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hamsamwich
Post #61
Saturday May 30, 2020 1:45pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,261
Sargent with his third start in a row. Bremen's midfield and defenders are not good. Josh struggles to get any chances at all. They've won and drawn the last two games maybe the team plays with confidence. Weston on the other side is in a similar position. Poor squads and so they have to do more. But not ready at club level to dominate games, either of them.

Samtom23
Post #62
Saturday May 30, 2020 7:44pm

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 286
My main point is trying to get you to think critically and objectively analyse. Gooch and Morris are very similar in age. Morris slightly older at 25 and Gooch at 24.

Gooch has made 103 first team appearance and has scored 16 goals. Morris has made 85 and made 27 goals. Based upon stats, I would say Morris is the better option.

I know you'll say LEAGUE LEAGUE LEAGUE and ignore production. So we can look at club and similar players. Where does Jordan Morris play? Seattle. Does Seattle have a precedent of producing Premier League caliber players? Seeing that we both agreed that Yedlin played at Seattle until 2015(signed Tottenheim 2014). There is a precedent. By the way, that would make Yedlin 22, past any significant development per your previous posts when I referenced Kyle Duncan but that is not my focus.

He transferred in January was loaned out made his Premier League debut on October 3, 2015. So after a very short period was Premier League ready. Can you tell me the club that he was loaned out to? Sunderland. Can you tell me, where Gooch plays? Sunderland. So looking at clubs and production, I can reasonably assume Morris would be a better pick based upon game appearances and goals.

Nothing against Gooch. I like his style, he is very gritty.

Now about Konrad and Uly. I like to believe they will surpass Morris but they haven't yet. Being at a club isn't accomplishing anything. It means actually playing on the first team.

And getting to Boyd. From observing games, he seems to not to read the game well at all. He doesn't see the trap that is coming and typically beats the first man but the second man is waiting for him and gets dispossessed. I reckon he isn't coachable either because he gets dropped by club and country because he doesn't seem to adapt.

And I wasn't arguing that Schalke isn't a bigger club. So I will completely ignore that.

And getting back to Chandler. How come he didn't try to transfer to the Premier League? It is viewed by many as arguably the top league. So I think it is safe to use your own logic and identify Chandler as mentally weak. I actually disagree but will point out your logic.

And about Morris look and appearance. What the hell are you talking about? How left field is that?

About MLS and semi-finalist. Rome wasn't built in a day and MLS is a young league. Eventually there will be one, I predict most likely from a country other than USA.

And to hang the Canada loss on Jordan Morris is a bit of a reach. There were lots wrong with the Canada loss.

bjelks
Post #63
Saturday May 30, 2020 11:20pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,616
I'm trying to get you to think critically and objectively without the bias to mls and former us call ups.

You can't compare stats between 2 guys at different club levels. That's what I keep trying to get you to think critically and objectively about. You're so butt hurt that someone doesn't agree with your over valuation of your domestic league that you're incapable of accepting that it's a 3rd tier league by world standards.

Lol you can't take 1 player out of the 100s that have played for Seattle that have played in the EPL and say that it's a development factory. Please stop it, this level of fanboying is hard to stomach.
And we all know that Yedlin was a target for Tottenham well before the age of 22. Theres not been a sniff of rumored interest for Duncan abroad. Lol just stop it.

The only players you can compare appearances and goals to are that have actually played in the EPL or the Championship or a similar level. This is Guinness World Record level reaching.
You are what happens when kids that have never been outside or kicked a ball try to talk about sport. You try to push your Make America Great Again agenda to justify your domestic biases and disregard basic and fundamental laws that govern the world game.

I'm sorry after Ully outclassed the entire mls vet squad at January camp with no 1st team mins you have no right to say Shit about first team mins.

I can say that Morris doesn't read the game well, has very low football iq, his first touch is awful, has predictable and sloppy dribbling and inaccurate crossing. How is that for an objective and critically thought out analysis?
The bottom line is Boyd is starting and playing well for Besiktas which is a clear step above anything Morris has been exposed to by world standards.

