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bjelks
Post #526
Thursday November 21, 2019 8:16pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,362
Original post from Lilshmike

Point out where I mentioned Acosta. Haha you can't because I haven't. Thanks for putting words in my mouth (again).

Again.. what are you even talking about? We have guys from lots of races and backgrounds in our national team setup. Pretty much all have the same thing in common though... they are playing consistently at a level as good or better than MLS.

But, you've caught me. I support the racist USSoccer agenda. I also have a lunch meeting today with the Boogey Man so we can plan Thanksgiving next week with Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.


It's not about you mentioning Acosta, I'm mentioning Acosta and pointing out that Acosta was mysteriously blackballed and much lesser players have got numerous chances.

How about Fab Johnson said he's been waiting for a call for over a yr and said he hasn't heard from Gregg?

How about Tim Chandler who plays at a level clearly higher than MLS and regardless of how you feel about his past performances, we have numerous guys that have had multiple recent worse performances and have had multiple call ups?

I clearly said minorities, duals, and youth that are clearly inferior players that play in mls are given preference to the like that play in equal or even better leagues abroad.
Examples above
How come when someone makes a point that doesn't align with your fanboy narrative your comprehension goes awry lol?

Your opinion is that MLS is better than Nor and Den. I've listed sources that disagree.
Sweden maybe worse, but Malmo isn't.

Your opinion is Danny Williams level isn't good enough.
Well how could he be worse than Roldan or Trapp as a bench option? Which you've stated doesn't matter.

Keep saying bullshit and I'll keep calling you out

Joel Sonora plays regularly in a league better than MLS by world standards, why don't you acknowledge his snubs?

So many holes In your arguments I could go on for days
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #527
Thursday November 21, 2019 8:50pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,301
Original post from bjelks

It's not about you mentioning Acosta, I'm mentioning Acosta and pointing out that Acosta was mysteriously blackballed and much lesser players have got numerous chances.

How about Fab Johnson said he's been waiting for a call for over a yr and said he hasn't heard from Gregg?

How about Tim Chandler who plays at a level clearly higher than MLS and regardless of how you feel about his past performances, we have numerous guys that have had multiple recent worse performances and have had multiple call ups?

I clearly said minorities, duals, and youth that are clearly inferior players that play in mls are given preference to the like that play in equal or even better leagues abroad.
Examples above
How come when someone makes a point that doesn't align with your fanboy narrative your comprehension goes awry lol?

Your opinion is that MLS is better than Nor and Den. I've listed sources that disagree.
Sweden maybe worse, but Malmo isn't.


Your opinion is Danny Williams level isn't good enough.
Well how could he be worse than Roldan or Trapp as a bench option? Which you've stated doesn't matter.

Keep saying bullshit and I'll keep calling you out

Joel Sonora plays regularly in a league better than MLS by world standards, why don't you acknowledge his snubs?

So many holes In your arguments I could go on for days
Haha you're hilarious.

Fabian Johnson has been injured, has only palyed 3 games this year, and is going to be 35 next WC. Based on playing time and form, he hasn't made a case. Based on his age, he is on the cusp of being aged out. You yourself have said we need to get rid of the old. Hes going to be old. I like him, but at this time its not a travesty he isn't included... and its not due to racism.

Chandler may have an argument... but we have a lot of guys to take a look at in the back line. Take a guy who has been sub par for the USMNT who plays in Bundesliga... or a multi-year premier league starter and a starter for Ajax who is on the rise? Again, he has an argument and I wouldn't be opposed to it, but his exclusion is not controversial... and its not due to racism.

Yes... Norway, Denmark and Sweden are at or below the level of MLS. Some random stat site you posted doesn't change that. Playing in those leagues is not impressive - certainly not more impressive than playing in MLS. They are on the same level. So any exclusions from those leagues, in particular from guys who are inconsistent performers and guys who aren't starters (Gall at Malmo), is not noteworthy... and its not due to racism.

And for the record, I think Amon should get a look... but he consistently struggles with injuries, so his exclusion at this time is not noteworthy... and its not due to racism.

Danny Williams hadn't played consistently for over a year. He had a bad injury, it took him time to get back to health, and now he is playing at a lower level than MLS. When he was playing in the Prem, he was called in. When he got hurt and couldn't get games, he wasn't. Now he is working his way back to form, but still at a low level and hasn't done enough to make a strong case to get called back in over someone else. Thats not noteworthy... and its not due to racism.

