RECAPS
EXTRA TIME
YANKS ABROAD LOCKER ROOM
 
Lilshmike
Post #61
Thursday October 3, 2019 2:44pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,224
Original post from stoked3

lilshmike-Thanks for the name calling. You seem to be condescending to people whom you have a diff opinion than you; not to mature of ya. By the way- im voice texting...I have a real job during the day, I do not take this board as serious as you.

Re DEST-you are right I have no clue what the arrangement was. Rewatch both times he was taken out-he was pissed, cursing, shaking his head, and walking past teammates on the bench- I can draw a conclusion him coming out was not super clear to him and or if it was that is a poor reflection of him as a teammate-which is what i referenced.

It shouldn't matter if he got beat on 1 play-its called experience, if he chooses us he will certainly remember that situation. Are you suggesting with your statements that lovitz should play over him? You see how I can twist words? there is difference between a young player making a mistake and an older player who has hit their celiing and continues to make the same mistake over and over again. Let him make the mistakes now, we need him for qualifying. besides not to many players looked good in those games-but what we did see was his potential, and that starting at ajax at 18 he will most likely continue to improve moreso than lovitz (28) who has zero overseas options and has hit his celiing and has proved nothing in his appearances with the Nats other than he has no place on an Int team.

Re Bradley/Trapp-Its not about them playing together, its about the roster spot they took from other younger and or better players-we need to know if the younger guys can handle this level. We know what we have in traps and bradley. its a waste to bring them-again if your going to be critical of others be sure you understand their point.

Re Snubs-I guess we have different ideas about the player pool. I look towards qualify and then WC-and say who will be the better option then. I believe the guys I listed: EPB, Richards, Robinson have a better ceiling than Zimmerman.

you mentioned Lima (whom I like) but wasn't a regular starter in mls this season he sat the bench alot. But I don't mind him being called in b.c he has showed he can hang at this level. This is something you don't seem to rate. There are guys who will be able to play at this level and guys who can't. Some will play awesome at thier clubs and it won't translate- this season was the opposite lima didn't play outstanding for his club but he certainly played better than lovitz who plays ever mls min. I maintain you can not have 1 standard for calling in players.

You are right there will always be people who don't agree with selections-but these selections do nothing for our future. Guys like: Roldon, zardes, Baird, Trapp, lovitz, will not be able to help us in anyway in WC qualifying-maybe roldon could be a decent back up but is really questionable-so with that said i believe it is a waste to keep calling them in.
Name calling? Hahaha can you actually tag and highlight exactly in my post where I was name calling? Seems like you're suffering from bjelks syndrome, because not once did I do any name calling.

Again, you're jumping to conclusions on Dest. Yes, I watched. Yes, I too noticed that he had a sour attitude when coming off the field. However, we have no idea what that was about. Was it because he was being subbed and was pissed that Lovitz was coming on in his place (as you have implied)? It could have been because he played pretty poor tbh, and was disappointed with how he had shown. Neither of us know, so this is nothing to complain about because you're getting uptight over something that really isn't worthy of being uptight over.

No, not making any suggestions of Lovits playing over Dest. Haha I didn't even mention his name in my post. And not once did I twist any words of yours... so not sure why you're even bringing that up. It legitimately has nothing to do what anything I referenced and is kind of off topic...

With Trapp and Bradley, I was referencing the statement you made of Bradley passing 3 feet to Trapp. They play the same role and don't play on the field together... so yeah, I called you out on it because it just hasn't happened. If you want to get tight about Trapp being called in, sure I can agree with you on that. But like it or not, Bradley still deserves to be on the roster and should get called in when healthy. Like it or not, and contrary to what a lot of people want and choose to believe, we still lack better players. Thats not Bradley's fault and its not Berhalters. Other guys need to step up in the pool and give no other option to Gregg than to call them in. Right now, that is not the case.

What are you talking about with "something I don't seem to rate"? Like seriously... what are you talking about? You reference that a player plays well for their club and it doesn't translate to the national team... but did you not read my previous post before responding to yours where I specifically called out Roldan (and Lovitz)? Come on now...

And dude... talking about the selections for our future... we are in total agreement. If you read my posts, you will see that. However, where I differ is that I think you should only call in guys that are playing for their club senior teams and have earned it. Right now, a lot of guys that people complain about on this site (and others) have not fully broke into their club senior teams and established themselves as starters at a high levels (higher than MLS), and thus, have not earned it. And again, with a lot of these guys, they aren't going to be starters or big contributors this cycle for the USMNT. People are crying and splitting hairs over bench warmers. When everyone is healthy, we have maybe like 3 or 4 spots on the team that are up for grabs.

