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Lilshmike
Post #106
Thursday October 10, 2019 1:03am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,224
And talking about the system...

How many people actually comprehend how difficult it is to manage a national team? Think about it... you only get about 2 weeks with the team every few months to actually train, play, and implement something. Not only that, but you're not working with the same cast of characters every time, so there can be a revolving door with respect to positions/roles resulting in a lack of continuity. Its not like a club team where you get the chance to work with the same players every day, having 40+ games a year to build a team and establish a system.

If you want to try something out... you don't have many chances to do so. And if you don't have the personnel that the system was designed for... well then your plan is shot.

As annoying as it is that we haven't been getting the results we would expect, I respect GGG for at least sticking to his guns and trying to build our team into something else. Trying to at least build a style. What was the American style before? Kick and run? Thats legitimately all it was... sit back, defend like hell, and kick it long to the big guy up top. Even when Klinsmann took charge he preached that we were going to take it to teams and not play that style... but when it came down to the WC, his entire plan was built around countering and earning free kicks around the box and in dangerous areas. It wasn't about possession or breaking down teams to move the ball into dangerous areas to score... it was legitimately about fast counters and drawing fouls.

I'm not saying that Berhalter has done nothing wrong or that we should go along with everything he does. Some of his inclusions are head scratching. He seems to have some favorites. But that happens with every coach. Bornstein? Ricardo Clark? Connor Casey? Beckerman? Gonzalez (with Arena 2.0)? Wondolowski? Berhlater is no outlier... all of our previous coaches have done this.

Its not that US Soccer lacks a direction, or that the powers that be at the top are keeping the system down... what it genuinely comes down to is that at this point in time, we lack the depth and quality to compete at the level that most fans expect. Point blank. Again... like in my previous post, outside of the top like 7 to 9 field players we have, the quality drops off. And there hasn't been a single window where all of our best players have been available. And to copy db707, its not like trading out Mediocre Player A (who plays in MLS) with Mediocre Player B (who plays in the 2nd division in Europe or is on a reserve/youth team) is really going to change that.

Some of the frustration is totally justified... but some things have to be put in context...

Lilshmike
Post #107
Thursday October 10, 2019 1:08am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,224
Original post from bjelks

We can just agree to disagree. I won't agree that these mls options are even mediocre or that the "fringe" euro or South American guys until I actually see them get an opportunity.
I'll err on the side that the mls guys are terrible barring a few exceptions and mediocre would be a step up
And by see them get an opportunity, you mean actually watch them play for the first time...

You've openly admitted before to having never watched some of these players.

bjelks
Post #108
Thursday October 10, 2019 2:22am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,291
Original post from Lilshmike

And by see them get an opportunity, you mean actually watch them play for the first time...

You've openly admitted before to having never watched some of these players.


No I mean see them get the same opportunity in a natl team game to see if they can perform better than what we have.

I've seen anybody I've called for play. Have you seen the guys that you don't want us to call play for the national team?

That's the real question
goalsense
hamsamwich
Post #109
Thursday October 10, 2019 3:19am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,176
To put things in context, "people like GGG" or Gregg himself? Because Gregg has the job because of his brother. There was no search. No candidates were interviewed.

I actually watch the MLS. Tripp has been garbage and actually Wondo (?) is the top American yet again. I actually am fine with Zardes at least he has international athleticism.

My critique has been similar all along. It's too complicated and there's not enough time.

And to say a lack of direction I recall when Tyler Adams was to be played out wide for Trapo and/or Bradley. If that's what he's sticking to his guns about it's more stupidity.

navi8132
New York
Post #110
Thursday October 10, 2019 7:45am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3,107
Greg Berhalter on who could succeed Bradley at the 6:

"You look at a guy like Trapp who has the passing range or Yueill who's young and played well vs Uruguay. Look at Tyler Adams: Can he interpret it in a different way and still be effective? Haven't had him in camp long enough to see that."

Tyler Adams is twice the DM that Trapp and Yueill are. This is our coach? This is the expert talent assessment we paid big bucks for?

hamsamwich
Post #111
Thursday October 10, 2019 2:06pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,176
He said that yesterday. Thank you @navi for that quote.
Yueill should be called in sure why not. But he makes Trapp redundant we don't need all those guys to just stand there.
Good for Gregg he's come up with a complicated solution that nobody understands, must make him feel super smart. Later he can say the players were too slow to get it, it's not Greggs fault.
Check out Yedlins quotes from the same day.... it does seem the players are trying to build a bridge with gregg but they have no input.

bjelks
Post #112
Thursday October 10, 2019 3:07pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,291
Seems like a good time for a good scrum over top 23 in the pool.
My thoughts on the 23:
GK: Steffen, idc, idc

Defenders: Yedlin, Cannon, Brooks, Miazga, EPB, M Robinson, Richards, Dest, A Robinson

Midfielders: Mckennie, Adams, Holmes, Morales, Sonora, D Will, Pom

Attackers: Sargent, Pulisic, Weah, Ferraira, Green

Alternates:
Gall
Parks
Hyndman
Alvarado
Toye
goalsense
hamsamwich
Post #113
Thursday October 10, 2019 3:53pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,176
I'm gonna say that Tim Ream should be our starter at CB while Brooks remains out. This nonsense of playing him at LB is ridiculous. With him and a Miazga back there we have plenty of good passing out of the back. Brooks upgrades that. Tyler Adams when he returns can see a pass and patrol that area just in front of them. I get it, Adams is injured. But where's his replacement as a lone holding midfielder??? That hasn't even been tried by Berhalter instead he goes the other way. And that would be fine if the guys he chose were comparable to Adams but play a different style. Adams is an elite player at reading the game and covering ground. We can't say that Bradley or Trapp or Yueill is an elite passer and conductor of play. So why trend in that direction at all...