Joel Sonora is building a case... but its not like the Argentinian league is head and shoulders above MLS to where a guy who is an inconsistent starter/consistent substitute (look at his stats, thats his role) has solidified himself as a must call guy. He seems to be getting close to a cap, and I wouldn't be opposed to it, but up to this point it hasn't exactly been the most convincing argument. Therefore, his exclusion is not noteworthy... and its not due to racism.

Again... this isn't some racist conspiracy theory... most of the guys you cry about just aren't doing enough to make the cut. Plain and simple.

Know Nothing
Post #528
Thursday November 21, 2019 9:10pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,699
Original post from Lilshmike

Are you saying that Morris hasn't done enough with his chance or hasn't earned the right to be in the national team? That is legitimately the name he mentioned in his post. Come on now.


Look at my post...I never stated an opinion on the matter. My post, as stated earlier in more polite terms, was to call you a hypocrite.

db707
Post #529
Thursday November 21, 2019 9:17pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,016
Chandler's only started once in the league this season, and was an unused sub in 4 of 5 games before the break. Sonora hasn't started since early September. Gall's a sub, hasn't started since September either. Amon is barely playing these days. An argument making a compelling case for an individual player where it exists (and cases do exist for guys who've been left out, for guys like Sabbi, Holmes, A. Robinson in particular), I can respect. But this broad brush stuff that doesn't account at all for the current form or club situation of a player, no.

Lilshmike
Post #530
Thursday November 21, 2019 9:21pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,301
Original post from Know Nothing

Look at my post...I never stated an opinion on the matter. My post, as stated earlier in more polite terms, was to call you a hypocrite.
What have I stated that makes me a hypocrite?

Know Nothing
Post #531
Thursday November 21, 2019 11:16pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,699
Original post from Lilshmike

Again, quit the crap spewing about us being in danger of not qualifying for the WC. We haven't played a game yet, so that's just factually false.


Cmon dude, there is a difference between inaccurate and false. Since nobody has qualified, everyone has the same possibility of not qualifying. So technically, not qualifying is a possibility, which since it is possible, cannot be false.

Know Nothing
Post #532
Thursday November 21, 2019 11:23pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,699
Original post from Lilshmike

What have I stated that makes me a hypocrite?


You have derided bjelks and stoked's arguments about players in inferior leagues and dismissed their sources yet have not offered a source of your own to prove your own point that MLS is superior to these leagues.

I do not recall you putting forth your own source stating MLS is a superior league...you expect us to accept your argument as cannon while you refute everyone else when they provide you with proof. Hypocritical.

cudevil
Post #533
Thursday November 21, 2019 11:40pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 989
@lilshmike: Aside from it being silly to disqualify anyone in Europe that isn't playing in one of the big domestic leagues, plus 2.Bundes and the League Championship (how did Mixx Diskerud do for the Nats when he was playing at Stabaek?), on what basis do we determine which leagues are lower than the MLS? What objective metrics do we use to reach the conclusion that the top leagues in Denmark, Austria, or Belgium, as examples, are or are not better than the MLS?

Not really sure what the objection would be to playing most of the U23 team in the Confed Cup. Most of them meet your criteria: CCV, Glad, Herrera, Vines, Lewis, Toye, Mihailovic, Ebobisse, Lennon, Dotson, Aaronson, Saucedo, etc. Why not put them in a competitive environment against some minnows?

bjelks
Post #534
Thursday November 21, 2019 11:41pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,362
Original post from Lilshmike

Haha you're hilarious.

Fabian Johnson has been injured, has only palyed 3 games this year, and is going to be 35 next WC. Based on playing time and form, he hasn't made a case. Based on his age, he is on the cusp of being aged out. You yourself have said we need to get rid of the old. Hes going to be old. I like him, but at this time its not a travesty he isn't included... and its not due to racism.

Chandler may have an argument... but we have a lot of guys to take a look at in the back line. Take a guy who has been sub par for the USMNT who plays in Bundesliga... or a multi-year premier league starter and a starter for Ajax who is on the rise? Again, he has an argument and I wouldn't be opposed to it, but his exclusion is not controversial... and its not due to racism.

Yes... Norway, Denmark and Sweden are at or below the level of MLS. Some random stat site you posted doesn't change that. Playing in those leagues is not impressive - certainly not more impressive than playing in MLS. They are on the same level. So any exclusions from those leagues, in particular from guys who are inconsistent performers and guys who aren't starters (Gall at Malmo), is not noteworthy... and its not due to racism.

