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Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #46
Wednesday May 27, 2020 3:19pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 958
Original post from bjelks

Brian Kleiban has been dragging Morris, Long and Weston for an hour and a half lol.
Jordan Morris simply put has awful technique and iq and isn't useful at a high level.
Jordan has no offers out there and will never leave mls.

Our wingers should be closer to CP, Reyna, Weah, Boyd, Ully, Gooch, Konrad. Chandler can play either wing or wing back and should be automatic in the 23


And you know Morris has no offers how? I understand you have a huge anti_MSL bias but sometimes you just go right off the deep end. There is no way you know what offers Morris does, or does not have.

bjelks
Post #47
Wednesday May 27, 2020 3:45pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,616
Original post from Kamphgruppe

And you know Morris has no offers how? I understand you have a huge anti_MSL bias but sometimes you just go right off the deep end. There is no way you know what offers Morris does, or does not have.


Lol cmon, he was in rumors 5 yrs ago and there hasn't been a peep since.
But to say he has to be included bc he scored on Cuba and Canada is a joke
goalsense
EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #48
Wednesday May 27, 2020 8:42pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,258
WESTON HEADER

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #49
Wednesday May 27, 2020 8:47pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,258
https://twitter.com/si_soccer/status/12657306...

db707
Post #50
Wednesday May 27, 2020 9:07pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 1,065
And now they're behind.

Samtom23
Post #51
Thursday May 28, 2020 2:59am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 286
It depends on how Morris plays over the next couple of years. As of now, he seems to have a spot despite what Brian Kleiban says. Some of the younger players might surpass him on the depth chart, Uly, Konrad, Weah but we will see that more next year once play resumes as normal.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #52
Friday May 29, 2020 12:27am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 958
Original post from bjelks

Lol cmon, he was in rumors 5 yrs ago and there hasn't been a peep since.
But to say he has to be included bc he scored on Cuba and Canada is a joke


Who said anything about him being included because he scored on cuba and Canada? What are you talking about? You are deflecting again. My statement was that you have no idea what offers Morris has received. You don't know and you made that shit up, if you want to make a statement that there have been no rumors fine, say that.

Samtom23
Post #53
Friday May 29, 2020 3:57am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 286
Who cares if he has offers or not? If he has something to contribute, he has something to contribute. If we excluded MLS from 2014, there would be no Dempsey, Bradley and Yedlin. So if we retroactively apply the logic that. You would have to also look at the rest of the roster and determine if those players were at a top league. Julian Green was at a top league so he was/is ok. But I seem to recall him playing like 10 minutes or so.

bjelks
Post #54
Friday May 29, 2020 1:53pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,616
Original post from Kamphgruppe

Who said anything about him being included because he scored on cuba and Canada? What are you talking about? You are deflecting again. My statement was that you have no idea what offers Morris has received. You don't know and you made that shit up, if you want to make a statement that there have been no rumors fine, say that.


Someone said Morris should be included bc he puts up numbers for the nats.
That person didn't mention that he scored 4/5 goals against Cuba and Canada, which are majority semi pro to tier 3 players lol.

I never "deflected" once lol. We all know that he was in rumors for WB 5 yrs ago and we haven't heard a peep since. Deductive reasoning would tell you that his agent's phone isn't ringing.

I find it so funny that ppl blow Morris' nat performances out of proportion and get butt hurt when his abilities and level of play are questioned. It makes me wonder why ppl don't make more noise when 3 players who are the best on their teams in the Championship aren't automatic call ups.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #55
Friday May 29, 2020 2:00pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,616
Original post from Samtom23

Who cares if he has offers or not? If he has something to contribute, he has something to contribute. If we excluded MLS from 2014, there would be no Dempsey, Bradley and Yedlin. So if we retroactively apply the logic that. You would have to also look at the rest of the roster and determine if those players were at a top league. Julian Green was at a top league so he was/is ok. But I seem to recall him playing like 10 minutes or so.


I mention offers and rumors bc it's an indication of how higher leagues view a player.
Judging from the eggs Morris lays when the competition steps up or the environment gets tougher, I would say we have enough guys that have something to contribute at his position that we don't need him.

