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bjelks
Post #61
Friday October 18, 2019 5:25pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,347
Do you think we should re-evaluate CP, Mckennie and Sarg with better parts around them?
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #62
Friday October 18, 2019 6:53pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,270
Original post from bjelks

Do you think we should re-evaluate CP, Mckennie and Sarg with better parts around them?
Sure, I think it would be valuable to see CP and McKennie with a few different characters. I still think Sargent needs some more time before hes ready to lead the line.

Guys like Adams, Brooks, Holmes, Alvarado, Morales, Amon if healthy and playing, Weah when healthy and playing, maybe Green or someone else. The problem is most of those guys have been injured during FIFA windows or are coming back from injury/not in form.

It would be great if Brooks, Weah, Adams, Holmes, Morales, Amon were not all hurt/had not gotten at inopportune times. We can only deal with the hand we're given, and the USMNT has had pretty crappy luck in the injury department for 2019. Nobody can be blamed for that.

Also, Morris is not a winger. He is a striker. I would like to see him put up top again instead of out wide.

cudevil
Post #63
Friday October 18, 2019 6:53pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 984
The idea that we shouldn't be worried about qualifying at the moment because the Hex hasn't started is...odd. Should we wait until we are 4 games in, with 4 points (maybe) in hand? These issues need to get addressed now-before qualifying starts-because if this is the level that we are going to be playing at, we might finish last in the group.

Lilshmike
Post #64
Friday October 18, 2019 7:01pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,270
Original post from cudevil

The idea that we shouldn't be worried about qualifying at the moment because the Hex hasn't started is...odd. Should we wait until we are 4 games in, with 4 points (maybe) in hand? These issues need to get addressed now-before qualifying starts-because if this is the level that we are going to be playing at, we might finish last in the group.
Its not that we shouldn't be worried about it. Its that people are claiming we are in danger of not qualifying for the WC. Thats just factually false. We have the exact same odds as any other nation in the hex considering not a single one has played a game yet.

If we continue to play poorly, yes, thats alarming. As I stated, if we do poor in the November games (with the vast majority of our better players, ie most of the guys who played in the Canada game) and the USSF is considering their contingency plan, then they need to pull the rip chord before camp cupcake and not look back. And if they do so, the only person I think should get the job is Tab Ramos.

As long as there would be a quick transition in that event, I don't think many people would be upset... myself included.

cudevil
Post #65
Friday October 18, 2019 7:12pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 984
Trying to score debate points by arguing that "we aren't in danger of not qualifying" because qualifying hasn't started verges on the pedantic. The consistent run of horrible performances under Berhalter places very much "in danger of not qualifying". There is no way we will qualify based on the run of form under Berhalter.

Lilshmike
Post #66
Friday October 18, 2019 8:38pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,270
Original post from cudevil

Trying to score debate points by arguing that "we aren't in danger of not qualifying" because qualifying hasn't started verges on the pedantic. The consistent run of horrible performances under Berhalter places very much "in danger of not qualifying". There is no way we will qualify based on the run of form under Berhalter.
Its not about trying to score debate points. Its about stating facts and putting things into context through objective analysis instead of subjective opinion. The same was said before the GC and everyone thought we were in danger of not even making the final. We finished second after winning every game except for 1 (a 1-0 loss in the final to Mexico), while finishing first in goal differential, first in goals against, second in goals scored (to Mexico by 1 goal). From an unbiased perspective, we performed pretty well that tournament, in-line with realistic expectations, and lost a close game in the final to a superior opponent where we were not clearly outclassed.

The only talk has been that his player selections are bad and that if Gregg only called in the players the fans (people on this site) wanted to see, then our situation would improve... that, and that the USSF is either evil or incompetent. None of that provides any path forward or solution to the issue.

How about instead of people bitching about how they think Gregg is awful, how we look terrible, or may not qualify for the WC, or general doom and gloom, why not present something of substance that actually provides some sort of action and solution?

Do we fire Gregg? If so, when do we do it and who replaces him? If not, then what is the expectation and how much time do you give for him to get things right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I may be the only person on the boards currently doing this...

bjelks
Post #67
Friday October 18, 2019 8:58pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,347
I'll be constructive.

If Gregg doesn't flip this roster by 11-12 players, if he plays Lovitz, Roldan, Baird, Bradley, Zardes, Trapp again and we don't beat Canada by multiple goals, he absolutely has to go before 2020.