And for the record, I think Amon should get a look... but he consistently struggles with injuries, so his exclusion at this time is not noteworthy... and its not due to racism.

Danny Williams hadn't played consistently for over a year. He had a bad injury, it took him time to get back to health, and now he is playing at a lower level than MLS. When he was playing in the Prem, he was called in. When he got hurt and couldn't get games, he wasn't. Now he is working his way back to form, but still at a low level and hasn't done enough to make a strong case to get called back in over someone else. Thats not noteworthy... and its not due to racism.

Joel Sonora is building a case... but its not like the Argentinian league is head and shoulders above MLS to where a guy who is an inconsistent starter/consistent substitute (look at his stats, thats his role) has solidified himself as a must call guy. He seems to be getting close to a cap, and I wouldn't be opposed to it, but up to this point it hasn't exactly been the most convincing argument. Therefore, his exclusion is not noteworthy... and its not due to racism.

Again... this isn't some racist conspiracy theory... most of the guys you cry about just aren't doing enough to make the cut. Plain and simple.


Fab Johnson is younger than Bradley and Ream who have started recently.
He was also in form through April and through August for BM.
He was passed on in March, May and July for the likes of Lovitz and Baird.
These are facts. You're lying again.

Excluding Chandler when Lima, Glasper, and Lovitz are in the team is controversial. I call bullshit.

When you can call bench players from mls like Lima or Lewis or underperforming players like Roldan, Baird or Trapp, it's bullshit again.
The trend is you make up any excuse to call mls players or agree with Gregg showing obvious bias. Then you lie and say we have no better options.

Jordan Morris got an automatic call after an 18 month lay off and he's never played in the prem.

What's the common theme?

The problem is players that Gregg doesn't call have to be world class to make a case but you don't disagree with him calling guys that haven't proven anything
goalsense
Samtom23
Post #535
Friday November 22, 2019 5:20am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 122
I wouldn't call Fabian in at this point as a player. I might consider him as a special advisor.

Also, my point is it is hard to compare team and leagues. So players playing in MLS and leagues in Sweden, Denmark and Norway, we cannot definitely say are better or worse than MLS.

Back to our player pool. We have glaring weaknesses at forward and left back. So I think wise to look for depth. I mention Haji not because I think he is great but I think he could be a filler for the time being. If you say Soto or Nokavich isn't ready, use Haji for a match or two. Haji is a not a great example, I think Sabbi is a much better option but that clearly isn't happening for whatever reason.

Also, you mentioned dual nationals Kik Pierre and Jeremy Toljan. There hasn't been any pursuit of them since Sacharan was coach as near as I can tell. What about Siebatchu and Tillman. It seems all quiet on those fronts. Is GB make calls behind the scenes? Or just doing the same old, same old.

yodaddy101
Post #536
Friday November 22, 2019 5:38pm

Joined Aug 2013
Total Posts: 163
i don't usually jump into these things but Samtom made a solid point. Generally, Berhalter is not pursuing many dual nationals but is rather opting to use MLS players. What it means is that Berhalter thinks there isn't a lot of talent outside of MLS for the US at this point, or simply he is pushing an MLS agenda. Another thing Klinsmann did was play Jordan Morris while he was still at Stanford. Under Berhalter, Morris would have never gotten a glance because he's not apart of MLS or getting regular minutes for a proffesional team. Klinsmann could identify talent regardless of the team they are playing for and then push the players to become their best selves. Regardless if they actually did it or not was their choice but he gave opportunities to "diamonds in the rough" not "established" players which is all Berhalter is catering to at this point. He hasn't shown to really be expanding his player pool but i feel all of this goes back to his lack of game tactic knowledge and how to use players and play the game. He firmly believes in a system and if you don't fit you're done.
Ride or Die. -USMNT
Lilshmike
Post #537
Friday November 22, 2019 6:03pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,301
Original post from Know Nothing

You have derided bjelks and stoked's arguments about players in inferior leagues and dismissed their sources yet have not offered a source of your own to prove your own point that MLS is superior to these leagues.

I do not recall you putting forth your own source stating MLS is a superior league...you expect us to accept your argument as cannon while you refute everyone else when they provide you with proof. Hypocritical.
I've provided evidence in the past, for Sweden in particular, with respect to players who have gone back and forth between leagues and MLS. I've also brought up UEFA coefficients. There is no need to blast off in depth analysis each thread... especially when people selectively pull things from a post and put words in others mouths... reading comprehension is a widespread issue...