Again I call bullshit on your hate of Chandler. I'm not hear to make this a political discussion, but you seem to have a non football related agenda against Chandler that prevent you from acknowledging or understanding that he's played most of his career at a level that Morris has never proved he can play at. My logic is that players at 3rd tier level which is what Morris is playing in is similar to English league one, Bundesliga 3 or Scandanavia should not even be compared to players proven at top 5 leagues.

So to use my logic correctly, you should say that Chandler's longevity and consistency at a top 3 league in the world that consists of daily fighting for your spot and place in the league against the world's best is a testament to his tough mentality.
To make my logic crystal clear, please understand that having a tough mentality is more about challenging yourself at a top level period where there's daily pressure and competition than playing in the best league in the world.
If you Understood the game at a world standard, you would know that there's overlap between the quality of the top leagues, your boy Morris is nowhere near that standard.
If Jordan played in any top 5 league, I would respect him and you wouldn't sound like such a fanboy.

Regarding Morris' appearance and background, I keep trying to ask the question why you keep trying to understand why you feel it's even rational to try to make an argument that a player with his Club resume can even be compared to player with Timmy's resume lol.
The first thing that comes to mind his the difference in their backgrounds and appearance.

FiveThirtyEight ranked the leagues around the world at globalfootballrankings.com
MLS came in 20th. You saying it'll take time before mls puts a player in a WC semi is massive reach of desperation and a complete joke. The point is no team that's good enough to play for a WC Title will pick a player that plays in the mls and no player from a top nation that's good enough for a top league that has WC title shot, will come to mls. MLS is over a 100 yrs behind the top leagues in the world lol, but they're trying as JJ wound say. They just don't know any better.
By Global standards, top national teams and soccer minds view mls as a league that doesn't count for much scoring to Italy's manager Ventura.
Giovinco and Pirlo were 2 examples of players that went to mls and were left out of Euro and World Cup Qualifiers bc of it.

I hang losses on players that aren't supposed to be on the field in the first place and contributed nothing. Morris contributed nothing against Canada which is terrible and contributed nothing against Mexico which was a step up. I don't care about losses as long as we pick our best available players, but when half the roster are guys like Morris that again received favoritism to get here in the first place, it's easy to hang the losses on them.
goalsense
Samtom23
Post #64
Sunday May 31, 2020 7:45am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 286
Sigh, sigh, sigh...

I am actually not really tied to MLS as you claim. I look at the options available and currently he is the best option at right wing. That might change next year.

I gave a analysis and correlation between Yedlin, Morris and Gooch. It is valid, however you might disagree with it. Yedlin spent very little time in Sunderland and was Premier League ready. Gooch spent his entire career at Sunderland and hasn't made the jump to the next level. Can either of us say definitely that Morris wouldn't enjoy similar success. Who knows? But he isn't weak for making a choice you disagree with.

Also, the disparity in leagues is getting smaller and will continue to get smaller over the next few years. But you fall to recognize that for your own personal bias. You quote FivethirtyEight and you make it seem like its Newton Law of Gravity. But you can get either sports sites that say, MLS is the eighth of ten best league in the world currently. I can show you, if you like.

What I take exception to is trying to call me a racist. Because I disagree with you, I am a racist? Did you not notice Kyle Duncan is black? So for that I will give you a definition and you can draw your on conclusions from it.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/zht/%E8%A9%9E%E5%85%B8/%E8%8B%B1%E8%AA%9E/bigot

Timothy Chandler is 30 and more of fullback. And he when he went to the World Cup with Klinnsmen, if Chandler was so freaking good, How come he got exactly zero minutes? What I am saying is Chandler is a servicable pro that starts 37% of the time and unless the Bundesliga has a secret fountain of youth his window has closed.

