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Should U.S. Soccer bring back the U.S. Cup?
Absolutely. It would be far more competitive than the CONCACAF Nations League.
No. The international calendar is already congested.
Not sure.
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Lilshmike
Post #16
Monday August 19, 2019 2:52pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,373
Original post from Know Nothing

What crap am I talking? I do not know the thinking of the Chilean coach and I dare say you do not as well. I do not know the Chilean team or how they are stacked moving forward with the next generation of forwards. Of course you make logical assumptions, but not every manager thinks the same way.

But given all the attention given to Sargent and Weah, I dare say it would not be that difficult to turn Soto's head. He would just be employing the very same actions you yourself advocated on this site...that being if it isn't working out for you for the team you want to play for, change situations.
The crap you're talking is playing devils advocate... a "what if" scenario simply for the sake of argument.

I could toss the same thing back to you... I dare say you know what is going on in Soto's head to make it seem that it wouldn't be that difficult to jump ship. Have you had conversations with him that would make you think it would be easy for him to want to leave the program? Do you know what is going on in his mind? No. So yeah, lets cut the crap.

And I appreciate you referencing my points from previous threads. I'm extremely consistent, so my stance hasn't wavered; however, there is a difference between changing your situation at the club level vs international level. Thats not even a debate. Its not like Soto isn't getting opportunities with us. He has been... at the youth levels... where he should at this point in his career.

Again, once he starts playing and scoring/producing consistently at the senior level for his club, the situation changes. Until then, the fact remains... he isn't at the level for, or warranted through club play, a senior call-up at this time. As a result... it would make no sense for him to jump ship and file a one-time switch simply to go to a camp/friendly with another nation. He likely isn't dumb, and is fully aware of that as well.

Certainly there are exceptions, like if the manager promised something in exchange for the switch (ie. Klinsmann and Julian Green, promising him and his dad that he would bring him to the WC if he switched from Germany to the US), but considering that the WC (something that is too far away to even be in consideration for a switch yet) isn't happening soon, and there hasn't been a lack of opportunities (because he hasn't reached the level yet where that would be an issue)... this is a non-factor.

Coaches talk to players all the time. Just because Soto talked to a national team manager doesn't mean anything significant. Were there articles headlining that Gregg reached out to Tyler Boyd before he filed his switch and US Soccer was actively recruiting him to join our national team? Not that I'm really aware of. Most of the time these types of conversations fly under the radar. And for the sake of argument, if you were genuinely trying to launch a coup to snag a player from another national program... you likely wouldn't want to be advertising that to the entire world. If you did, you would risk the other nation doing everything in their power to keep the player around (if the nation still wanted that player to be part of the program).

Where there is smoke, there is typically fire. There is no real smoke that indicates he is about to leave the program... only an ESPN article that cited an anonymous source. Given the timing and context of the article... it seems more likely that it was leaked by his agent in order to stir up talk about his client as Soto is entering the final year of his contract and is able to negotiate a pre-contract in January to leave. Talk about him, put pressure on the USMNT to give him a call-up in the fall friendlies for fear of losing him otherwise, and use his status as a US senior international to help not only find another club to go to, but increase his wages and get a better contract (agents have a financial incentive for this as well).

Again... this is a non-factor at this point in time. Once he starts splaying consistently for his club and scoring goals, then the situation changes. Until then... this seems like a clickbait article. Not saying that there was no contact with Soto... only that its not a huge worry at this time.

Know Nothing
Post #17
Monday August 19, 2019 9:51pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,764
@lilshmike

You have turned this into a monologue about why he isn't ready when all I was doing was, as you point out, playing devils advocate.

If you read what I said, I never once said he was ready for us. I was just suggesting that it certainly would not be out of the realm of possibility for him to switch. Chile did not make the U-20 WC, so one could possibly assume that they certainly are looking for stronger players from that age group.

As I pointed out previously, the strikers they had at Copa America are in their late 20's. Chile has a good team, but it is aging. We have Sargent and Weah already. Looking at the numbers game it certainly would be tempting.

As far as this being clickbait, I think there is more to it. You are right, if you are looking to woo a player you usually do it quietly. But this stinks of an agent getting involved and trying to see what can come of this.

Lilshmike
Post #18
Wednesday August 21, 2019 2:51am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,373
Original post from Know Nothing

@lilshmike

You have turned this into a monologue about why he isn't ready when all I was doing was, as you point out, playing devils advocate.

If you read what I said, I never once said he was ready for us. I was just suggesting that it certainly would not be out of the realm of possibility for him to switch. Chile did not make the U-20 WC, so one could possibly assume that they certainly are looking for stronger players from that age group.

As I pointed out previously, the strikers they had at Copa America are in their late 20's. Chile has a good team, but it is aging. We have Sargent and Weah already. Looking at the numbers game it certainly would be tempting.

As far as this being clickbait, I think there is more to it. You are right, if you are looking to woo a player you usually do it quietly. But this stinks of an agent getting involved and trying to see what can come of this.
Not intending for it to be a monologue on how he isn't ready for our national team. But when you responded directly to my comment with:

"How do you know? Have you had discussions with their manager? Are you privy to their plans? Maybe he has qualities they need but do not have in any of their other options."

...after quoting in bold my sentence stating, "and if he isn't ready for our national team, then theres no way hes anywhere close to ready for Chile either"

...then following up with your own points, and verifying them in somewhat of a "gotcha" fashion by stating, "He would just be employing the very same actions you yourself advocated on this site...that being if it isn't working out for you for the team you want to play for, change situations."

...it certainly doesn't immediately come across as an innocent devils advocate scenario. My apologies if I misinterpreted it. My viewpoint still stands though... I don't think this is a big deal, and certainly not one to cause a fuss over in the US Soccer community/fanbase... at this time.