So no, I'm not a hypocrite.

To be clear, nobody has provided any proof whatsoever of any claim that these leagues are better than MLS. Nobody. Period. Not even you. So there has been no refuting anyone's "proof" except for bjelks most recent post of some random blog site.

The only person who brought up tangible facts in any debate was bjelks with respect to debating that Liga MX is a better league than MLS about a year ago (ignoring his "facts" in the debate on Jozy vs Terrence Boyd), and his only proof was player transfer values... which is weak...

Finding solidified evidence is difficult. There is no standard ranking system for FIFA; however, UEFA does have coefficients that are helpful in analyzing strength of leagues in different nations.

The one source that I think can best answer this question is Nate Silver - world renowned statistician. He keeps stats on tons of soccer leagues, with information pulled from multiple sources to rank the strength of teams around the world. I'll pull something together from him, a respectable and reliable source, and give you my results later to put this to rest.

Lilshmike
Post #538
Friday November 22, 2019 6:11pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,301
Original post from cudevil

@lilshmike: Aside from it being silly to disqualify anyone in Europe that isn't playing in one of the big domestic leagues, plus 2.Bundes and the League Championship (how did Mixx Diskerud do for the Nats when he was playing at Stabaek?), on what basis do we determine which leagues are lower than the MLS? What objective metrics do we use to reach the conclusion that the top leagues in Denmark, Austria, or Belgium, as examples, are or are not better than the MLS?

Not really sure what the objection would be to playing most of the U23 team in the Confed Cup. Most of them meet your criteria: CCV, Glad, Herrera, Vines, Lewis, Toye, Mihailovic, Ebobisse, Lennon, Dotson, Aaronson, Saucedo, etc. Why not put them in a competitive environment against some minnows?
Again, is there problem with reading comprehension?

It has to do with where the player plays, how much they play, and what their production is for their position. These 3 things work in tandem.

Player X plays in MLS and Player Y plays in Holland.
Both players are forwards.
Player X plays every game and has scored 10+ goals in MLS.
Although Holland is better than MLS, player Y has only a couple of starts, a few sub appearances, and 2 goals in the league.
For this instance, advantage goes to player X.

Same scenario, but player Y plays in Denmark.
Player X has 10 goals in MLS.
Player Y has 10 goals in Denmark.
Player Y has made a case to get called in.

The standard is consistently playing at a level at or above MLS and producing for your position. If someone is in a Scandinavian league for example and producing lower stats than a counterpart in MLS, there should be no reason to take a look at the guy in Scandanavia or give him preference over anyone from MLS when his stats are worse and he hasn't made a compelling case.

Lilshmike
Post #539
Friday November 22, 2019 6:56pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,301
Building off this, take Sabbi for example.

Lets say that Denmark and MLS are on equal footing. Sabbi has 5 goals in Denmark. Zardes has 13 goals in MLS (using him as an example, NOT DEFENDING).

13 goals is more impressive and more warranting of a call up than 5 goals, especially when the 2 players play the same position in leagues of comparable strength. That is extremely hard to debate on objective evidence.

Lets say that a guy gets a few starts and plays a bunch of minutes as a substitute in Bundesliga and scores 5 goals (a guy like Sargent). His numbers aren't as impressive, however there is something to be said that he is able to play somewhat consistently (albeit in more of a substitute role), and still produce respectably in one of the top leagues in the world. When compared to a guy who has scored 10 goals in MLS, the Bundesliga player has a very strong argument for inclusion.

Take that last example and change it to Sweden (for this, Gall). He plays primarily as a substitute at a level (in my opinion) below MLS. But for the sake of argument, lets suppose they are on equal footing. The player in Sweden is a substitute player who scored 5 goals as a forward. When compared to a guy who plays every week in MLS and has 10 goals, the MLS player has a more compelling argument.

These are examples, none of them are confusing, none of them are controversial, and none of them are unrealistic.

db707
Post #540
Friday November 22, 2019 7:08pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,016
@Lilshmike, Sabbi has 6 goals in 16 games, Zardes had 13 in 28 games. Not a huge disparity, and Sabbi can still catch up in the strike rate (scored in his last 3 games). Number of games those goals were scored in (and how many minutes per game the player is getting) do need to be taken into account for context.

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