I would take Reggie Cannon, Kyle Duncan, and Tyler Adams before I even considered Chandler. At 24 years old Chandler couldn't beat out an MLS player (Yedlin). Would makes you think he could do it at 32? And Chandler only starts 37% so that means 63% he loses his starting spot. And you want him to just walk in and have a spot? Even less for Boyd at I believe 32%.

And you say, I can't compare Boyd and Morris because Morris doesn't play at a top five club in the world, well neither does Boyd! The Super Lig ranks 11th in Europe. And then you want to talk about pro/rel and the club and pressure. So you say the pressure of relegation makes Boyd better. Can you tell me the last time Bestikas played in the lower division. I can. Never. Since its finding in 1903, Bestikas never played in the lower division. Where is the pressure?

And I am just noticing trends when it comes to MLS. An average MLS game has 2 million fans watching now. The viewership is increasing, the salaries are increasing, the players are getting better. The Bundesliga is talking about a salary cap. The gap is narrowing whether you like to admit it or not.

And I can see in 20-30 years, MLS can and most likely will produce top talent. Now not yet but MLS is producing servicible talent, at least on the defensive side of the ball.

Samtom23
Post #65
Sunday May 31, 2020 7:54am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 286
And Bjelks, I find you much like our President. Instead of talking about the issue it hand, you deflect and make the issue something, it isn't.

For Trump, it is China! And for you, it is race. I think you and Trump should have a beer, I think you two would get along great!

blaise213
Post #66
Sunday May 31, 2020 9:32am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 3,086
Original post from Samtom23

And Bjelks, I find you much like our President. Instead of talking about the issue it hand, you deflect and make the issue something, it isn't.

For Trump, it is China! And for you, it is race. I think you and Trump should have a beer, I think you two would get along great!


I love trump! Don't forget China created the Virus in the lab. Blame China for everything. China is the reason there is no soccer.

Q: What presents does a Democrat give on Christmas?

A: Whatever they've looted

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #67
Sunday May 31, 2020 11:17am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 958
Original post from Samtom23

And Bjelks, I find you much like our President. Instead of talking about the issue it hand, you deflect and make the issue something, it isn't.

For Trump, it is China! And for you, it is race. I think you and Trump should have a beer, I think you two would get along great!


He states an opinion then goes on like it's fact. Or out right refuses to address the issue at hand and goes on about something else. Interesting that he calls MLS a tier 3 league when most coaches and other professionals call it a tier 2 league. He says Morris can't read the game makes bad run etc. 4 National team coaches have made him a starter and say the opposite. I think Morris has a place as a super sub. There are some really good players moving up, but hey don't always pan out as we all know.

bjelks
Post #68
Sunday May 31, 2020 1:38pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,616
Original post from Samtom23

And Bjelks, I find you much like our President. Instead of talking about the issue it hand, you deflect and make the issue something, it isn't.

For Trump, it is China! And for you, it is race. I think you and Trump should have a beer, I think you two would get along great!


I talk about the issue every time I address you or this board and you ignore it because it does Not affect the people whose appearances and backgrounds you want to represent the national team.

I tell you the issue is ppl like you ruin the integrity of the national team because you're incapable of objectively evaluating players.

I'll speak out against your bigoted behavior and mindset every time I get a chance.

You sound like you've never kicked a ball and can't critically analyze players or levels of play without showing favoritism to ppl that have the look and background you want.

There's no fucking way you can tell me that a black, dual, foreign based player who has been our best player in 2020 should not be included bc of his age and Morris should bc he's scored against some of the worst teams in the world. That's piece of shit thinking and behavior and I'll call like I see it.

That's Trump's thought process, it's yours. You rather lose with clearly inferior players than have a team without Players with Morris' background. You make every excuse in the book to include guys with inferior resumes and skillset just because you want that representation.

