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Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #316
Sunday November 10, 2019 5:36pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,062
Original post from hamsamwich

@kamphgruppe- I wouldn't be so hung up on club play. It's obvious that what these guys do at their clubs does not correlate to the "system" run here by Berhalter. What we do at national team level is different and is a major reason why the players already in the group keep getting called in- because they are supposedly better at learning and executing the system (see Baird, etc). If we need international windows over a full year to learn this system, then keeping guys around becomes just as important as adding new players. Yes, they need to be playing at their clubs so they have match fitness.... but other than that their club play doesn't really matter. At the end of the day our coaching is poor and is why we lost to Canada et al.


Huh, when did I say anything about club play?

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #317
Sunday November 10, 2019 5:51pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,062
Original post from bjelks

How can you acknowledge that the quality of your teammates impacts your play and still say that euros played like shit when they had no support? This is why you're a hypocrite. You can't play it both ways.
When you say that no matter how bad the mls players are, the euro guys should carry them you are clearly advocating for the mls guys.
You are forcing mls to be a source of players w/out considering their ability, their form, or their actual natl team performances.
Again this is why your clearly bias to mls.
You want to give them every benefit b4 an abroad player you don't watch every wk. Let's cut the bs and keep it real: you want mls guys on the time no matter how bad they are or who their counterparts are


How can you not acknowledge that Canada had more MLS players than we did and won? So if both teams had shitty MLS players and we lost whats the reason? You will not acknowledge that our Euro guys were not great and blame MLS players for everything. Yes if the players around you are not good your play will be less as you are getting poor passes etc. Alfonso Davis sure didn't seem to have any problems playing great despite his MLS teammate handicap. Why were CP and Mckennie pretty awful that game, it can't all be blamed on their teammates, this is why you are the Hypocrite and have an anti-MLS bias.
Again you put words into my mouth that were never said. I don't want to give any benefit to MLS players at all, I want the best players to play, I don't care what league they are from. I am not forcing or advocating at all for MLS players at all, just pointed out that they played no worse or better than the Euro guys (what you will not acknowledge at all).

You give Euro players a pass when they play badly because they play in Europe, I do not.
I also acknowledge when MLS guys were bad or good. They can only be bad to you.

bjelks
Post #318
Sunday November 10, 2019 7:48pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,767
Original post from Kamphgruppe

How can you not acknowledge that Canada had more MLS players than we did and won? So if both teams had shitty MLS players and we lost whats the reason? You will not acknowledge that our Euro guys were not great and blame MLS players for everything. Yes if the players around you are not good your play will be less as you are getting poor passes etc. Alfonso Davis sure didn't seem to have any problems playing great despite his MLS teammate handicap. Why were CP and Mckennie pretty awful that game, it can't all be blamed on their teammates, this is why you are the Hypocrite and have an anti-MLS bias.
Again you put words into my mouth that were never said. I don't want to give any benefit to MLS players at all, I want the best players to play, I don't care what league they are from. I am not forcing or advocating at all for MLS players at all, just pointed out that they played no worse or better than the Euro guys (what you will not acknowledge at all).

You give Euro players a pass when they play badly because they play in Europe, I do not.
I also acknowledge when MLS guys were bad or good. They can only be bad to you.


I just told you Canada had more mls players than USA and won because their euro players know that this is their best team, have bought into the team, and they play as a team.

We don't play as a team because our euro guys have not bought into the coach's system or selection and try to take the game in their own hands. We're clearly disjointed.
It does not mean Christian and Weston played bad, it means they have no support.
They are themselves every game no matter who is out there. Christian runs at defenders and Mckennie wins balls and drives forward, but when they have no support a naive mls fan will say that didn't play well.

Bradley, lovitz, Roldan offered absolutely nothing. It was like we were short 3 whole players.
Long, Morris, Ream put in good efforts but when you need them to do anything individually, they cannot execute. They're just not good enough 1v1, they do not have the skill, quality, athleticism, creativity.
CP ran at 4 defenders at a time.
Mckennie battles for 50/50s and covered for Bradley. Tried to play through the midfield as instructed.
Sarg made smart runs and came back for the ball. No possession no service no link play.
Yedlin is solid 1v1 defensively.
Like I said you can't expect them to look like they're club selves with no support. But you're too busy trying to defend mls.

