of natl team history to get a shot in the first place.
goalsense
hamsamwich
Post #284
Saturday July 11, 2020 1:57pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,309
I used Scally for reference because he's going to a champions league club. Tyler Adams, Weston McKennie we raised in the MLS academy system. So was Gio who literally spent five minutes in BvBs academy, so it seems like nycfc is due some credit. I'll throw in Weah as the lone player developed outside the USA, at PSG- but even he spent years in America learning his trade. Throw in Pulisic and Sargent- "you'll take those front 6 against country"... and what??? They're gonna be better than everyone else? Come on. Especially after saying americans are deluded count yourself in. I maybe Adams biggest fan (Sargent too) but that's a ridiculous comment. You would not take them against any team in the world. That can't be true. I like all those guys and think they play with pride and they respect the badge but there's just no way. Not only that you need all XI in soccer and we really have no defenders.

bjelks
Post #285
Saturday July 11, 2020 7:32pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,667
No we have as dangerous as there are any attackers in the world and I actually think our defenders are very good. I'll say our defenders are our strength. Dest is a top level RB. Robinson is a top level left back. Brooks a top level CB. Miazga, EPB, CRich can all play at a top level. CCV is better than any MLS CB. Our defenders are as good as we need them to be to compete with anyone.

When I say compete, I mean we can go to toe if our best players are picked with anyone. We may win we may lose but we'll look the best we've ever have.

I don't care about them playing with pride and respect or whatever but they're damn good players and have the ability and mentality to give anyone in the world trouble. Pride and respect doesn't win trophies, talent does and we have enough to compete with the best.
goalsense
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