Then you try to tear down people of color, that are duals, that are young, that are foreign based.
Your premise is bullshit. It's destroying our country and it must be burned down.
goalsense
Samtom23
Post #69
Sunday May 31, 2020 1:56pm

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 286
I am disappointed Blaise. I dislike Trump precisely of Hong Kong. I also dislike Senators Ted Cruz, Nancy Pelosi, Todd Halton, Marsha Blackburn, Josh Howley, Tom Cotton, the House and the Senate. We should have never legislated Hong Kong saying it as someone that lives here.

And will probably be moving in three years because the economy is crashing and the cushy government job will probably go away. But at least I have three years to prepare. But hell, I will miss my flat tax of 17%!

But it is highly ironic that we legislated HK for human rights abuses and there isn't one video showing cops killing anyone here. But the media shows what it wants you to show and the fact of matter it was terrible difficult to take out the family not because police but because protestors. And sadly, we have what is going on USA which makes us look like big effing hypocrites.

But getting back to football. Because in life few things let us escape the grind. As far as Bjelks calling me a racist I will go out of my way to take him apart. Until he grows a set a balls and apologizes. I may have to wait a long time but I have time.

Bjelks, strap up because you are going to be in for a long one. I gave context to Kleiban, I gave context to AR-15 (JJ). I can further undermine any creditability you have remaining like Boyd and Bestikas and Chandler getting beat out by an MLS player back in his prime.

I can assuredly use a search engine which you seem quite incapable of. I can argue tactics like Canada high pressing the mid-fielders not being able to beat the press. I can talk about Weston's lack of tactics but big on heart and adequate talent. Which for someone saying you are so big on tactics but complete objectively analyse. I can talk about Konrad and Uly having a high ceiling but seeing 0000.0000000 first team minutes. And you talk about competition? That's laughable.

As far as the others, apologies for hijacking the Bundesliga thread. And we might consider taking this into a more fitting thread.

Benhamin13
Washington, DC
Post #70
Sunday May 31, 2020 2:11pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 52
I find it fascinating that the knowledgeable soccer folks on this board cannot come close to an agreement on the 23. Large discrepancies in opinion. Here are my opinions for what it is worth:
This is the Bundesliga forum. Should this discussion be elsewhere?
Morris should not make the 23. Just not the quality I am looking for.
Trump is a DB (and I don't mean defensive back).

Samtom23
Post #71
Sunday May 31, 2020 2:12pm

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 286
Does it really escape your attention that Miles Robinson and Kyle Duncan are black? But happy to know you can see past colour.

bjelks
Post #72
Sunday May 31, 2020 2:13pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,616
Original post from Samtom23

Sigh, sigh, sigh...

I am actually not really tied to MLS as you claim. I look at the options available and currently he is the best option at right wing. That might change next year.

I gave a analysis and correlation between Yedlin, Morris and Gooch. It is valid, however you might disagree with it. Yedlin spent very little time in Sunderland and was Premier League ready. Gooch spent his entire career at Sunderland and hasn't made the jump to the next level. Can either of us say definitely that Morris wouldn't enjoy similar success. Who knows? But he isn't weak for making a choice you disagree with.

Also, the disparity in leagues is getting smaller and will continue to get smaller over the next few years. But you fall to recognize that for your own personal bias. You quote FivethirtyEight and you make it seem like its Newton Law of Gravity. But you can get either sports sites that say, MLS is the eighth of ten best league in the world currently. I can show you, if you like.

What I take exception to is trying to call me a racist. Because I disagree with you, I am a racist? Did you not notice Kyle Duncan is black? So for that I will give you a definition and you can draw your on conclusions from it.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/zht/%E8%A9%9E%E5%85%B8/%E8%8B%B1%E8%AA%9E/bigot

Timothy Chandler is 30 and more of fullback. And he when he went to the World Cup with Klinnsmen, if Chandler was so freaking good, How come he got exactly zero minutes? What I am saying is Chandler is a servicable pro that starts 37% of the time and unless the Bundesliga has a secret fountain of youth his window has closed.

