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Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #91
Friday July 19, 2019 7:50pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,404
I'm really bored at work today.

cudevil
Post #92
Friday July 19, 2019 7:50pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 920
Original post from Fraser31

You're not wrong, but making a kid who doesn't play regular football your go-to starter as a largely unproven international coach is one of those risky moves that turns heads. If it goes well he's a genius - if it doesn't he's an idiot. All I'm saying is that it makes sense why he's not getting picked just yet. In due course, if he's as good as you all believe he is, he will undeniably be our starter.


There might be some heads turned if he started Sargent over Jozy full time. I still think Jozy is the best strike right now, but I don't see him being the starter come '22-I really think that will be Sargent. Given where we are in the cycle, I see no reason not to just roll with Sargent, with Jozy as no. 2.

I don't think anyone would think twice if Sargent was immediately slotted above Zardes. Zardes just isn't international quality. He's got a great work rate, but his technical ability is lacking, as is his finishing and passing. The fact is that Sargent, to me, has already shown he is better than Zardes in his limited appearances with the senior team.

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #93
Friday July 19, 2019 7:53pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,404
Original post from cudevil

There might be some heads turned if he started Sargent over Jozy full time. I still think Jozy is the best strike right now, but I don't see him being the starter come '22-I really think that will be Sargent. Given where we are in the cycle, I see no reason not to just roll with Sargent, with Jozy as no. 2.

I don't think anyone would think twice if Sargent was immediately slotted above Zardes. Zardes just isn't international quality. He's got a great work rate, but his technical ability is lacking, as is his finishing and passing. The fact is that Sargent, to me, has already shown he is better than Zardes in his limited appearances with the senior team.


yup, this is right.

cudevil
Post #94
Friday July 19, 2019 7:53pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 920
Original post from Fraser31

Nope. First of all nothing about Jozy's MLS form suggests he's in a meaningful decline. Second, every coach the USA has ever had is an idiot if we're basing their inclusion of MLS players as a criteria for their intelligence. Third, failing to qualify doesn't kick all of the guys off the next cycle. I don't even know what you gain by suggesting that, besides a less successful team.

Also, this team is gonna look way more young and european when everyone is healthy. Bradley will be an afterthought with Adams in the midfield, Cannon is good so GTFO here with that. Dest will be in the mix if he pans out. Long is solid and in contention not only for a move to Europe but also could compete for the Brooks pairing (who's also in Europe).

LB is weird and always has been,

This team will be good, and it'll be because of both MLS and European players. More importantly, some of the most crucial players are probably MLS players for now only. Pomykal, Long, Adams was literally an MLS player last year. Cannon could and should go abroad.

I just don't really understand where your desire to burn the place some of our best players originally plied their trade in, places that cultivated some USMNT legends.


A big issue, though, is that it does not appear that Bradley will be gone when Adams is healthy-rather, Adams will play the stupid RB role because of the belief that Bradley's ability to pick out a pass is better than Adams. (And while I think Bradley is a better passer than Adams, I don't believe the gap is THAT big, particularly when you factor in the ground that Adams covers as a no. 6).

Fraser31
Charleston, South Carolina
Post #95
Friday July 19, 2019 7:55pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 1,404
We have too much RB talent for him to put Adams at RB. If Berhalter actually doubles down with Adams at RB just to make space for Bradley, I'll come on here a verbally flay myself to all of you.

cudevil
Post #96
Friday July 19, 2019 8:15pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 920
So, I'm throwing this here, even if not directly on point: reports are out that the Red Bulls rejected offers from a Prem team for Aaron Long, without even bothering to make a counter.

This is what kills be about the MLS-a huge part of its mission should be the betterment of the national team. (I've read articles, as an example, that the German national team is considered almost part of the Bundesliga, and that it's understood that the good of the national team comes first). Instead, it seems that the reverse is true-the National team is encouraged to raise the profile of the MLS.