I've literally never said that we should exclude mls from the natl team.
Now I've said we should include the guys that are playing at the highest levels.
At that time, I couldn't have made an argument against Dempsey Or Bradley as they were only a yr removed from a top level and we didn't have better alternatives.

Yedlin wasn't an mls player in the WC fyi.

Now Morris has never played a minute at a higher level and he's 25, chances are he won't.
Big difference between the pedigrees of those 3 and Morris.
goalsense
Samtom23
Post #56
Friday May 29, 2020 4:34pm

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 286
But you rely on Brian Kleiban a lot for your information which is nothing wrong with that. It is just a source.

But Kleiban also says pedigree doesn't matter and it's overblown. He mentions De La Fuente as an example because he isn't aware and doesn't finish in the final third. He also states that Will Trapp would be a better option than Weston Mckennie in a possession based system like GBs. I don't agree with including Trapp at all.

But what do you feel about that? Kleiban is openly stating Trapp works better than Weston in this type of system and he completely disregards pedigree. And he mentions Ferrira is already better tactically than Sargent already but he notes they have different qualities.

I don't entirely discount pedigree but I think a player has some type of quality, then I would select irregardless of where they were. I think Kleiban is stating the same. And I won't knock Morris for choosing to stay home. It's a personal choice.

And Yedlin was still playing for Seattle at the time. He signed with Tottenheim in August of 2014.

bjelks
Post #57
Friday May 29, 2020 8:28pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,616
Not necessarily, I get "my information" from a lot of places.
I don't agree with everything Kleiban says, but for the most part I like his player and tactical analysis.

Even Kleiban, has hypocritical perspectives about his views of the game. For example, he says pedigree doesn't matter but only uses players at elite clubs as the level to aspire to.
Kleiban has never said young players should aspire to be a lifetime mls player, so you have to take his comments on Trapp and Weston with a grain of salt.

It's laughable that Kleiban or anyone would say the best players in the world play at Barca, RM, Liverpool, Juve or in their respective leagues, then say someone from a lesser club or league can be more useful than someone proven at the higher level. Literally no top country operates this way. I'll say this again and again and again until it sticks, until you see a player in a top environment you CANNOT TRUTHFULLY SAY THEIR PERCEIVED QUALITY TRANSLATES.

Correction, Yedlin was signed by Tottenham when he played in the WC. So again, he technically wasn't an mls player.

This is football. This isn't the the country club, this isn't a boy band, this isn't a youth rec league.
You should knock Morris for choosing not to challenge himself, advance his career or develop his craft. When a player like Morris takes the easy way out and stays in a lesser league and still gets picked, it ruins the integrity of the program and sends a message that the quality of your club level doesn't apply to everyone. It shows that the USSF gives bias to mls players that look like Morris and have his background.
It shows that he's soft, has a weak mentality and doesn't respond to adversity.
AND WE WILL NEVER WIN A TROPHY OR GET DEEP IN A TOURNEY WITH WEAK MINDED PLAYERS.

Yes, his choice was a personal choice, but your choices should decide your fit for national team duty like it does in every other country with aspirations to win trophies. And his choice told us that he rather have a comfortable life than growing as a footballer..

I'll leave this, if every US player had Morris' weak ass mentality, how would we graduate as a program and compete with top teams?
goalsense
Samtom23
Post #58
Saturday May 30, 2020 2:35am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 286
I completely disagree with your opinion. Choosing to stay in USA or go abroad is not a sign of weakness but your own personal perception. I think looking at Morris you can in no way say he is mentally weak. He has overcome an ACL injury and diabetes and because he didn't go overseas is no way an automatic to exclude him. I think that shows he has responded to adversity. He also won trophies at Stanford and Seattle.

If he has something to offer, ignore pedigree and choose from the best available.

And Kleiban isn't looking at the league but he is looking the players personal attributes. It is an analysis that makes sense.

Is Timothy Chandler mentally weak because he never left Germany? And while he is having a good run of form. He only starts 37% of the time. I would consider that is in part because saving his legs for the future.