What it ultimately comes down to is - and quote me on this because it is a stance I have been consistently making over the last 18 months or so - is that we lack good enough players. People are delusional with respect to our pool. They are searching for the next savior of US Soccer and hoping we have a team filled with Pulisic-type talent... but the reality is we don't. Our team is reflective of the talent of our pool... and it needs to be better.

Putting all of that into context, there really isn't anything much we can complain about because there really aren't better options at the moment who are healthy and available. Thats a hard one to argue against...

Lilshmike
Post #62
Thursday October 3, 2019 2:53pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,224
Original post from hamsamwich

Last year Reggie Cannon would not have been able to break into the Ajax first team either but obviously that doesn't matter.
I asked last year whether Jozy or Zardes could start at Bremen over their talented attackers and the answer is no. They still wouldn't. Does anyone really believe that Lletget or Roldan would start over Bergwijn for PSV? No they wouldn't. So why is Ledezma penalized? He's better than Corey Baird but MLS dinosaur contract system didn't allow for the more talented Ledezma to stay without ending up like Durkin having to go on some weird loan to Belgium. It's infuriating you guys aren't seeing the depth of the reach of the big money people here in the USA. It's sad too.
Jozy and Zardes would be bench options at Bremen and would come in as subs or start when there are injuries/suspensions... as Sargent's role has been to this point.

Ledezma is playing in the 2nd division in Holland. That level is lower than MLS. Guys who are starting and playing against better competition, week in and week out, should be ahead of those who are not in the pecking order. You're assuming that Ledezma is better... but come on... do you really watch the 2nd division in Holland? No.

And no... a lot of us see the problems in US Soccer with respect to SUM and its other affiliates (MLS included) and how they make decisions to line their own pockets at the expense of the progress of our game domestically. That being said, its a more complex situation than just "big money is bad, the execs screw our national team so they can be rich" as you seem to imply. A lot of the issues facing our national team have nothing to do with that...

db707
Post #63
Thursday October 3, 2019 2:58pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 992
Original post from bjelks

How about we push everybody MLS players as well?
We're handing MLS vets that have peaked automatic call ups for being mediocre mls players.
That's not pushing the team to be better.
You're failing to realize that we're not an attractive program so if anyone shows Dest or Ledezma potential we should cap tie them before anyone else wants them.
If they don't turn out, then we lose nothing.
I'm googly eyed for anyone on the verge of breaking through at a big club, playing in a better league than mls, or offering quality that we don't have in a position.
All starting and playing isn't created equal. Pulisic doesn't start or play. Are you telling me he's not good enough?


I'm not defending Gregg's callups of the same guys all the time. Spots should be earned on merit based on senior team play. Going to the opposite extreme and desperately calling in any kid who shows potential to replace the regulars isn't right either.

Pulisic has broken in at senior level long ago, he's irrelevant to the discussion. His issue is about current playing time, not whether he will even be a senior team pro or not.

Samtom23
Post #64
Thursday October 3, 2019 5:04pm

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 82
https://youtu.be/e__HF3p1glI

I would've called in Ledezema. Looking at this video, it's clear he is talented. And you got to start sometime in giving youth a chance.

bjelks
Post #65
Thursday October 3, 2019 5:11pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,291
Original post from Lilshmike

Jozy and Zardes would be bench options at Bremen and would come in as subs or start when there are injuries/suspensions... as Sargent's role has been to this point.

Ledezma is playing in the 2nd division in Holland. That level is lower than MLS. Guys who are starting and playing against better competition, week in and week out, should be ahead of those who are not in the pecking order. You're assuming that Ledezma is better... but come on... do you really watch the 2nd division in Holland? No.

And no... a lot of us see the problems in US Soccer with respect to SUM and its other affiliates (MLS included) and how they make decisions to line their own pockets at the expense of the progress of our game domestically. That being said, its a more complex situation than just "big money is bad, the execs screw our national team so they can be rich" as you seem to imply. A lot of the issues facing our national team have nothing to do with that...


Jozy bottomed out of a bottom table EPL team in his prime, but he'd be a reserve on a mid table Bundesliga team now that he's washed. Let the fanboying begin lol.
Who is the last 30 yr old American mls player to transfer to a top league lol? Rhetorical
Zardes has not even had an offer from a Bundesliga team like ever and his in his late 20s lol

I think you're underestimating how bad Roldan, Arriola and Morris are if you want to throw shade at Dutch 2nd Division.
Also we assumed Dest was better than all our wing backs 3 months ago and guess what, he was by a mile lol.

The first and foremost issue with our national team has everything to do with fanboys bending over for the execs and saying Foolishness like Bradley is the best we have without even objectively evaluating him or his competition.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #66
Thursday October 3, 2019 6:29pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,291
Original post from db707

I'm not defending Gregg's callups of the same guys all the time. Spots should be earned on merit based on senior team play. Going to the opposite extreme and desperately calling in any kid who shows potential to replace the regulars isn't right either.

