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cudevil
Post #61
Monday February 3, 2020 8:26pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,015
Original post from bjelks

@cudevil I don't consider Robinson in the Yedlin convo bcuz Robinson is a pure lb and Yedlin a pure rb. Also Robinson plays in the championship not league one


But the idea is whether you put Dest at RB and then Robinson or Cannon at LB, or that you put Yedlin at RB, while flipping Dest to LB.

And frack, I know Wigan is in the Championship-I was fixated on the fact that they will likely be in League One next year.

cudevil
Post #62
Monday February 3, 2020 8:30pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,015
Original post from Lilshmike

Again, you're contradicting your own arguments here.

Long hasn't faced good competition is a claim you're making, and that we can't rate him because he hasn't faced good competition internationally and is in MLS... but then you also make the claim that Llanez showed his class in this last USMNT match... in a game against a Costa Rica B team...

I'm not ragging on Llanez, only pointing out that you're applying an inconsistent standard. And for what its worth, Dest got into the national team after breaking into the first team at Ajax... not the other way around. So your use of him as an example is a poor one.

You're tooting a horn on Ledezma thats just craziness too. At his age, Pulisic was playing regularly for a better team in a better league. Pulisic is the closest thing we have to a world class player... and even he isn't world class. Hes on the cusp, but he isn't there yet. Ledezma may have potential to be good down the road... but throwing world class in to describe him is actually ridiculous. He is in the 2nd division in Holland. Neymar was tiny when he went to Barcelona. He is world class. If you're world class, then teams find a way to get you in the game. Ledezma just isn't there yet. Plain and simple.

EPB is playing at a level comparable to MLS. Not saying that he shouldn't be in the conversation, but he should in no way get brownie points for being in Europe when compared to the rest of the field given he is basically playing at the same level as MLS. Long and Zimmerman have done good enough to earn their spot on the roster, or at the very least, be part of the debate. Miazga, Brooks, and Ream too. With a number of guys in front of EPB, hes on the outside looking in and hasn't created a very strong argument yet. Thats before even mentioning Richards who is essentially playing at the USL level.

And no, I don't think we can all agree that Chandler is better going forward than Yedlin.


EPB shouldn't get "brownie points" for playing in Europe, per se. I do, however, think it is far more difficult to secure and keep a staring spot in Europe. The margins are thinner and the expectations are higher, even if playing in a lesser league relative to the Prem, La Liga, etc. etc.

bjelks
Post #63
Monday February 3, 2020 8:38pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,425
Original post from Lilshmike

Again, you're contradicting your own arguments here.

Long hasn't faced good competition is a claim you're making, and that we can't rate him because he hasn't faced good competition internationally and is in MLS... but then you also make the claim that Llanez showed his class in this last USMNT match... in a game against a Costa Rica B team...

I'm not ragging on Llanez, only pointing out that you're applying an inconsistent standard. And for what its worth, Dest got into the national team after breaking into the first team at Ajax... not the other way around. So your use of him as an example is a poor one.

You're tooting a horn on Ledezma thats just craziness too. At his age, Pulisic was playing regularly for a better team in a better league. Pulisic is the closest thing we have to a world class player... and even he isn't world class. Hes on the cusp, but he isn't there yet. Ledezma may have potential to be good down the road... but throwing world class in to describe him is actually ridiculous. He is in the 2nd division in Holland. Neymar was tiny when he went to Barcelona. He is world class. If you're world class, then teams find a way to get you in the game. Ledezma just isn't there yet. Plain and simple.

EPB is playing at a level comparable to MLS. Not saying that he shouldn't be in the conversation, but he should in no way get brownie points for being in Europe when compared to the rest of the field given he is basically playing at the same level as MLS. Long and Zimmerman have done good enough to earn their spot on the roster, or at the very least, be part of the debate. Miazga, Brooks, and Ream too. With a number of guys in front of EPB, hes on the outside looking in and hasn't created a very strong argument yet. Thats before even mentioning Richards who is essentially playing at the USL level.

And no, I don't think we can all agree that Chandler is better going forward than Yedlin.


Nope never said Long hasn't faced good competition. I said he's been bad against avg or low competition. Now sure how you got that.

