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Lilshmike
Post #16
Monday August 19, 2019 2:52pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,271
Original post from Know Nothing

What crap am I talking? I do not know the thinking of the Chilean coach and I dare say you do not as well. I do not know the Chilean team or how they are stacked moving forward with the next generation of forwards. Of course you make logical assumptions, but not every manager thinks the same way.

But given all the attention given to Sargent and Weah, I dare say it would not be that difficult to turn Soto's head. He would just be employing the very same actions you yourself advocated on this site...that being if it isn't working out for you for the team you want to play for, change situations.
The crap you're talking is playing devils advocate... a "what if" scenario simply for the sake of argument.

I could toss the same thing back to you... I dare say you know what is going on in Soto's head to make it seem that it wouldn't be that difficult to jump ship. Have you had conversations with him that would make you think it would be easy for him to want to leave the program? Do you know what is going on in his mind? No. So yeah, lets cut the crap.

And I appreciate you referencing my points from previous threads. I'm extremely consistent, so my stance hasn't wavered; however, there is a difference between changing your situation at the club level vs international level. Thats not even a debate. Its not like Soto isn't getting opportunities with us. He has been... at the youth levels... where he should at this point in his career.

Again, once he starts playing and scoring/producing consistently at the senior level for his club, the situation changes. Until then, the fact remains... he isn't at the level for, or warranted through club play, a senior call-up at this time. As a result... it would make no sense for him to jump ship and file a one-time switch simply to go to a camp/friendly with another nation. He likely isn't dumb, and is fully aware of that as well.

Certainly there are exceptions, like if the manager promised something in exchange for the switch (ie. Klinsmann and Julian Green, promising him and his dad that he would bring him to the WC if he switched from Germany to the US), but considering that the WC (something that is too far away to even be in consideration for a switch yet) isn't happening soon, and there hasn't been a lack of opportunities (because he hasn't reached the level yet where that would be an issue)... this is a non-factor.

Coaches talk to players all the time. Just because Soto talked to a national team manager doesn't mean anything significant. Were there articles headlining that Gregg reached out to Tyler Boyd before he filed his switch and US Soccer was actively recruiting him to join our national team? Not that I'm really aware of. Most of the time these types of conversations fly under the radar. And for the sake of argument, if you were genuinely trying to launch a coup to snag a player from another national program... you likely wouldn't want to be advertising that to the entire world. If you did, you would risk the other nation doing everything in their power to keep the player around (if the nation still wanted that player to be part of the program).

Where there is smoke, there is typically fire. There is no real smoke that indicates he is about to leave the program... only an ESPN article that cited an anonymous source. Given the timing and context of the article... it seems more likely that it was leaked by his agent in order to stir up talk about his client as Soto is entering the final year of his contract and is able to negotiate a pre-contract in January to leave. Talk about him, put pressure on the USMNT to give him a call-up in the fall friendlies for fear of losing him otherwise, and use his status as a US senior international to help not only find another club to go to, but increase his wages and get a better contract (agents have a financial incentive for this as well).

Again... this is a non-factor at this point in time. Once he starts splaying consistently for his club and scoring goals, then the situation changes. Until then... this seems like a clickbait article. Not saying that there was no contact with Soto... only that its not a huge worry at this time.

Know Nothing
Post #17
Monday August 19, 2019 9:51pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,688
@lilshmike

You have turned this into a monologue about why he isn't ready when all I was doing was, as you point out, playing devils advocate.

If you read what I said, I never once said he was ready for us. I was just suggesting that it certainly would not be out of the realm of possibility for him to switch. Chile did not make the U-20 WC, so one could possibly assume that they certainly are looking for stronger players from that age group.

As I pointed out previously, the strikers they had at Copa America are in their late 20's. Chile has a good team, but it is aging. We have Sargent and Weah already. Looking at the numbers game it certainly would be tempting.

As far as this being clickbait, I think there is more to it. You are right, if you are looking to woo a player you usually do it quietly. But this stinks of an agent getting involved and trying to see what can come of this.

Lilshmike
Post #18
Wednesday August 21, 2019 2:51am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,271
Original post from Know Nothing

@lilshmike

You have turned this into a monologue about why he isn't ready when all I was doing was, as you point out, playing devils advocate.

If you read what I said, I never once said he was ready for us. I was just suggesting that it certainly would not be out of the realm of possibility for him to switch. Chile did not make the U-20 WC, so one could possibly assume that they certainly are looking for stronger players from that age group.

As I pointed out previously, the strikers they had at Copa America are in their late 20's. Chile has a good team, but it is aging. We have Sargent and Weah already. Looking at the numbers game it certainly would be tempting.

As far as this being clickbait, I think there is more to it. You are right, if you are looking to woo a player you usually do it quietly. But this stinks of an agent getting involved and trying to see what can come of this.
Not intending for it to be a monologue on how he isn't ready for our national team. But when you responded directly to my comment with:

"How do you know? Have you had discussions with their manager? Are you privy to their plans? Maybe he has qualities they need but do not have in any of their other options."

...after quoting in bold my sentence stating, "and if he isn't ready for our national team, then theres no way hes anywhere close to ready for Chile either"

...then following up with your own points, and verifying them in somewhat of a "gotcha" fashion by stating, "He would just be employing the very same actions you yourself advocated on this site...that being if it isn't working out for you for the team you want to play for, change situations."

...it certainly doesn't immediately come across as an innocent devils advocate scenario. My apologies if I misinterpreted it. My viewpoint still stands though... I don't think this is a big deal, and certainly not one to cause a fuss over in the US Soccer community/fanbase... at this time.

Lilshmike
Post #19
Wednesday August 21, 2019 2:59am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,271
Original post from db707

Who was the last really damaging loss we had among dual nationals? People panicked over Jonathan Gonzalez, who is mostly sitting the bench right now with Monterrey. I think the "problem" is overblown, we tend to get more guys we shouldn't get than losing valuable guys we should be keeping.
Agreed.

The only real notable losses were Jonathan Gonzalez and Neven Subotic. There really haven't been any other guys (that I can think of at least) who legitimately snubbed us. One could argue Rossi, but even he was a lost cause and was always in the Italy setup.

hamsamwich
Post #20
Wednesday August 21, 2019 12:33pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,212
Coach Rueda wants Soto for Chile and their run for the olympics, it has been said. So it's with an eye towards the future, not the here and now.

Samtom23
Post #21
Tuesday September 10, 2019 1:24pm

Joined Jun 2018
Total Posts: 109
After watching GB run out Zardes and Trapp yet again. And be ok with losing yet again. I would think about making a switch too.

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