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TheTruth
Post #16
Friday March 13, 2020 11:50pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 954
It's amazing how much idiocy surrounds this topic, particularly in the media.

Obviously, women are far inferior soccer players. Let's see, whaddya think, could Alex Morgan make an NCAA Division III team? Maybe. So, no one should get in trouble for pointing this out. And shame on anyone for cowering to the Twitter mob when they state a simple, obvious fact.

Obviously #2, follow the money. The women should be paid somewhat proportionately to the revenue they generate (and so should the men).

And I'm with Sepp Blatter on this - their game would be way better if they played in bikinis. Like they really don't use their sexuality any way to drum up interest. I have a daughter now so my interest in USWNT is primarily due to her, but before I had her of course my interest was because there are a few good looking chicks on the team.

Why is everyone so terrified of the Truth? Hey, that would be a good username.

bjelks
Post #17
Saturday March 14, 2020 4:03am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,752
The US Women lost to the FC Dallas U15s a couple yrs back 5-2 in a scrimmage.
I would say the women's level is somewhere around 13-14 yr old academy boys.
goalsense
Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #18
Saturday March 14, 2020 2:36pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,049
Every player man or women should be paid a % of the revenue that they generate from games they play in. That would solve the problem of equal pay. There should be a minimum if the stadium is empty and that should also be the same for every player. I don't know why this is such a huge problem.

munns5986
Post #19
Saturday March 14, 2020 3:18pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 277
Grant it this is just my opinion but the isn't really about equal pay. There are aspects that should be absolutely equal. Playing on grass fields, hotel stays, etc. Lilsmike pointed out the issue in my opinion. The USWNT does not want to give up their pay structure. They want to keep the salaries but also want the bonuses and per game pay rates. In the end that is not equal. USSF completely blew this though with the way they have responded.

I have seen it mentioned but the USMNT players have to make their name known somewhere else and are rewarded with getting called in. USWNT make their name known with the USWNT and are getting jobs in leagues because of it. That's why the stunt with the inside out shirts hiding the USSF but showing the 4 stars was childish. Bite the hand that feeds you scenario.

I am a firm believer that everyone should be paid based on their value to revenue generated. It doesn't matter what sex, race, religion, or any other demographic. I just don't see the USSF being able to win this because of the court of public opinion. If they switch to the same pay structure as the men NWSL will probably die and there will be no development of the USWNT (they always call in the same 20 roughly). If that happens people will blame the USSF for not supporting. If they don't change the pay structure people are still going to yell discrimination.

Know Nothing
Post #20
Saturday March 14, 2020 8:35pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,827
Well the one thing that has not been mentioned is that the USSF may just give up the fight to save face in order to keep the womens team popular.

It would seem to me that SUM Marketing are not stupid. When the women are not playing, there is little interest in them. This public sympathy keeps them relevant during down time, keeps them being seen as media darlings while Rapinoes foul mouth rants go viral.

I dare say if USSF came out and offered the women exactly the same deal as the men they would reject it. As has been pointed out before, it is in their best interest to salaried workers instead of independent contractors like the men.

But they will have their day in an actual court. While the neanderthalish arguments served up to the populace will be widely reported, the true facts will be put forward before a judge and determined on legal merit, not the public's heartstrings.

TheTruth
Post #21
Sunday March 15, 2020 8:35pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 954
U15s? Ouch.

TheTruth
Post #22
Sunday March 15, 2020 8:38pm

Joined Dec 2013
Total Posts: 954
I still can't believe any player's union anywhere allows games on turf.

Samtom23
Post #23
Monday March 16, 2020 3:42am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 455
I think the women should look to sue Fifa instead of USSF. Because they determine the bonus pool which is significantly larger for the men. So the men's might become challenged for resources going forward.

And is there any country that pays men and women soccer players equally? Also, if women want equal pay, can the men then lobby for equal treatment, examples same amount of paternity leave, having male journalist in the female locker room? And I am concerned where will USSF, make up the difference in money? I assume they will pass it onto the consumer with ticket and merchandise.

Lilshmike
Post #24
Monday March 16, 2020 2:33pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,509
@Samtom23

Heres the thing though... a lot of what the women have been saying and arguing has either been based in misinformation, is intentionally deceptive/shrouds actual financial data, or is baseless in nature.

Lets take a look at FIFA in particular. The 2018 Men's WC generated $4.6B in revenue, with a $400M purse to be distributed to all teams, and $38M given to the winner.

The 2019 Women's WC generated $250M, with a $30M purse to be distributed to all teams, and $4M given to the winner.