The only standard I used is that against the same competition Llaynez looked better than your mls and USA vets. It took Dest becoming an Ajax regular for a call up which is a joke bc anyone with half a brain knows he didn't improve significantly in 3 months.
Someone looked at the talent he already had and promoted him.

Again I said Ledezma has world class ability on the ball.
CP is a world class player which is why he's a top player for a top 16 club in the world and one of the best players in his position in the best league in the world.
Ledezma is a central mid which are usually thought to be bigger than wings which Neymar is.
They have different roles.
If you can't understand the difference between having the ability and being world class right now, I can't help you.

I'll call you out again and say Zimmerman sucks and Long has been exposed so they haven't earned any right to automatic and indefensible call ups.
Austria although it's half the size of mls, has much more valuable players according to transfermarket and sells more as well.

If you can't agree Chandler is more technical and offensively gifted than Yedlin, I'm just gonna have to conclude you're arguing for arguing sake or don't know what you're looking at
goalsense
Know Nothing
Post #64
Monday February 3, 2020 9:40pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,758
It is understandable Llanez looked significantly better because he has been in training while the MLS guys have been off.

bjelks
Post #65
Monday February 3, 2020 11:16pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,425
We've seen Arriola, Lletegt, and Yueill in mid season form and none of them have showed the technical ability, speed of thought, and creativity Llaynez showed as a U19 Bundesliga player yesterday.

In football, you'll either have it by 20 or never have it. Arriola, Lletget, and Yueill have never had it.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #66
Monday February 3, 2020 11:32pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,350
Original post from bjelks

We've seen Arriola, Lletegt, and Yueill in mid season form and none of them have showed the technical ability, speed of thought, and creativity Llaynez showed as a U19 Bundesliga player yesterday.

In football, you'll either have it by 20 or never have it. Arriola, Lletget, and Yueill have never had it.
You made it a point to discredit my example of Neymar vs Ledezma on the world class topic due in part to them having different roles (Neymar is a winger and Ledezma is a CM)... but then you just compared Llanez, a winger, to Lletget and Yueill, both CMs.

Prime example of your inconsistent and contradictory standards and arguments. Thanks for that.

Hahaha you can't make this stuff up, people!

Dave
Post #67
Tuesday February 4, 2020 2:22am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,027
Original post from Know Nothing

The Dest/Cannon/Yedlin argument really depends on where you want to play Dest...is he more valuable as an attacker or as a defender?

I would argue you could play Dest as a winger and Yedlin/Cannon as RB and we would be stronger and more balanced than say Dest as RB and someone else on the wing.

I can imagine a 4-2-3-1 with a front four of Weah, Sargent, CP, and Dest with Adams and WM in supporting MF roles.


I'm with you on the formation, but is playing Dest at RW the best use for him considering we've got Reyna, Weah, Vassilev, & Llanez emerging as options to play the wing positions? Additionally if Ledezma or Mendez breaks in as the Attacking CM than Pulisic could play one of the Wings.
It all comes down to who develops first...our wing options or CM options.
-
I get Dest could be deployed as a wide midfielder, and it could make since in certain situations....where we need the extra defensive coverage...but if I were going to do it I'd be more inclined to do it on the weak side (Left) with A. Robinson & Dest. However, I'm still more inclined to field our defenders as defenders. Especially if we've got Adams & McKennie sitting in front of the back line....we can take a little more risk on the wing knowing we've got defensive coverage.

bjelks
Post #68
Tuesday February 4, 2020 3:33am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,425
Original post from Lilshmike

You made it a point to discredit my example of Neymar vs Ledezma on the world class topic due in part to them having different roles (Neymar is a winger and Ledezma is a CM)... but then you just compared Llanez, a winger, to Lletget and Yueill, both CMs.

Prime example of your inconsistent and contradictory standards and arguments. Thanks for that.

Hahaha you can't make this stuff up, people!


You've made it a point to not understand the difference between someone having ability and that ability being realized.
That is why the Neymar vs Ledezma argument is a moot point.
Also different positions mature faster than others and Ledezma just happens to play the most difficult position to break through.
Prime example of you being full of shit and playing naive to feed your narrative.