I would take Reggie Cannon, Kyle Duncan, and Tyler Adams before I even considered Chandler. At 24 years old Chandler couldn't beat out an MLS player (Yedlin). Would makes you think he could do it at 32? And Chandler only starts 37% so that means 63% he loses his starting spot. And you want him to just walk in and have a spot? Even less for Boyd at I believe 32%.

And you say, I can't compare Boyd and Morris because Morris doesn't play at a top five club in the world, well neither does Boyd! The Super Lig ranks 11th in Europe. And then you want to talk about pro/rel and the club and pressure. So you say the pressure of relegation makes Boyd better. Can you tell me the last time Bestikas played in the lower division. I can. Never. Since its finding in 1903, Bestikas never played in the lower division. Where is the pressure?

And I am just noticing trends when it comes to MLS. An average MLS game has 2 million fans watching now. The viewership is increasing, the salaries are increasing, the players are getting better. The Bundesliga is talking about a salary cap. The gap is narrowing whether you like to admit it or not.

And I can see in 20-30 years, MLS can and most likely will produce top talent. Now not yet but MLS is producing servicible talent, at least on the defensive side of the ball.


More lies. There's no correlation between Morris, Yedlin, and Gooch. All have different levels of experience and have played at different levels. Gooch has played in the EPL and Championship. Morris hasn't. And yes it is a bigoted response to say someone isn't weak just bc they chose to benefit from the privilege associated with their appearance.

You think that mls is a top 20 league in the world, what a fucking joke. Mls can't even win the CCL. MLS isn't competitive with player values, player transfers or player representation in the WC. Your hype of trump's good ole boy league is a joke.

Did you notice that the black players you support are tokens for the domestic league their oppressors own? Lol. Did you notice that the black players you support are docile and lifeless and not representative of black culture. You support black players as long as they are the type of submissive robotic black players that propagate your agenda.

It's disgustingly ignorant for you to try to compare and debate the resumes of tier 1 and tier 3 players. You can't compare mls to Bundesliga or EPL players because the levels are not comparable. Just give it up. Like I said you're making the argument of someone who doesn't understand the game and hasn't kicked a ball.

Like I've previously said, our best player in WC 14 was older than Timmy would be in 2022 so you have no fucking point with his age.

Besiktas wins or finishes top of their league every fucking year. They play in the UCL or UEL every fucking yr. They advance to the ko rounds every other yr.
They have pressure to win the title and advance to the CL or EL ko rounds every fucking yr.
Really stop it, how the fuck do you compare playing in mls to the pressure to win a title and advance to European ko rounds every yr?

Again I don't give a shit about your make America great again campaign speech for mls, in 20-30 yrs, it will still be 100 yrs behind the rest of the world bc the people that run it don't understand how the game works in the rest of the world. They are afraid of pro/ rel, they're disinterested in intercontinental play, they dont understand that the model should be a selling a league and rosters aren't deep enough to put pressure on vets. I want mls to succeed, I really do but when fanboys like you overhype it, it's hard to take it seriously.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #73
Sunday May 31, 2020 2:34pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,616
Original post from Kamphgruppe

He states an opinion then goes on like it's fact. Or out right refuses to address the issue at hand and goes on about something else. Interesting that he calls MLS a tier 3 league when most coaches and other professionals call it a tier 2 league. He says Morris can't read the game makes bad run etc. 4 National team coaches have made him a starter and say the opposite. I think Morris has a place as a super sub. There are some really good players moving up, but hey don't always pan out as we all know.


No most coaches don't call mls a 2nd tier league. Most coaches in Europe and South America consider it below Argentina, Brazil, Championship, Holland, Portugal, Turkey, Belgium, Austria, Russia.

I've provided very detailed thoughtful analysis and a reputable American website to analyze and review club level tiers. You are more than welcome to present more thoughtful analysis than your blanket propaganda statements.

I'm sorry man, if you want me to take any credibility from National team managers that were unqualified and hired as favors, I'm going to have to respectfully decline.
Sure, JK called him but JK also left off Donovan and JK didn't have the pool we have now.