With different players (read Ronaldo) at Juventus, Sarri has tweaked his system. Lots of managers change their usual formation to suit their best players. We aren't seeing that here and it's a problem.

hamsamwich
Post #114
Thursday October 10, 2019 4:28pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,176
He didn't like Kellyn Acosta, sent him home. Arguably better than Trapp this year in MLS and plays multiple positions on the field and is certainly better defensively.
Joe Corona for sure played better than Trapp, has more experience.
The list is long of guys in just MLS who have deserved a look and yet he calls in the same old players time after time. I've defended Roldan a bunch but he's not an attacking midfielder or winger and certainly not our #10 if we move Pulisic out wide.
The decisions are baffling to the average fan because we are given an aloof answer and that's it. Ok. If we were doing well, that would be fine. But to not question this is silly as a supporter of the team and a us citizen. Canada is so ready for this game and the USA are miles away. Oh and we aren't really using the Cuba game to integrate anybody new so that's a missed opportunity.

Know Nothing
Post #115
Thursday October 10, 2019 5:37pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,653
Talking about the 23 and the difficulty it is coaching a national team is fine and makes for lively debate.

However, taking a more pragmatic approach, instead of a best 23, let's try and see if we can come to a consensus on the core players that need to be part of the team if we are to have success.

For me, the core group is Pulisic, Mckennie, Adams, and Steffen. That is it and these are the players we should build around. These are the players that should play every match and around whom the tactics are formed. Players we bring into the side should be able to play well with this core group as well as fit into the tactical scheme for a match.

Ideally we would have 2 solid central defenders to help create a strong spine up the middle of the field. Long is the closest we have but every one of them is replaceable right now.

In midfield Adams and Mckennie, imo, SHOULD be the central midfield pairing to continue the spine.

Sargent within the next year should join the core group and complete the top of the spine.

Though not integral to the spine, Pulisic is integral as our creative force.

Depending how he comes back from his injury, Weah should join the core group.

bjelks
Post #116
Thursday October 10, 2019 7:44pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,291
I agree with the core you mentioned and I think Gregg has enough sense to know that, I think our biggest problem is evaluating the others.

I believe the others and depth pieces for Gregg are wayyy off and don't complement the core at all.

Gregg said Holmes is not needed. I think he's a for sure starter.

I think Trapp has no place at the international level. Gregg thinks he's the 6 of the future.
He's mid 20s now, he's not getting any better
goalsense
Know Nothing
Post #117
Thursday October 10, 2019 8:25pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,653
Currently, no he isn't. I think if Trapp were to move overseas and test himself at a higher level then there is a possibility he could be our six. He isn't without skills, he just needs to elevate his speed of play and tactical awareness so as not to be caught in possession in bad spots on the field.

bjelks
Post #118
Thursday October 10, 2019 8:52pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,291
We'll just have to agree to disagree on Trapp.

I don't think he's even Championship caliber.

If he was more skilled with the ball perhaps he could be a candidate for the 10 role.

If he was more mobile, perhaps he could be a candidate for the 8 role.

Tactical awareness and speed of play would help, but athletically he's too slow, he's too weak, and not nearly quick enough to make an impact at the intl level or better than mls level.
I don't think he has the quickness of feet or coordination to even execute if he did think faster. Hey gg

He lacks so much in so many aspects of the game that there's not 1 or 2 things he could realistically improve to be a useful player for a competent to good national team.

He's a complete liability every time he takes the field for the nats and never earned a call up in the first place. USSF, the coaching staff, and fan boys on social media blindly make excuses, apologize for him, and dismiss his flaws.

Will Trapp represents everything that's wrong with The USMNT. Some entitled great good ole boy hope that's robbing opportunities from much more deserving higher potential players
goalsense
EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #119
Thursday October 10, 2019 9:39pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,134
Sargent will start over Zardes tomorrow says Berhalter

I'd go

Sargent
-Pulisic-Lletget-McKennie-Arriola-
-Bradley-
-Lima-Ream-Robinson-Yedlin-
-Steffen-

Samtom23
Post #120
Friday October 11, 2019 4:53am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 82
I would like to see Bradley for a half and then Aaronson or Yuiel for one half.

I don't know much about Aaronson so I would like to see this line-up.

Sargent

-Pulisic-LLetget-McKennie-Boyd
-Bradley than Aaronson ave Bradley's legs and see what he brings
-Yedlin-Miazgo-Robinson-Cannon
-Steffen

I still think GB is killing the future and fan base of the USMNT.

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