Pulisic has broken in at senior level long ago, he's irrelevant to the discussion. His issue is about current playing time, not whether he will even be a senior team pro or not.


If spots should be earned based on merit of senior team play, then we don't have 11 guys that have earned a spot.

If you're not calling out Gregg's callups of the same guys that have proven to not be good enough and demanding they be replaced, you are defending them.

Giving looks to potentially better players, is always right!

Dest played in a senior team pro league in Dutch 2nd division against senior teams last yr.
Ledezma starts in the same senior pro league this year.
So does Richards, he plays in a senior league against other senior pros.

It's not Right to penalize them for being on the 2nd team of some of the elite teams in the world.
It's not right to give automatic callups to camp cupcakes participants after multiple bad performances and mediocre club performances in a 2nd rate league.

We failed to qualify and win our regional tourney in the weakest region in the world.
We are DESPERATE for talent.
goalsense
hamsamwich
Post #67
Thursday October 3, 2019 6:47pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,176
So you don't see that the guys being relied on are going to continue to be called in for WC qualifying? It's not going to be a new squad. These are Berhalters guys. The problem goes really much deeper than his selections and there really is no defense for that.

db707
Post #68
Thursday October 3, 2019 6:53pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 992
@bjelks, didn't you see me calling out Berhalter for calling up Roldan over Holmes, as one example? Your argument, not for the first time and I am sure not for the last, fails on facts. I have said time and again I agree it isn't right for guys to get call-ups just because we called them up before. Where we differ is I want us to look at different senior team pros to replace them, not call in young guys just because we think they might be great someday.

The problem with your screed is the word "potentially." The guys you cite are potentially better players, but they could also turn out to be the next John Thorrington or Frank Simek, where they get close to breaking through on an elite team as a young player and just don't make it ultimately. This is not even counting the Gedion Zelalems and Marc Pelosis of the world who get injured at a crucial time in their development and it derails their careers. It's great to be excited about Ledezma and Richards and even Dest, a new first team guy. Yes, being on Jong PSV or Bayern II is more impressive than being on Red Bulls II, of course. But let their clubs decide if they are ready for prime time or not.

bjelks
Post #69
Thursday October 3, 2019 8:21pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,291
Ok @db707 who is in your 23 no matter health. I would like to turnover at least half this team.
goalsense
hamsamwich
Post #70
Thursday October 3, 2019 9:54pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,176
Red Bulls II is a decent gauge as I said before. Like Aaronson getting run with Bethlehem steel- his rise was based on minutes vs pros... my Chicago fire players only play USDA so it's not the same as USL. As far as saying I'm confident in Ledezma over Roldan is because at the same age Roldan was entering college at University of Washington. It's a different level at the same age. I don't disagree there are flameouts but just calling guys to camp like they've done with Aaronson, or Jurgen did with Morris back in the day (which I think has to this day helped him). Integrating these guys early with an eye towards WC qualifying is in my opinion the smart thing to do, rather than keep sticking with the same guys and then saying this is our group going forward. But obviously Gregg is going to do it his way. Good luck because I want USA to be good.

Samtom23
Post #71
Friday October 4, 2019 9:24am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 82
I agree with Bjelks. Ledezma shouldn't gotten a call. Look at this highlight of him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e__HF3p1glI&t...

Watch and can you say have you ever seen Trapp or Roldan make these passes, and touches? The kid is good. Also, Ledezma is a dual national as well. We could lose him to Mexico. Tata is probably perfectly well aware of him.

And if you Dest, you played in World Cup with Ledezma. This is your teammate. Playing with someone you came up with matters just ask Pulisic and Chelsea.

Berhalter needs to go, simply put. He isn't choosing the best players period. This article is pretty good. I don't see anything but starting with familiar players from GB. We deserve better. This clown doesn't have a clue.

https://soccer.nbcsports.com/2019/10/02/combi...

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #72
Monday October 7, 2019 12:54am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,134
Yedlin went 90 and Newcastle won 1-0.

My back line would be

Lima- Ream- Long- Yedlin

Sucks that Brooks can't stay healthy but I think we should be ok for these two games.

Know Nothing
Post #73
Monday October 7, 2019 5:21pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,653
Original post from Lilshmike

Jozy and Zardes would be bench options at Bremen and would come in as subs or start when there are injuries/suspensions... as Sargent's role has been to this point.

Ledezma is playing in the 2nd division in Holland. That level is lower than MLS. Guys who are starting and playing against better competition, week in and week out, should be ahead of those who are not in the pecking order. You're assuming that Ledezma is better... but come on... do you really watch the 2nd division in Holland? No.

And no... a lot of us see the problems in US Soccer with respect to SUM and its other affiliates (MLS included) and how they make decisions to line their own pockets at the expense of the progress of our game domestically. That being said, its a more complex situation than just "big money is bad, the execs screw our national team so they can be rich" as you seem to imply. A lot of the issues facing our national team have nothing to do with that...