If he leaves a healthy Morales or Holmes he has to go.

If he doesn't bring in new non-mls players like a Sonora, EPB or Gall or young players, he has to go.

I'm for replacing him with Tab. He knows the young players.
Or Alameyda, he understands players and tactics at a high level.
goalsense
cudevil
Post #68
Friday October 18, 2019 10:32pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 984
Original post from Lilshmike

Its not about trying to score debate points. Its about stating facts and putting things into context through objective analysis instead of subjective opinion. The same was said before the GC and everyone thought we were in danger of not even making the final. We finished second after winning every game except for 1 (a 1-0 loss in the final to Mexico), while finishing first in goal differential, first in goals against, second in goals scored (to Mexico by 1 goal). From an unbiased perspective, we performed pretty well that tournament, in-line with realistic expectations, and lost a close game in the final to a superior opponent where we were not clearly outclassed.

The only talk has been that his player selections are bad and that if Gregg only called in the players the fans (people on this site) wanted to see, then our situation would improve... that, and that the USSF is either evil or incompetent. None of that provides any path forward or solution to the issue.

How about instead of people bitching about how they think Gregg is awful, how we look terrible, or may not qualify for the WC, or general doom and gloom, why not present something of substance that actually provides some sort of action and solution?

Do we fire Gregg? If so, when do we do it and who replaces him? If not, then what is the expectation and how much time do you give for him to get things right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I may be the only person on the boards currently doing this...


First, the issue is that you dismiss off hand trying to take risks in the player pool. It's difficult if not impossible to have any conversation when you simply won't consider slightly outside the box options. Hell, you seem skeptical that Sargent should be called in at this point. If you are barely willing to concede that, what's the point in talking?

Second, you treat as fact statements that Bradley, as an example, have to be part of the 23. That's not a fact.

Third, I don't care what the stats said about the Gold Cup, the eye test suggested that our showing weren't great. Aside form that, the results against Venezuela, Jamaica, Mexico, and Canada suggest that the Gold Cup, particularly the final, were an aberration under Berhalter.

Fourth, even if you don't want to call in some of the kids in reserves in Europe, there's still Pomykal, Cappis, Sabbi, Hines-Ike, Alvarado, Holmes, Morales, Green, Mihailovic, etc.

Fifth, I would fire Berhalter now. I'd probably go with Ramos, but I think a fast search could happen provided they don't do stupid things like requiring proficiency in English.

But frankly, it's not our job to come up with solutions. We aren't employed by USSF. USSF is the one that needs to make changes when the problems are so obvious.

hamsamwich
Post #69
Friday October 18, 2019 11:10pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,212
Being more inclusive would be a start. The decisions made last year are still mostly the same decisions. Camp cupcake in Qatar this winter is just a continuation of that. So if Berhalter is seeing the same guys and doing the same stuff, will we get a different result?

Continuing on the same path as our youth development and youth national sides play. That requires changing the defense to an active pressing team. That means changing players. Will Gregg do that?

The gold cup was poor from a soccer standpoint. We weren't good. Still are not. Look shaky at best at the moment.

Get the players that make plays the ball don't have it be dependent on the distribution of the central midfielder.

It's time we hand the captains armband to Adams when he returns and build the team around him, none of these players is a leader. I'm the most disappointed in Michael Bradley, who continues to let us down with his play and leadership.

db707
Post #70
Friday October 18, 2019 11:19pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,008
@cudevil, in terms of your points, what I'd say is:
1) We do have to try more players, I fully agree with that. I remain wary of bringing in players with no first team experience, I can only see doing that in rare and exceptional cases (like if Kovac says Richards is ready for the first team level, but they don't have a spot for him yet, and he can't be loaned out to someone else's first team until the window opens).
2) I want to get rid of Bradley as much as the next guy, but one can argue our three best options to replace him are Adams (injured recently), Williams (regularly injured for most of the last two years) and Nagbe (declining callups). And we called Morales, then he got hurt (but is back now). There have been extenuating circumstances, unfortunately.
3) I agree with you on the Gold Cup. We had a weak draw that masked some of the problems. Guyana with mostly semi-pros and amateurs, T&T and Panama are both down from where they were in 2018 qualifying. Then we got Curacao and barely beat them, before beating Jamaica, an ok win. One can argue 4 of the 6 best (if not 4 of the 5 best) teams (Mexico, Haiti, Canada and Costa Rica) were on the other side of the draw, and we also avoided Honduras because Curacao held on despite a 35-7 shot disadvantage.
4) Yes, let's talk about the guys who are first team pros who may warrant a look, in Europe and in MLS. You named some of them. I'd like to see Cappis, Holmes, Morales, Alvarado and Hines-Ike at least. Green's fine with me too. My point has just been calling new guys in not based on first team form (they sit the bench, have been injured for a long period, aren't ready for the first team at a not so spectacular club, etc.) isn't much better than calling the same tired names in based on nothing, you're just showing favoritism to different guys rather than basing selection on merit.
5) USSF totally bungled the hiring process. I think if we fire Berhalter after November, I'd bring in an outside coach. Willingness to adjust style to personnel is key, and I'd rather the new manager not have prior working relationships with the players. Less playing of favorites the better.