If Jordan doesn't have that resume to be on the team or compete for a spot, why should we give him a default sub spot? This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say privilege.

Gooch is rumored to have a deal done with Middlesbrough in the Championship.
We know that Weah when healthy is a rotational player for Lille.
Ully is a first team member for a good Wolfsburg team who doesn't like young players.
Konrad is rumored for a move to Hertha Berlin, Nice and Monaco.
Reyna is 17 playing in the Champs League.
Boyd plays on a team that plays in the CL or EL every yr and wins titles

What does Morris have on his resume to objectively compete with guys at this level?
goalsense
bjelks
Post #74
Sunday May 31, 2020 2:56pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,616
Original post from Samtom23

I am disappointed Blaise. I dislike Trump precisely of Hong Kong. I also dislike Senators Ted Cruz, Nancy Pelosi, Todd Halton, Marsha Blackburn, Josh Howley, Tom Cotton, the House and the Senate. We should have never legislated Hong Kong saying it as someone that lives here.

And will probably be moving in three years because the economy is crashing and the cushy government job will probably go away. But at least I have three years to prepare. But hell, I will miss my flat tax of 17%!

But it is highly ironic that we legislated HK for human rights abuses and there isn't one video showing cops killing anyone here. But the media shows what it wants you to show and the fact of matter it was terrible difficult to take out the family not because police but because protestors. And sadly, we have what is going on USA which makes us look like big effing hypocrites.

But getting back to football. Because in life few things let us escape the grind. As far as Bjelks calling me a racist I will go out of my way to take him apart. Until he grows a set a balls and apologizes. I may have to wait a long time but I have time.

Bjelks, strap up because you are going to be in for a long one. I gave context to Kleiban, I gave context to AR-15 (JJ). I can further undermine any creditability you have remaining like Boyd and Bestikas and Chandler getting beat out by an MLS player back in his prime.

I can assuredly use a search engine which you seem quite incapable of. I can argue tactics like Canada high pressing the mid-fielders not being able to beat the press. I can talk about Weston's lack of tactics but big on heart and adequate talent. Which for someone saying you are so big on tactics but complete objectively analyse. I can talk about Konrad and Uly having a high ceiling but seeing 0000.0000000 first team minutes. And you talk about competition? That's laughable.

As far as the others, apologies for hijacking the Bundesliga thread. And we might consider taking this into a more fitting thread.


You can't talk about shit but lies and how much you want to hype mls.

Like I said you are a racist bc you like the type of blacks that are docile and robotic. You have bias against young players, foreign based players, dual citizens to promote players from the system with the backgrounds you like.

I'm not apologizing for calling you out for being a racist ignorant piece of shit. That's me grabbing my nuts. You fanboy.

You gave bullshit context that fits your fanboy narrative.
You can't undermine me saying Boyd playing in a more pressure environment Than Jordan when he actually does.
It's also hilariously ignorant that Chandler is playing the best football of his career and you referred to him being past his prime. I also find it funny that you think a coach that snubbed arguably our best played ever for some scrubs should have his decision to bench Chandler be applauded.
This being on a team that only made it to the RO16

Lol don't waste my time on your soccer for dummies tactical hyperbole when you can't even objectively identify the best players in the pool without mls bias.
I'll give you my thoughts on Weston: has shaky touch and decisions. Arguably our best ball winner and best engine. He needs to play with a competent 6 and 10 which he never has, there you have it tactics pal.

Again Ully was the best player in an all mls vet camp and concacaf game with no first team mins, so that should tell you what to do with them.
Man find something else to talk about. This ain't your thing pal.

Don't apologize on the thread for jacking off mls and putting down bundesliga players in a Bundesliga thread, you did what you wanted to. You passive aggressive coward.
goalsense
Samtom23
Post #75
Sunday May 31, 2020 4:19pm

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 286
Let's hit pause for the time being. And for the others, let's give Bjelks a break, let him calm down and engage in a more meaningful way.

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