Yawn...the tired and myopic "guys who are starting and playing against better competition, week in and week out, should be ahead of those who are not" argument.

If Ledezma is performing well and dominating, perhaps he is not in the first team because there are better players than him that are not American? He is playing at the only level available to him. At the end of the day, the national team should be about forming the best players into a team...not just the best players playing in the highest caliber leagues.

And ironically, you turn around and sensationlize the belief that Zardes and Altidore can miraculously raise their level after playing against inferior competition to be bench fodder for a Bundesliga club?

Lilshmike
Post #74
Monday October 7, 2019 8:29pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,224
Original post from Know Nothing

Yawn...the tired and myopic "guys who are starting and playing against better competition, week in and week out, should be ahead of those who are not" argument.

If Ledezma is performing well and dominating, perhaps he is not in the first team because there are better players than him that are not American? He is playing at the only level available to him. At the end of the day, the national team should be about forming the best players into a team...not just the best players playing in the highest caliber leagues.

And ironically, you turn around and sensationlize the belief that Zardes and Altidore can miraculously raise their level after playing against inferior competition to be bench fodder for a Bundesliga club?
Gregg the other day was questioned why he didn't call in Ledezma, Mendez, etc., and his answer was simple... he stated that they aren't ready for the senior game yet. He has monitored them, watched game film, etc. However, at this point in time, they are not ready.

His rationale was pretty simple... where you play matters. How much you play matters. And although these kids are promising, they just aren't there yet. And when compared to guys who are starters on some of the top teams in MLS, to guys who are just starting to break into 2nd division leagues in Europe (in Ledezma's case, the Dutch 2nd division which is below the level of MLS), the guys in MLS have the leg up. That is simple, makes sense, is extremely rational, and is exactly the standard that almost every serious national team in the world follows.

Per Berhalter, those young guys are still in the picture... but they are going to be placed in their appropriate age groups until they can make the step up on their club teams and show that they are ready for the senior game.

Its actually comical how Soto, Mendez, Ledezma, etc. flew under the radar on this site when they were selected for the U23s for this upcoming camp. Its not like they are getting snubbed... they are getting placed in their appropriate group at this point in time.

But just to establish... many of those younger guys aren't playing at the only level available to them... if they were, they would be starting for the first teams at their clubs or be consistent members of the first team bench. But they are not. Their clubs sent them down to reserves/youths/2nd division sides to continue to develop... meaning they aren't ready for the full first team yet. That really cannot be argued.

And come on now... don't even start with the Zardes and Jozy crap. If you're going to claim they couldn't make it as at least a sub on a Bundesliga side then you clearly don't follow or consistently watch either league. Case and point... Khiry Shelton. Khiry Shelton is getting Bundesliga appearances this season. Like... are you serious? He was below average in MLS and now look at him. To be frank, Shelton is worse than Zardes and always has been... and look at him. Andrew Wooten? He was banging goals in 2 Bundesliga, and now look at him... he can't even get games in MLS. Thats not some conspiracy... MLS isn't actually as bad as most are giving it credit, and foreign leagues (2nd division and lower level first division teams) aren't nearly as good as the perception that many have.

And to be clear, I am not a Zardes supporter. But if the question is if Zardes could make the bench on a Bundesliga team... then the answer is absolutely yes. Not saying he is a starter... but he could definitely at least make the bench on more than one team in the Bundesliga. As could Jozy.

Know Nothing
Post #75
Monday October 7, 2019 9:38pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,653
Yes, and this is the same Gregg who continues to call in Trapp and Bradley.

The Khiry Shelton situation seems to be more injury and numbers driven than anything else. Look at Kyle Scott being on the bench for Chelsea when they had injures/suspensions at the start of the 2018/2019 season. It is kind of telling that he only played 2 Bundelsliga 2 matches the second half of last year after signing.

"But just to establish... many of those younger guys aren't playing at the only level available to them... if they were, they would be starting for the first teams at their clubs or be consistent members of the first team bench. But they are not." True, but in my mind that is simplistic BS.

As we have seen with Pulisic, the situation you are in does not diminish your worth to a national team. I will concede Ledezma may not be the finished article, but he is stuck behind international players on teams much better than ours. Much better for Ajax to send him to the second division to get matches than to languish on the bench and get no match time. The teams train together so I am sure he gets oportunities to train with the first team. The players he is behind would be starters for us.

Page 5 of 19
« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10  Next » Last »»

With Jesse Marsch and David Wagner at the helms of teams in the top flight, YA will cover their exploits this season.
RECENT POSTS
YA Transfer Tracker
Yanks Face Relegation in England
Tale of Two Young Yanks in Europe
Wagner Nears Premier League Goal