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Know Nothing
Post #256
Thursday November 7, 2019 8:26pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,686
Original post from Lilshmike

Are you saying that Pulisic, Adams, McKennie, Weah, Sargent, Dest, Robinson, Yueill, Richards, Ledezma, Soto, etc. aren't part of Berhalters plan and that those guys having the opportunity to play in the Olympics isn't a worthwhile endeavor?


I am sure having all of these players in our squad will enhance our chances of possibly medaling. But Pulisic cut his summer break short this year to go to Chelsea to earn his spot. With the olympics coming so close to the start of the EPL season, will he want to potentially jeopardize his his playing time by participating...especially after Chelsea will have been able to buy players again over that summer. In fact, not having much of a break next summer then playing a grueling EPL schedule may not be beneficial for CP. Same could potentially be said for Dest.

Adams has had an injury and time out of the side...will he want to have to go back to RB behind others and have to fight from behind yet again for playing time?

The olympics run from July 22 through August 9th...all teams will either be in season or in training camp. Most seasonbs start mid to late August, which does not give anyone participating much of a break.

cudevil
Post #257
Thursday November 7, 2019 9:20pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 984
Original post from Lilshmike

Are you saying that Pulisic, Adams, McKennie, Weah, Sargent, Dest, Robinson, Yueill, Richards, Ledezma, Soto, etc. aren't part of Berhalters plan and that those guys having the opportunity to play in the Olympics isn't a worthwhile endeavor?


I'd be very surprised if several of those guys opted to play for the Olympic team, even though eligible.

And yes, I have questions how much GB rates a lot of those guys based on how he's selected his teams thus far.

When it comes down to it, though, getting most of those guys into the first team is FAR more important than the Olympics. There is zero point to me to boosting the age restricted teams when the full MNT is struggling so badly and WC qualifying is right around the corner. The Olympic team can come together with a couple of camps next year.

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #258
Thursday November 7, 2019 11:16pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,516
BShred at ASN stated Sabbi, Robinson and Ledezma will be with the U23s in Spain...so, GB rates them.

cudevil
Post #259
Thursday November 7, 2019 11:29pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 984
Original post from chris_thebassplayer

BShred at ASN stated Sabbi, Robinson and Ledezma will be with the U23s in Spain...so, GB rates them.


Ledezma playing up an age division, sure. Two guys that are getting first team run and playing well for their clubs getting sent to the reserves? Not so much.

Lilshmike
Post #260
Friday November 8, 2019 12:16am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,270
By a show of hands, who in the class thinks any of the forwards in the U23s would stand a chance of playing over Sargent in the senior team? How about wingers over Pulisic, or a CM over McKennie and/or Morales? What about at CB over Brooks or Long? At LB over Dest? RB over Yedlin?

No one? Bueller... Bueller...

Yeah... this is a wasted argument. There is really only one name in that U23 roster who has a legitimate claim to be in the senior team right now, and thats Antonee Robinson. Other than that, none of these names are controversial or would even get any time with the senior team if they were called in. We have better options in front of them right now.

Its important to keep them in the U23s to try and give them the best possible chance at success for qualifying for the Olympics, rather than pull them away to the senior team to sit the bench against Cuba and Canada.

Lilshmike
Post #261
Friday November 8, 2019 12:35am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,270
@cudevil

We didn't take qualification for the Olympics the last 2 cycles seriously and we failed to qualify. We did exactly as you suggested, throw the team together with a couple of camps right before the qualifying tournament, with an equal/arguably better group of players (who were able to take place in qualifying) the last two times... and we failed. Twice.

The experience gained in that tournament is invaluable for the growth of the younger players. We need to take it serious. US Soccer has also stated its a priority.

But... if we put kids who should be in the U23s in the U23s, instead of calling them to the senior team, people lose their minds. If we take the Olympics serious and try to set the U23s up in the best position to qualify, its stupid because some of those players should be called into the senior team so they can sit the bench instead. If we qualify for the Olympics, its not a big deal and we shouldn't care because none of the better youth guys will play in the Olympics anyways. If we fail to qualify for Tokyo, people will absolutely lose their minds and freak out... just as they have the last 2 times this happened.

Sorry, but this makes sense and there is no point in getting irritated over some of these guys playing with the U23s. With your assertions, there is no positive outcome whatsoever with respect to the Olympics... GGG and the USMNT is in a lose-lose no matter what.

bjelks
Post #262
Friday November 8, 2019 12:37am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,347
I would definitely like to see Richards, EPB or Robinson over Long or Ream.

I think looking at Ledezma over Roldan or Lteget is a no brainer.

And Sabbi could be an interesting option at wing over Morris.
I need to see if he can cut in and cross.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #263
Friday November 8, 2019 12:38am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,270
Original post from bjelks

I would definitely like to see Richards, EPB or Robinson over Long or Ream.

I think looking at Ledezma over Roldan or Lteget is a no brainer.

And Sabbi could be an interesting option at wing over Morris.
I need to see if he can cut in and cross.
Why don't you start by watching them play for their clubs first to see if they are even good enough to be called in instead of calling them in to see how good they are...

cudevil
Post #264
Friday November 8, 2019 12:43am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 984
Original post from Lilshmike

By a show of hands, who in the class thinks any of the forwards in the U23s would stand a chance of playing over Sargent in the senior team? How about wingers over Pulisic, or a CM over McKennie and/or Morales? What about at CB over Brooks or Long? At LB over Dest? RB over Yedlin?