cudevil
Post #71
Saturday October 19, 2019 12:00am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 984
Like I've said, I currently don't see much risk in trying a Ledezma, Richards, Mendez, EPB, Gloster, or Soto at this point. We hit the bottom of the Marianas Trench against T&T, and since then have only bounced along/drug across the bottom.

I mean, we played Morris with the first team when he was still in college and he held his own with the senior team. Why not take a chance?

db707
Post #72
Saturday October 19, 2019 12:16am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,008
I am just saying let's call the other senior team options first, give them a chance. EPB is a senior level player at this point, just not with his big parent club (situation similar to CCV or Miazga). So he's not in that same boat. Soto too, he just hasn't played much for Hannover.

Samtom23
Post #73
Saturday October 19, 2019 1:53am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 108
I can agree with condescending. The keyboard warriors seems like not entitled to have a different opinion.

But I am not pissed but disappointed and I do think you can hold some responsibility to US soccer in general. It took 418 days to get a new coach. The other nations that didn't qualify got new coaches in a matter of days and weeks. It is missed opportunities.

I don't fault GB for that. I do fault him for not getting out of his comfort zone and finding the players, he needs, whether MLS or European. In Colombus, he had Higuain working along Trapp to help him implement his system but US currently doesn't have a Higuain type player. You can fault Berhalter for not trying to phase out the old midfielders and giving a shot to younger players, that might fit the mold.

I know some of the players I advocate for are young. Ledezema, Soto, Richards, Gloster and Mendez and their club situation is still working itself out. I just believe we don't have as much talent as we would like. I personally feel Ledezema is ready now, And he happens to be a year older than Dest.

And for the young Euro players. I give them so credit, 18-22 years old and travelling across the world to pursue their dreams. They are gaining so much life experience so I think this gives a maturity compared to most.

Samtom23
Post #74
Saturday October 19, 2019 7:16am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 108
So after the latest debacle, who would everyone like to see?

GK- Steffen, Horvath and Johnson

Defenders: Cannon, Hines-Ike, Miazga, Dest/Gloster, Richards, Long, Robinson

Midfielders/Wingers: Adams, Mckennie, Pomykal, Lledzma, Holmes, Morales, Hyndman, Cappis, Mendez, Pulisic, Amon, Morris

Forwards: Sargent, Nova, Soto、 Weah (if healthy), Lewis

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #75
Saturday October 19, 2019 8:10am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,516
I want to see what Dotson looks like as a 6...supposedly he impressed with the u23s... Richards, Gloster...Pomykal....I doubt Dest chooses US, but if he did I'd play him at Leftmid....with Gloster behind him.

I liked Robinson...I like Long's game....but I would bring in Richards right now...get him a couple years experience prior to the WC...he's blue chip all the way.

I'd like to see how Pomykal would look as an 8, since he has a decent defensive side...or Adams as the 8...if Dotson pans out as the 6...with Pomykal or Holmes further up.

who knows, I'll take a flyer....Maybe in two years it looks something like this.

...............Steff...........
Mckennie...Robinson...Richards....Gloster
..............Dotson.........
.......................Adams............
Pulisic........Pomykal...............Dest
.................Sarg...............

There are a lot of possibilities for the ACM.

You may think I'm crazy, but I don't like Mckennie's game up field. I think we'll have better options as we move forward...I think he plays deeper...I wouldn't mind seeing him in the back.

And I'll stick to my prediction from last year that Yedlin and Brooks won't be starting for us at the next WC.

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