And Deandre Yeldin signed with Totteheim August 13, 2014 and left for Tottenheim in January 2015. Until then he was on the books for Seattle. The World Cup of 2014 was held from 12th of June until the 13th of July.

My point is that we should look at need an fit as a team.

But as this is the Bundesliga thread. I look forward to watching Bremen and Schalke tonight.

bjelks
Post #59
Saturday May 30, 2020 12:55pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,616
Original post from Samtom23

I completely disagree with your opinion. Choosing to stay in USA or go abroad is not a sign of weakness but your own personal perception. I think looking at Morris you can in no way say he is mentally weak. He has overcome an ACL injury and diabetes and because he didn't go overseas is no way an automatic to exclude him. I think that shows he has responded to adversity. He also won trophies at Stanford and Seattle.

If he has something to offer, ignore pedigree and choose from the best available.

And Kleiban isn't looking at the league but he is looking the players personal attributes. It is an analysis that makes sense.

Is Timothy Chandler mentally weak because he never left Germany? And while he is having a good run of form. He only starts 37% of the time. I would consider that is in part because saving his legs for the future.

And Deandre Yeldin signed with Totteheim August 13, 2014 and left for Tottenheim in January 2015. Until then he was on the books for Seattle. The World Cup of 2014 was held from 12th of June until the 13th of July.

My point is that we should look at need an fit as a team.

But as this is the Bundesliga thread. I look forward to watching Bremen and Schalke tonight.


It's ok that you agree with my opinion that's based on facts of how top countries operate.
After all, it's not like you've ever won anything at a high level in this game.
I'm telling you how WC contending countries operate not just giving you my opinion.
When people think of Fifa awards and Ballon D ‘OR lists, no one ever considers mls players bc in the football world the level is far too low. And no one that votes cares about health problems, just what you've done at the highest level.
Despite his Jordan's mentality, he is a player that wants to be in a comfortable and easy environment so that makes him soft.

Look I don't know if you understand this, but when it compares to comparing Jordan to guys who are better technically, just as good physically, and have been exposed to more advanced tactics, I'm telling you clear as day, that Jordan Morris is far from the best we have available.

I'm not debating that Kleiban isn't looking at personal attributes, but back to my point, all players that he considers top top levels play for the top clubs. So it's a bit of trolling on his part to say things like Trapp over Mckennie. If you don't understand the difference between making Schalke starting lineup as a teen and Columbus, then maybe you should find another hobby.

We're talking about trying to get the pool to a place where our players are good enough to all play at top levels and you want to talk about a player that's played most of his career.
I mean that's a bullshit analogy that disregards that I keep bringing up level of play and you keep trying to make excuses for picking lesser players in lower levels.

You got me Deandre signed with Tottenham after the WC which has nothing to me with my original points. I agreed that he deserved a spot based on his ability and I don't think there was a better option in the pool. Fast forward to today, we have 2 Champions League wingers above Morris, a Championship quality winger in Gooch, another Europa league player in Boyd, a young player that's highly touted in Barcelona and on his way to either Hertha Berlin or Segunda A and Ully in the Bundesliga. All of these wingers offer more and are more accomplished than Morris to be clear.

Again I say, we have several guys that fit our winger needs and fit better than Morris.
And when I think about the GC final and the Canada loss, we NEEDED A BETTER WINGER THAN JORDAN MORRIS

I honestly think you're more concerned with having representation from ppl that have Morris' background and look than actually evaluating nerd and fit.
I want to see this program get deep into the WC.
Tell me one WC semifinalist that had an mls player on the roster
goalsense
bjelks
Post #60
Saturday May 30, 2020 1:14pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,616
Sorry, I had typos.
*Despite Jordan showing resolve to come back from injury, his mentality is still looked at as weak by world standards, bc he chose to be comfortable in an easier environment instead of challenging himself and continuing to develop his craft.

*Regarding Chandler, the analogy you made about him in the Bundesliga is bullshit, bc it's still a top league which is all we're talking about.
If mls was a top league, I wouldn't care if guys stayed, but the fact is it's a 3rd tier league by world standards. And playing at that level impairs your sharpness had higher levels.
goalsense
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