Lilshmike
Post #19
Wednesday August 21, 2019 2:59am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,373
Original post from db707

Who was the last really damaging loss we had among dual nationals? People panicked over Jonathan Gonzalez, who is mostly sitting the bench right now with Monterrey. I think the "problem" is overblown, we tend to get more guys we shouldn't get than losing valuable guys we should be keeping.
Agreed.

The only real notable losses were Jonathan Gonzalez and Neven Subotic. There really haven't been any other guys (that I can think of at least) who legitimately snubbed us. One could argue Rossi, but even he was a lost cause and was always in the Italy setup.

hamsamwich
Post #20
Wednesday August 21, 2019 12:33pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,220
Coach Rueda wants Soto for Chile and their run for the olympics, it has been said. So it's with an eye towards the future, not the here and now.

Samtom23
Post #21
Tuesday September 10, 2019 1:24pm

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 241
After watching GB run out Zardes and Trapp yet again. And be ok with losing yet again. I would think about making a switch too.

Northlander
Post #22
Monday March 2, 2020 10:09pm

Joined Jun 2014
Total Posts: 12
What is going on with him, doesn't seem like he is getting any playing time or on the bench. Last I could find of Soto playing was in a winter friendly against Bremen, and his couch ripped into his performance, "keine Chance"....

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #23
Tuesday March 3, 2020 3:08am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,517
Looks like he doesn't fit in there. I'm sure he will love. I hope he can make a good career.

Samtom23
Post #24
Tuesday March 3, 2020 1:32pm

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 241
Last time, I saw Soto was against Werder Bremen and he looked terrible. Even the announcers were critical of him.

Lilshmike
Post #25
Tuesday March 3, 2020 3:28pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,373
Anyone know if Soto is still thinking about Chile, or vise versa???

Nope... clickbait ESPN article prior to an international window with overblown reaction from US fanbase on a youth player in Europe who has yet to actually do much of anything. Can't say that I'm surprised...

Know Nothing
Post #26
Tuesday March 3, 2020 3:52pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,764
Original post from Lilshmike

Anyone know if Soto is still thinking about Chile, or vise versa???

Nope... clickbait ESPN article prior to an international window with overblown reaction from US fanbase on a youth player in Europe who has yet to actually do much of anything. Can't say that I'm surprised...


I dare say his parents know...surely that counts for something. Maybe his agent?

He had a good U-20 tournament and people saw some ability. Click-bait....probably, but the Chile story probably has some merit given his U-20 performance. Interest may have cooled down a bit but that does not mean it isn't still there.

But seriosly dude, why the vitriol towards Soto? He is trying himself in a better league...no harm in that. Some people start low and work there way up to their level, others aim high and drop down to it. There is no one way to do things.

Lilshmike
Post #27
Tuesday March 3, 2020 4:32pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,373
Original post from Know Nothing

I dare say his parents know...surely that counts for something. Maybe his agent?

He had a good U-20 tournament and people saw some ability. Click-bait....probably, but the Chile story probably has some merit given his U-20 performance. Interest may have cooled down a bit but that does not mean it isn't still there.

But seriosly dude, why the vitriol towards Soto? He is trying himself in a better league...no harm in that. Some people start low and work there way up to their level, others aim high and drop down to it. There is no one way to do things.
I'm not knocking Soto... I'm pointing out that US fans hop on the hype train and have a tendency to freak out/overreact anytime they read anything in an article, or see some highlight on twitter, without looking at the bigger picture.

Soto falls into the category of "one to look for in future cycles" not "one to look at now". We want more guys doing what he is attempting... but its a process that takes time. Results aren't immediate.

People forget that these are kids who have yet to do anything at the senior level. We need to temper our expectations and excitement until they actually make it... otherwise we just keep falling into the Freddy Adu, Mark Pelosi, Will Packwood, Gedion Zelalem, Danny Szetela, etc. trap of too much hype way too soon before the kid has even finished his development or cracked into the senior team at their club.

Northlander
Post #28
Tuesday March 3, 2020 8:06pm

Joined Jun 2014
Total Posts: 12
Soto did briefly crack the first team last season and enter a few Bundesliga matches for hardly any minutes. Same deal this season in Bundesliga 2 after 96 was relegated, but quickly dropped to the reserve team, and is not seeing the pitch there.

Obviously he has talent and the potential is seen, but something must not be seriously clicking to have fallen so far out of the first team picture....doesn't seem like he would be given the shot in the first team, to not being able to get time on the reserves if 96 still rated him as they initially did. Or am I misreading his 'development' with the club?

Lilshmike
Post #29
Tuesday March 3, 2020 8:46pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,373
Original post from Northlander

Soto did briefly crack the first team last season and enter a few Bundesliga matches for hardly any minutes. Same deal this season in Bundesliga 2 after 96 was relegated, but quickly dropped to the reserve team, and is not seeing the pitch there.

Obviously he has talent and the potential is seen, but something must not be seriously clicking to have fallen so far out of the first team picture....doesn't seem like he would be given the shot in the first team, to not being able to get time on the reserves if 96 still rated him as they initially did. Or am I misreading his 'development' with the club?
Look at my last 2 paragraphs in Post #16 at the top of this page.

His contract expires in June. He is probably already planning on leaving, so it wouldn't surprise me if they aren't interested in investing anything in him since he is on the way out the door. As a result, they send the kid to the reserves and focus on someone else with a longer-term future.

A lot of these things are logically explained if we look at the factors involved.

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #30
Friday May 15, 2020 11:37am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,232
http://www.espnfc.com/hannover-96/story/40946...

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