Now the Llaynez to Yueill/Lletget comparison was a different topic altogether.
It was a simple observation that against like competition you can see that the U19 player looks like a more competent player than his mls and USA vet counterparts.
I didn't make a comment about LLaynez's ability vs where he is right now, I just used his actual performance as an example of why all first team mins aren't created equal.
goalsense
Know Nothing
Post #69
Tuesday February 4, 2020 6:30am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,758
Original post from bjelks

We've seen Arriola, Lletegt, and Yueill in mid season form and none of them have showed the technical ability, speed of thought, and creativity Llaynez showed as a U19 Bundesliga player yesterday.

In football, you'll either have it by 20 or never have it. Arriola, Lletget, and Yueill have never had it.


And yet Lletget was pushing on the door of the West Ham first team in his late teens. The same academy that produced Frank Lampard, Joe Cole, Michael Carrick, Rio Ferdinand, and Jermaine Defoe.

db707
Post #70
Tuesday February 4, 2020 2:17pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,051
Original post from Lilshmike

You made it a point to discredit my example of Neymar vs Ledezma on the world class topic due in part to them having different roles (Neymar is a winger and Ledezma is a CM)... but then you just compared Llanez, a winger, to Lletget and Yueill, both CMs.

Prime example of your inconsistent and contradictory standards and arguments. Thanks for that.

Hahaha you can't make this stuff up, people!


And he just said guys either have it or don't by 20, yet he's argued (repeatedly) for 25 year old MLS washout and Swedish league benchwarmer Romain Gall to be called up. I guess we're to deduce that Gall doesn't have it.

bjelks
Post #71
Tuesday February 4, 2020 3:17pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,425
Original post from Know Nothing

And yet Lletget was pushing on the door of the West Ham first team in his late teens. The same academy that produced Frank Lampard, Joe Cole, Michael Carrick, Rio Ferdinand, and Jermaine Defoe.


I'm familiar with Lletget's background but the facts are he stayed at West Ham until 22 and never broke through. He could've went to the Championship or Holland or France and continued to develop, but he decided to take the easy route to minutes and plateaued ever since. He's by all accounts an average player in every aspect of the game and can't be useful if you want to beat Mexico or better teams.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #72
Tuesday February 4, 2020 5:02pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,425
Original post from db707

And he just said guys either have it or don't by 20, yet he's argued (repeatedly) for 25 year old MLS washout and Swedish league benchwarmer Romain Gall to be called up. I guess we're to deduce that Gall doesn't have it.


We've been very weak at wing for the past 3 yrs.
Gall is playing on a team that would smack the mls champs.
He had a 1:2 goal ratio as a wing last yr.
Most of his goals were from 18 yds or more.
We can always use a player that can score from range and play on a team better than the mls champ
goalsense
Philip
Post #73
Tuesday February 4, 2020 8:37pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 35
Original post from bjelks

We've been very weak at wing for the past 3 yrs.
Gall is playing on a team that would smack the mls champs.
He had a 1:2 goal ratio as a wing last yr.
Most of his goals were from 18 yds or more.
We can always use a player that can score from range and play on a team better than the mls champ

He has played 45 times and scored 9 goals in his time at Malmo. How many times has he been an unused substitute? You are cherry picking stats to support your position and ignoring the whole picture.

bjelks
Post #74
Tuesday February 4, 2020 8:51pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,425
Original post from Philip

He has played 45 times and scored 9 goals in his time at Malmo. How many times has he been an unused substitute? You are cherry picking stats to support your position and ignoring the whole picture.


I was calling for him last yr when he scored 6 goals in 12 games.
On the top team in Sweden that played in UEFA League.
Again, he's shown better quality than Arriola, Lewis, Baird and Morris and was playing at a higher level.
The whole picture is that our MLS wings sucked then and still suck now and he deserved a shot.
Now we have Reyna, Weah, Konrad, and Uly who are better players.
Lastly, I'm more interested in what players can do and what we need than the politics associated with minutes.
goalsense
Philip
Post #75
Tuesday February 4, 2020 9:30pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 35
Original post from bjelks

I was calling for him last yr when he scored 6 goals in 12 games.
On the top team in Sweden that played in UEFA League.
Again, he's shown better quality than Arriola, Lewis, Baird and Morris and was playing at a higher level.
The whole picture is that our MLS wings sucked then and still suck now and he deserved a shot.
Now we have Reyna, Weah, Konrad, and Uly who are better players.
Lastly, I'm more interested in what players can do and what we need than the politics associated with minutes.

He didn't score 6 in 12, he played 18 games last year.

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