It's a ridiculous approach. The USSF should have been able to strongly encourage NYRB to sell Long, as it's in the best interest of the USMNT. Now, I don't think MLS should be forced to simply give players away. But here, the Prem team is reported to have made multiple offers, thus suggesting they made a competitive bid, and the fact that NYRB didn't even counter, indicates they didn't even consider it. That's crap. It would undoubtedly be better for the Nats to have Long in the Prem. Give the Red Bulls another DP spot, and with the money from the sale of Long, they can be compensated (and the quality of the league won't suffer).

stoked3
Ft Lauderdale, FL
Post #97
Friday July 19, 2019 8:58pm

Joined Oct 2014
Total Posts: 289
Saying someone isn't as good b.c they are not starting is short sided. Some guys don't play bc they have really good players in front of them. Some don't play b.c of contract situations, there are dif reasons. But that doesn't mean they are not better than Zardes etc

I am the leading scorer in my over 40 league and lead my team in assists, In addition to soccer ran D1 Track and can still run allover the field. So should I put my hat in the ring for a callup b.c I start more than euro guys.

A non soccer example and I don't follow football but I did see that KC star quarterback didn't beat out Alex Smith his 1st yr. Was that b.c he wasn't better or bc the coach was scared to take a risk or bc of.....but the next yr the guy starts and is a major superstar. Tom brady only started bc the guy he couldn't beat out got hurt. these may not be normal but we can't just say they couldn't crack the starting 11 in a better league so they can't play.

Is it ideal if they are not playing 1st team no. But ask yourself if these kids were playing in MLS would they be starting. Why is is so hard for a non mls guy to get a callup? Why haven't we seen wooten, Nova, Green, EPB, holmes,i would look at Johnson or chandler, etc

Guys: Lovitz, sweat, trapp, roldon, Cory baird, Rowe, Lewis are not good enough we do not need to see them more, the fact that a younger more talent player overseas is not starting does NOT mean they are not better than the above. Those guys will always be mls starters-there is no depth in MLS

There are also guys who play better on the Int based on scheme etc Lima seems to fit that bill, he wasn't starting in MLS but played very well in GC-Lewis played well (sub appearances) when he wasn't starting in MLS

The issue with US soccer seams to be once your picked your always picked unless you play overseas. We talk about team chemistry and experience blah blah blah. Omar G please we do not need to see him anymore

What drives hard nose Nats fans crazy is it seem non mls players get dropped if they have one bad half. Why the heck was Boyd not playing? there just seems to be a double standards for callups and playing time.

We have 1 yr I think before we start qualifying, we need to try out new players, worse case we find out they are not good enough and then we can call all the same guys we always do. Best case we find 3 players that will help this team
Stoked
Lilshmike
Post #98
Friday July 19, 2019 8:58pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,167
Original post from Fraser31

Nope. First of all nothing about Jozy's MLS form suggests he's in a meaningful decline. Second, every coach the USA has ever had is an idiot if we're basing their inclusion of MLS players as a criteria for their intelligence. Third, failing to qualify doesn't kick all of the guys off the next cycle. I don't even know what you gain by suggesting that, besides a less successful team.

Also, this team is gonna look way more young and european when everyone is healthy. Bradley will be an afterthought with Adams in the midfield, Cannon is good so GTFO here with that. Dest will be in the mix if he pans out. Long is solid and in contention not only for a move to Europe but also could compete for the Brooks pairing (who's also in Europe).

LB is weird and always has been,

This team will be good, and it'll be because of both MLS and European players. More importantly, some of the most crucial players are probably MLS players for now only. Pomykal, Long, Adams was literally an MLS player last year. Cannon could and should go abroad.

I just don't really understand where your desire to burn the place some of our best players originally plied their trade in, places that cultivated some USMNT legends.
So what you're saying is, this is kind of normal with respect to new coaches and player turnover and not a huge crisis?

bjelks
Post #99
Friday July 19, 2019 9:15pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,221
Original post from Fraser31

Nope. First of all nothing about Jozy's MLS form suggests he's in a meaningful decline. Second, every coach the USA has ever had is an idiot if we're basing their inclusion of MLS players as a criteria for their intelligence. Third, failing to qualify doesn't kick all of the guys off the next cycle. I don't even know what you gain by suggesting that, besides a less successful team.

Also, this team is gonna look way more young and european when everyone is healthy. Bradley will be an afterthought with Adams in the midfield, Cannon is good so GTFO here with that. Dest will be in the mix if he pans out. Long is solid and in contention not only for a move to Europe but also could compete for the Brooks pairing (who's also in Europe).