Again if you cannot acknowledge that the top players struggle bc they have no support and want to call them out then you clearly don't understand how your teammates impact your performance in a team game and again this makes you a hypocrite.
goalsense
Know Nothing
Post #319
Sunday November 10, 2019 8:28pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,830
@bjelks - I am struggling to see exactly what you want. Closest I can come up with is you want to bring in players that will compliment our good players and make us a cohesive unit?

If that is in fact what you are arguing, well then that may work in the short term. The major flaw with this is that when our good players have bad games we are in trouble...Canada being exhibit A. Yes, the system was flawed from the start as the pieces on the field were not complimentary and it threw off chemistry. Did that contribute to CP and McKennie playing poorly...somewhat but not entirely.

Right now the system isn't working on two different levels. First, we simply don't have the right players yet. You can train your system and train your system, but you need to have players that do compliment each other and can adapt when the other team has their number. We simply are not doing this. Secondly, we are predictable. You can be predictable if you set up to play counterattacking soccer. Otherwise, you become easy to defend and the opponent then can set up to counter you.

Lilshmike
Post #320
Sunday November 10, 2019 8:35pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,510
Original post from Know Nothing

@bjelks - I am struggling to see exactly what you want. Closest I can come up with is you want to bring in players that will compliment our good players and make us a cohesive unit?

If that is in fact what you are arguing, well then that may work in the short term. The major flaw with this is that when our good players have bad games we are in trouble...Canada being exhibit A. Yes, the system was flawed from the start as the pieces on the field were not complimentary and it threw off chemistry. Did that contribute to CP and McKennie playing poorly...somewhat but not entirely.

Right now the system isn't working on two different levels. First, we simply don't have the right players yet. You can train your system and train your system, but you need to have players that do compliment each other and can adapt when the other team has their number. We simply are not doing this. Secondly, we are predictable. You can be predictable if you set up to play counterattacking soccer. Otherwise, you become easy to defend and the opponent then can set up to counter you.
He has no real points. His arguments are ever shifting to fit whatever it is he feels like saying, spewing nonsense til hes blue in the face.

Puts words in people's mouths, name calls to no end, makes outrageous claims on a daily basis. Hes pretty much the definition of a troll. But if these posts are serious... it's pretty sad.

bjelks
Post #321
Sunday November 10, 2019 8:52pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,767
@knownothing 1) I want us to stop calling guys that are proven not good enough.
2) I want us to stop calling random guys from mls that aren't considered all stars, teen sensations, or all mls.
3) I want to stop calling mls players over 23.
4) I want to get comprehensive looks at abroad players in positions of need or leagues comparable to mls or better or young and full of promise.
5) I want to build a system around the strengths of our core best players and be flexible with it.
6) Then we can have an honest/ credible assessment of our team depth, best players, and playing style.

Until then, I'm not entertaining any criticism of Pulisic, Mckennie, Sarg, Dest etc
goalsense
stoked3
Ft Lauderdale, FL
Post #322
Sunday November 10, 2019 11:05pm

Joined Oct 2014
Total Posts: 344
Original post from Lilshmike

To be frank, you're missing the point.

I'm not calling for Zardes. I don't rate him, I've stated that. I'm only giving a reason as for why he has pushed himself into the conversation, whether we like it or not, and others have not. And candidly, Sabbi has done nothing to warrant a call to the senior team yet, other than check off the "plays in Europe" box. People calling for him have never seen him play, yet are getting uptight over his exclusion.

Point blank, that's ignorant.

You bring up Lovitz, Trapp, Bradley, and Baird. How many times do we have to go through this. I'm not defending them, I don't like them, and (with the exception of Bradley as a non-starting roster player) I've stated multiple times, even in this thread, that those guys need to go. So why are you bringing them up like I'm calling on them to be in the team? I'm not.

Again, reading comprehension is a problem.

You mentioned a bunch of names but have zero backing for them. Do you watch the Belgian league with EPB? No. Hes another "checks the Europe box" name. Zimmerman has international experience, is a solid enough player, good on set pieces, serviceable backup option. There is no reason to complain about his inclusion other than "he plays in MLS". Novakovich? Seriously? Hes not even a consistent starter in the 2nd division in Italy and he isn't scoring there. That's just not good enough. William's hasn't played in a year and now plays in the Cypriot league. That's not good enough. Fabian Johnson, as much as I love him, has 3 appearances to his name this season and he hasn't played particularly well in any of them. Hes not in form, not playing, and therefore it's not good enough right now.