No one? Bueller... Bueller...

Yeah... this is a wasted argument. There is really only one name in that U23 roster who has a legitimate claim to be in the senior team right now, and thats Antonee Robinson. Other than that, none of these names are controversial or would even get any time with the senior team if they were called in. We have better options in front of them right now.

Its important to keep them in the U23s to try and give them the best possible chance at success for qualifying for the Olympics, rather than pull them away to the senior team to sit the bench against Cuba and Canada.


Sabbi shouldn't get a look before Zardes?

Samtom23
Post #265
Friday November 8, 2019 12:47am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 108
Considering the trouble the senior team is having. Why should they sit the bench?

We have seen GB call the same players and do the same tactics. Is he magically going to get a result? At what point, do you say, we have had enough losing meaningful games? It seems like we will lose and lose.

I hear your argument but there has to be a balance between U-23, U-20s and the senior team.

And we were largely embarrassed by Canada. But there is no shake-up of the roster? It seems like much the same again.

We not Holmes, Wright, Hines-Ike, Gooch.

Sargent paired with Holmes very well. Where is Holmes?

cudevil
Post #266
Friday November 8, 2019 12:50am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 984
Original post from Lilshmike

@cudevil

We didn't take qualification for the Olympics the last 2 cycles seriously and we failed to qualify. We did exactly as you suggested, throw the team together with a couple of camps right before the qualifying tournament, with an equal/arguably better group of players (who were able to take place in qualifying) the last two times... and we failed. Twice.

The experience gained in that tournament is invaluable for the growth of the younger players. We need to take it serious. US Soccer has also stated its a priority.

But... if we put kids who should be in the U23s in the U23s, instead of calling them to the senior team, people lose their minds. If we take the Olympics serious and try to set the U23s up in the best position to qualify, its stupid because some of those players should be called into the senior team so they can sit the bench instead. If we qualify for the Olympics, its not a big deal and we shouldn't care because none of the better youth guys will play in the Olympics anyways. If we fail to qualify for Tokyo, people will absolutely lose their minds and freak out... just as they have the last 2 times this happened.

Sorry, but this makes sense and there is no point in getting irritated over some of these guys playing with the U23s. With your assertions, there is no positive outcome whatsoever with respect to the Olympics... GGG and the USMNT is in a lose-lose no matter what.


If the MNT wasn't a tire fire right now, I'd be all for focusing on the U23 team. But it's not, and not having guys that could legitimately be in consideration for the senior team in the senior camp-i.e. Sabbi, Cappis, Robinson, CCV, etc.-is dumb.

And sure, there are "positive outcomes" from qualifying for the Olympics, but they're basically a friendly to me. The entire focus needs to be on getting our ducks in a row for WC qualifying, because on this current trajectory, we're going to miss out on '22 also, which is infinitely worse than not qualifying for the Olympics. And I don't think the Olympics will matter a whit in terms of WC qualifying prep. If they did, why aren't Pulisic, McKennie, etc. playing with the U23's right now?

bjelks
Post #267
Friday November 8, 2019 3:26am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,347
Original post from Lilshmike

Why don't you start by watching them play for their clubs first to see if they are even good enough to be called in instead of calling them in to see how good they are...


Im calling them to see if they're better in a US shirt than their mls vet counterparts.
We've already identified that the bar is very low.
I've seen enough from all of them to merit a call up.
I'm still trying to figure out what most of the team has done to merit a call up in the same vein
goalsense
Samtom23
Post #268
Friday November 8, 2019 3:43am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 108
We know there is a problem with USMNT talent wise. It is time to try new players and see if they can play into GB's system.

What is rated higher, the national team or the U-23s?

And if you pull players from the U-23 that are ready, more players will fill the gap that is created.

You pull Aaronson or Ledezema for example and two more players get a chance. It is competition. I think they are playing it safe.

And has GB indicated in a press conference this is what he is doing?

Know Nothing
Post #269
Friday November 8, 2019 12:53pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,686
Original post from Lilshmike

By a show of hands, who in the class thinks any of the forwards in the U23s would stand a chance of playing over Sargent in the senior team? How about wingers over Pulisic, or a CM over McKennie and/or Morales? What about at CB over Brooks or Long? At LB over Dest? RB over Yedlin?

No one? Bueller... Bueller...

Yeah... this is a wasted argument. There is really only one name in that U23 roster who has a legitimate claim to be in the senior team right now, and thats Antonee Robinson. Other than that, none of these names are controversial or would even get any time with the senior team if they were called in. We have better options in front of them right now.

Its important to keep them in the U23s to try and give them the best possible chance at success for qualifying for the Olympics, rather than pull them away to the senior team to sit the bench against Cuba and Canada.


Yes, in the current situation they should be with the U 23's. The olympics is yet another opportunity to garner international experience.

I will treat your question as open ended for any point in the year instead of the unique situation we have now. You have cleverly based your question on players in the starting 11. Let's expand this to players 12-18. If, instead, you ask the question who would you rather have to come on and try to impact the match as a substitute, I believe the results would be different.

Lilshmike
Post #270
Friday November 8, 2019 4:40pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,270
Original post from cudevil

Sabbi shouldn't get a look before Zardes?
Sabbi has worse numbers and stats in a lower league than MLS.

Sorry, but as much as I dislike Zardes, Sabbi shouldn't get a look in front of him...

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