Lets do the math.

As a % of revenue generated:
  • The men's purse is 8.7% of revenue generated, while the winner gets 0.8%
  • The women's purse is 12% of revenue generated, while the winner gets 1.6%
As a % of total purse:
  • The winning men's team earns about 9.5% of the total purse
  • The winning women's team earns about 13.3% of the total purse
They can try to sue FIFA, but it comes back to the facts and math of the matter. They lack a true legal case, so have resorted to making public stances and trying to win public opinion and support in order to twist the arm of US Soccer.

The women are actually paid more than their fair share when compared to the men. The only way to make things equal would be to have everything tied to a % of revenue generated... and if that were truly the case, either the men would get paid more or the women would get paid less. Thats the facts.

The women's team is suing USSF seeking $66M in damages... which is quite ridiculous. The harsh truth is that this has less to do with "equality" and more to do with a lot of the members of the women's team seeking a big retirement check.

I could keep going, but won't. As I have stated before, I have gone extremely in depth on this topic, and the facts are not in support of the women.

Lilshmike
Post #25
Wednesday March 18, 2020 4:23pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,509



Lilshmike
Post #26
Wednesday March 18, 2020 4:40pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,509
Bringing it up because I continue to see a lot of chatter on the web about this issue. This is a statement released a while ago from Carlos Cordeiro.

If reporters were reporters and actually did research into the facts at hand, there would be a lot less ignorance on this topic.

As I've stated, this is not about "equality" for the women's team. The last time a male player was paid more than a female player was in 2015, when men's players were receiving their bonuses for playing in the 2014 WC.

Most of it is a publicity stunt aimed at twisting the arm of US Soccer in order to get even more money in their next CBA... as well as a retirement check for the older more established players.

They are suing USSF for $66 million, the difference between what the men's winners and women's winners got from the last couple WCs. The WC prize money from FIFA has nothing to do with US Soccer, and if you do the math as I did in a previous post, the women actually receive more compensation than the men when it relates to a percentage of their revenue generated (which is the only true and "equal" metric that is fair to everyone).

I am all for equal pay... but this is not what this issue is truly about. Don't buy into the headlines and articles and tweets that you see on the internet. 95% of all of them are bogus, one sided, and the authors clearly have not done their research...

Know Nothing
Post #27
Sunday May 3, 2020 7:48pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,827
Well the women won the court of public opinion but had the majority of their argument dismissed by an actual judge in a liberal state (as predicted by Lilshmike).

Kudos to the women though for keeping the fight going through social media...albeit to only keep themselves relevant to the cause and to try and force a stronger position for the next CBA.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #28
Monday May 4, 2020 7:22pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,049
Original post from Know Nothing

Well the women won the court of public opinion but had the majority of their argument dismissed by an actual judge in a liberal state (as predicted by Lilshmike).

Kudos to the women though for keeping the fight going through social media...albeit to only keep themselves relevant to the cause and to try and force a stronger position for the next CBA.


According to the Judge they were offered the same CBA as the men and rejected it because it was performance based and they wanted a CBA with guaranteed money. They won the World Cup and would have gotten a lot more money if they had the same CBA as the men. The Judge dismiss the case as it has no merit since they were offed the same CBA as the men and rejected it. The can re-negotiate thier CBA at the proper time when their current contract runs out. I don't understand what their beef is if this is true?

Lilshmike
Post #29
Monday May 4, 2020 10:10pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,509
Original post from Kamphgruppe

According to the Judge they were offered the same CBA as the men and rejected it because it was performance based and they wanted a CBA with guaranteed money. They won the World Cup and would have gotten a lot more money if they had the same CBA as the men. The Judge dismiss the case as it has no merit since they were offed the same CBA as the men and rejected it. The can re-negotiate thier CBA at the proper time when their current contract runs out. I don't understand what their beef is if this is true?
The judge is correct. Everything you stated is correct.

That, as I have been saying, is the issue. This has nothing to do with "equality" or "equal pay".

The whole thing has been a publicity stunt. Thats the harsh reality of this entire situation. They just want more money, and some of the older, more established players in the team are looking for retirement checks.

whyneverme
Post #30
Tuesday May 5, 2020 8:05pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 94
I suppose the additional appearance fees and the publicity some of the more public USWNT members will receive while this is appealed / discussed is also going to generate more revenue for those players. It's a no lose situation for the USWNT. The longer it drags on, the more they stay relevant in the sporting landscape. If it is settled in their favor, they get more money!

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