My point if that none of this is really controversial. Everyone in there has earned the right to be in there (for the most part), and there are 3 or 4 spots up for grabs... and this is in a roster where we still have guys injured and not called in. Those 3 to 4, in my opinion of the current roster, are Roldan, Lovitz, Trapp, and Baird. I would say Zardes too... but other guys in the pool need to step up and perform for their clubs to push him out, because whether we like it or not, he has done enough to be included as a bench option.

People are complaining about guys getting excluded that aren't worthy of debate at this time. And more times then not, yourself included, people toss out names of random people in Europe they know nothing about or don't even watch and claim they should be called in for no reason other than they play in Europe and not MLS.

The reality is what I stated... spots 1-16 on the roster are realistically occupied, especially considering when Weah, Jozy and Adam's get back. Spots 21-23 are for goalies. Spots 17-20 are what people are truly complaining about, and when they bring up names, there is generally no basis for their inclusion other than the simple argument that the guy plays in Europe.

Holmes has an argument. Robinson has an argument. Green could have an argument. That has all been established. You think there are other guys who should get a look? Ok, who are they, what's the objective basis for them to get a look over another guy, and who are they taking out of the current team? Guaranteed, there are about 4 guys in the current roster, who I named, whom one could find compelling objectice arguments to be excluded in favor of someone else... as I have said.


1. Serious question: did you play club soccer or at any level past high school?

2. your reading comprehension sucks. I didn't mention Sabi go read it again before you start typing away.

3. Get off your high horse-you are not a soccer genius, your way of thinking in part is what is the problem with US soccer-people who believe thier way is the best, the status quo is good enough-get out of here with the crap-Im tired of hearing you say state your case-

4. You have no idea of soccer I watch or do not watch-do not attribute a fact to me that you have no clue if it is true. What I will say is NO I have not watched Danny Wiliams lately, I have caught some of EPB games certainly not all, nor I have even watch Fabian, but what I do know without a shadow of doubt is that they in thier current form whatever that is, is better than the mls guys being called up in front of them-ZERO chance Roldon/Trapp/Yeuil/ are better than Williams--ZERO chance Lovitz is better than Fabian, re Zimmerman-your assessment is somewhat accurate-he is serviceable-how do you know that? well b.c he has played-we know what he brings, he has hit his ceiling he will not get better. We do not know about EPB for ext times in the limited time he was up he looked good. Is he better on this level who knows-but what I do know is Cuba sucks and it makes sense to try new guys out at this level to see if they are better.

5. Your reading comprehension sucks again, out of the 13 names I gave-I believe 5 were mls guys, 1 mexican league, and the remaining were euro guys.

6. Since you demand it from everyone on the boards. Explain what: OG, Roldon, Bardes, Lovitz, Baird, Bradley, Trapp, have done on the INT level that merits their continued call ups-not talking clubs and I want examples from last 24 months-
6a. I rate Lima, and I am ok with giving Lewis a chance-but please tell me what they did at the club level that merited a call up

6b. Let stay within mls: was has Roldon shown you that merits he is better than Pomk ?

7. But if we were talking stats and club soccer: Why are you not calling for Wondo?

8. Simply put guys can play fine at club and not on INT level-your logic doesn't make sense. Some guys just need a chance.

9. Lima is a good example of needing a chance dude didn't start in MLS in for my money was a good Int right back for us. Cannon is another conversation-he didn't get called up, then he was brought in due to injury and we could argue he has been a bright spot-but with your logic neither of those 2 MLS guys would have been given a chance

10. you have to learn- people do not need to think like you, I for one have watched these guys enough to see you need a shake up. Lets use american football-how about Tanninghil the QB for the Texans-by all measures he was one of the worst QB last yr, the dolphins canned him-he starts last I think 2 weeks bc the QB in front of him was playing like shit, but still had better stats than Tanninghill, but they decided to start tanning hill to shake it up, guess what they looked better and have won, he is the long term answer-well he will be given a chance, prob not, but sometime you need to try something new. We missed a WC, we played well under DS, now we have GB and you said these guys would be phased out but here they are, we have not progressed, we need something new. The irony is above you stated you liked Zimmer b.c he has INT exp, we have alot of Euro guys and Diff mls guys who could have gained exp at this level but we decided to go for the status quo-sorry that is just not good enough.
Stoked
stoked3
Ft Lauderdale, FL
Post #323
Sunday November 10, 2019 11:07pm

Joined Oct 2014
Total Posts: 344
Original post from Kamphgruppe

So only the MLS is responsible for these losses, ROFL, same old song and dance. Despite the team being at least 1/2 guys that play in Europe it is only the MLS guys who lost these games. You would have done well in Hitlers Germany! You would have had a group to blame everything on.