LB is weird and always has been,

This team will be good, and it'll be because of both MLS and European players. More importantly, some of the most crucial players are probably MLS players for now only. Pomykal, Long, Adams was literally an MLS player last year. Cannon could and should go abroad.

I just don't really understand where your desire to burn the place some of our best players originally plied their trade in, places that cultivated some USMNT legends.


First, to quote Zlatan who is arguably the best mls player ever along with Henry and Ballack to play in MLS, if you're 29 (in your prime) and in MLS either you're in your decline or were never that good. Judging from Jozy missing multiple open net sitters in the GC that the women or most Bunde reserves would make in their sleep, either Jozy is in a meaningful decline from Alkamar or he was never that good. If MLS form was any indication of quality, Wondolowski would be a world class player.

Second, I'm gonna go out on a limb and call Gregg, Sarachan, Arena all idiots. And JK who I respect a lot has had a lot of idiotic moments like leaving off Landon.

Third, when I discuss failing to qualify I'm referring to Arena building his lineup and tactic around Bradley and Jozy, who were not even good enough to carry a team of mostly MLS players past a team of part time players.

Fourth, we've seen we can still fail by relying on Bradley and Jozy, how much more unsuccessful can we be playing younger players that play at higher levels like Adams, D Will, Morales for Bradley or Sarg, Wood, or Nova for Jozy/ Zardes?

I like Cannon, but he is very raw and looks much less composed going forward, less technical and less decisive than a Dest. I'd like to see him make a move to Holland, Championship, or Bundesliga and learn how to play. He's just running and kicking right now.
Long has been solid and I'd like to see him in the EPL, BUT I don't know if the defense would've been just as good with EPB, Miazga or CCV. He defended against some really bad teams. Against Venezuela, Long was terrible 1v1.

I've said before and I'll say again, I'm all for looking at MLS players under 21 like Adams, Pomykal and Cannon. Over 21, I'm very skeptical of.

Lol, I don't know where you would get I want to burn MLS, but I do wish the national program would stop recycling MLS players that have proved they don't belong. I'll also add that the only MLS player over 21 that has proved that he belongs in the past 2 yrs is Long so there's no evidence to continue calling MLS players in their mid to late 20s.
goalsense
tjknowsall
Post #100
Friday July 19, 2019 11:52pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 436
centerbacks under 24 anywhere ill look at they have longer shelf life, and peak later in their careers... a 24 year old cb or goalie is young imo

bjelks
Post #101
Friday July 19, 2019 11:59pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,221
Original post from tjknowsall

centerbacks under 24 anywhere ill look at they have longer shelf life, and peak later in their careers... a 24 year old cb or goalie is young imo


That's fair
goalsense
db707
Post #102
Saturday July 20, 2019 12:55am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 948
Original post from tjknowsall

centerbacks under 24 anywhere ill look at they have longer shelf life, and peak later in their careers... a 24 year old cb or goalie is young imo


Ironic this comment comes on Miazga's 24th birthday, not sure if you were referencing that or not.

blaise213
Post #103
Saturday July 20, 2019 8:28am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,908
I don't give a **** if it's summer friendlies but anyone starting for Borussia Dortmund should start over any MLS player on the National team.

#Reyna

Samtom23
Post #104
Saturday July 20, 2019 10:37am

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 35
I'd like to see younger players in general. So why not Reyna? Call him into camp and take a look. But I don't mind MLS or European based. I wouldn't mind seeing Trusty, McKenzie, Richards, Soto, Sergeant, Holmes, Pomykal, Nokavich , Dest and Hyndman. I forgot Hines Ike.

Make players earn their spots, build competition and depth. And I don't particularly care if starting or not for their club. There are many factors why a player may not start but they are still training.

I do think European are a little better but MLS is showing signs of catching up. And yes, I think to grow the sport some of our better players MLS should coach up and teach.

But the older MLS players, I think it time to move on. Bradley, Altidore, I recognise have some skills to offer still but realistically they will be done by 2022. It's time to give the kids a chance.

db707
Post #105
Saturday July 20, 2019 2:13pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 948
We are not calling in kids with no senior team experience in games that count. Just no. Actually, scratch that, hell no.

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