Get out of here with a hitler reference. you want to bag on him for his opinion thats fair game-but to bring out hitler in a response is beyond ridicuolous
Stoked
bjelks
Post #324
Sunday November 10, 2019 11:20pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,767
Original post from Lilshmike

He has no real points. His arguments are ever shifting to fit whatever it is he feels like saying, spewing nonsense til hes blue in the face.

Puts words in people's mouths, name calls to no end, makes outrageous claims on a daily basis. Hes pretty much the definition of a troll. But if these posts are serious... it's pretty sad.


The real points are you argue for guys that are proven not good enough and argue against guys you haven't seen which makes no sense.

The real points are you back Whatever Gregg says no matter the results.

The real points are you rather lose with mls players than try new players.

It's troll like to knowingly advocate for guys that have no merit to be called when you say guys with the same or better credentials aren't qualified.

I'm sorry bud, but your reasoning is illogical and you sound like tool
goalsense
Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #325
Sunday November 10, 2019 11:54pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,062
Original post from stoked3

Get out of here with a hitler reference. you want to bag on him for his opinion thats fair game-but to bring out hitler in a response is beyond ridicuolous


I didn't think so, His hate for MLS is delusional at best, you can't blame all your problems on one group. He has blamed MLS for all out losses, accused it of racism, nepotism and I could keep going. It's not beyond ridiculous, it's a point well made.

blaise213
Post #326
Monday November 11, 2019 12:34am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 3,184
Original post from Kamphgruppe

I didn't think so, His hate for MLS is delusional at best, you can't blame all your problems on one group. He has blamed MLS for all out losses, accused it of racism, nepotism and I could keep going. It's not beyond ridiculous, it's a point well made.


But the MLS players being called in are garbage

Non starting no scoring Will Trapp has been an automatic call up

Know Nothing
Post #327
Monday November 11, 2019 12:40am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,830
Original post from Kamphgruppe

I didn't think so, His hate for MLS is delusional at best, you can't blame all your problems on one group. He has blamed MLS for all out losses, accused it of racism, nepotism and I could keep going. It's not beyond ridiculous, it's a point well made.


Well then why not call him delusional or myopic? Using the reference only enflames the situation and makes it extremely personal.

Samtom23
Post #328
Monday November 11, 2019 2:22am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 459
This is definitely unrelated to football. But I am in Hong Kong now and have lived here for awhile. You know about the protests but this morning, we had the first live round and initial reports say the boy died.

It is really weird because some HK'ers HATE mainland Chinese people. Literally, had a colleague come up to me and say this last week.

In USA, a person would be crucified in the media, if any group said this. Makes me proud to be an American. Despite our occasional disagreements.

Back to football! GB sucks because he cannot evalute personal. Klinnsman elevated players but not tactics. We need a coach somewhere in the middle.

db707
Post #329
Monday November 11, 2019 3:03am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,084
Original post from Kamphgruppe

I didn't think so, His hate for MLS is delusional at best, you can't blame all your problems on one group. He has blamed MLS for all out losses, accused it of racism, nepotism and I could keep going. It's not beyond ridiculous, it's a point well made.


He's also accused many specific people on this site, myself included, of bigotry without anything to back it up, one of the lowest things you can do in an argument. That said, we should try to elevate the discourse rather than engaging at his level.

bjelks
Post #330
Monday November 11, 2019 3:17am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,767
Original post from db707

He's also accused many specific people on this site, myself included, of bigotry without anything to back it up, one of the lowest things you can do in an argument. That said, we should try to elevate the discourse rather than engaging at his level.


Being a bigot means you're intolerant of other opinions.
When you say guys who aren't full time starters in top 5 leagues: England, Germany, Spain, Italy, France don't deserve chances over guys that are reserves or avg players in a 2nd-3rd tier league (mls) which is our domestic league, you're literally embodying the definition of a bigot.
So elevate the discourse and talk about how intolerant you are and ignorant you are of the world outside of America and maybe we can make some progress.

Don't just grab your hoods and capes and have a rally, you coward clown.

This conversation works both ways bud
goalsense
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