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John-Lewis
Post #1
Friday March 22, 2019 1:08pm

Joined Feb 2019
Total Posts: 59
What did you guys thin of GB's new system with Tyler Adams? Did it work? Will it work against better teams? Does it leave us too exposed?

Know Nothing
Post #2
Friday March 22, 2019 2:52pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,617
I don't like it simply because you are doing it with one player and one position. There is no symmetry to it and it is easy to get players out of position or become left side dominant in the attack.

And it leaves the guy far right isolated. Last night, the way they man marked Pulisic, it would have made more sense for Pulisic to play the wide right to either isolate him 1 v 1 or draw defenders his way to open space in the middle.

Now, if you could incorporate the LB to do the same as the RB when the ball is on the right and the RB to do DM when the ball is on the left then it may work better.

And yes, a quick ball switching play would defeat the setup rather easily.

Lilshmike
Post #3
Friday March 22, 2019 3:03pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,177
Original post from Know Nothing

I don't like it simply because you are doing it with one player and one position. There is no symmetry to it and it is easy to get players out of position or become left side dominant in the attack.

And it leaves the guy far right isolated. Last night, the way they man marked Pulisic, it would have made more sense for Pulisic to play the wide right to either isolate him 1 v 1 or draw defenders his way to open space in the middle.

Now, if you could incorporate the LB to do the same as the RB when the ball is on the right and the RB to do DM when the ball is on the left then it may work better.

And yes, a quick ball switching play would defeat the setup rather easily.
Not necessarily disagreeing about it making more sense with Pulisic out wide, but he is our best player. He should be in a position to get as many touches on the ball as possible. Theoretically, that is in the middle.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #4
Friday March 22, 2019 3:39pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,356
I think it's a work in progress. But what scares me is having a quality attacker exploiting that space that was left wide open on the right at times. I hope Berhalter doesn't become a rigid formation guy. I think a potential 4-3-3 needs to be looked at as well.

Know Nothing
Post #5
Friday March 22, 2019 4:24pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,617
Original post from Lilshmike

Not necessarily disagreeing about it making more sense with Pulisic out wide, but he is our best player. He should be in a position to get as many touches on the ball as possible. Theoretically, that is in the middle.


Yes, he is our best player and yes he should be in a position to get as many touches as possible. However, when an opponent is clearly set up so as to stop one player as they were, and that player is in the middle of the field, that just creates no space for anyone in the middle to operate.

Space was available for Zardes to score because Pulisic was off the field and they were in a more familiar setup defensively. Had we recognized how they were defending CP, him moving wide right would have opened the middle more for WM and others to exploit.

John-Lewis
Post #6
Friday March 22, 2019 4:44pm

Joined Feb 2019
Total Posts: 59
Another thing is that Adams brought an extra man towards Morris. This prevented him from dribbling past the defense, shut down his option to cross, and destroyed his overall ability to have an impact on the game. Meanwhile, Arriola was having a field day as he didn't have Adams bringing an extra man to his side.

John-Lewis
Post #7
Friday March 22, 2019 4:54pm

Joined Feb 2019
Total Posts: 59
Original post from Know Nothing

Yes, he is our best player and yes he should be in a position to get as many touches as possible. However, when an opponent is clearly set up so as to stop one player as they were, and that player is in the middle of the field, that just creates no space for anyone in the middle to operate.

Space was available for Zardes to score because Pulisic was off the field and they were in a more familiar setup defensively. Had we recognized how they were defending CP, him moving wide right would have opened the middle more for WM and others to exploit.


This is a good thought, but if you watched closely you could see Pulisic overlapping into the wide areas. I think at one point he destroyed Valencia on a 1v1 on the wing. Pulisic being in the middle isn't the problem. In fact, it gives him the freedom to go wherever he wants, whether that is the wide areas or the middle.

The real reason there wasn't anything happening in the middle is because we had too many in the middle and not enough on the outside. Tim Ream not going up and Adams shifting into the middle meant that the only wide players we had were the wingers. We had no fullbacks giving support to our wingers, and since our wingers aren't the best 1v1 players, nothing really happened

cudevil
Post #8
Friday March 22, 2019 4:58pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 929
I don't think it makes any sense in our current player pool. If you have a Pirlo, Veron, Xavi, or Iniesta type-i.e. someone that can really change a game strictly based on their passing ability, then yes...play someone in a hybrid role to protect against that player's limited mobility.

Neither Trapp or Bradley are even close to that. Trapp was "fine" last night, but he didn't do anything special and largely just took up space. Meanwhile, you take Adams, a box to box, sideline to sideline guy and limit him to half the field. Or worse, his instincts taker over, and he chases someone completely across to the left side of the field, which stretches the formation to shit. I don't even blame Adams for it. He spends long stretches of time with his club in the middle of the pitch, with freedom to move left and right as needed to put out fires. I think it will be damn near impossible for him to ignore his instincts for a week at a time a few times a year for the Nats.

There is just not way that we aren't collectively better with Adams, McKennie, and Pulisic in center of the midfield.

On top of that, the formation marginalizes one of our best players in Yedlin. Again, we aren't better with Adams at RB, Trapp/Bradley in the middle, and Yedlin on the sidelines.

With our current pool, a 4-2-3-1 would be much more effective:

Horvath/Steffen/Johnson

Yedlin/Lima JAB/Ream Miazga/Long Robinson

Adams McKennie

Morris/Arriola/Gall Pulisic Weah/FabJo

Sargent/Wood/Jozy/Nova

You could move Holmes into the CAM role and push Pulisic wide, or vice versa, as well.

cudevil
Post #9
Friday March 22, 2019 5:10pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 929
This from Adams:

"It was difficult for me, because the tendency with my club is to counterpress, and run at the ball as soon as we lose it," Adams said. "I just found myself in the middle of the field more than out wide. The natural idea for me to turn around and cover wasn't there, but I knew I had Aaron [Long] behind me, so I was a little more comfortable."

I hate the idea of him having to fight his natural urge/playing style that is being ingrained via his club, particularly when Trapp isn't offering anything that warrants it.

bjelks
Post #10
Friday March 22, 2019 5:17pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,229
Original post from cudevil

I don't think it makes any sense in our current player pool. If you have a Pirlo, Veron, Xavi, or Iniesta type-i.e. someone that can really change a game strictly based on their passing ability, then yes...play someone in a hybrid role to protect against that player's limited mobility.

Neither Trapp or Bradley are even close to that. Trapp was "fine" last night, but he didn't do anything special and largely just took up space. Meanwhile, you take Adams, a box to box, sideline to sideline guy and limit him to half the field. Or worse, his instincts taker over, and he chases someone completely across to the left side of the field, which stretches the formation to shit. I don't even blame Adams for it. He spends long stretches of time with his club in the middle of the pitch, with freedom to move left and right as needed to put out fires. I think it will be damn near impossible for him to ignore his instincts for a week at a time a few times a year for the Nats.

There is just not way that we aren't collectively better with Adams, McKennie, and Pulisic in center of the midfield.

On top of that, the formation marginalizes one of our best players in Yedlin. Again, we aren't better with Adams at RB, Trapp/Bradley in the middle, and Yedlin on the sidelines.

With our current pool, a 4-2-3-1 would be much more effective:

Horvath/Steffen/Johnson

Yedlin/Lima JAB/Ream Miazga/Long Robinson

Adams McKennie

Morris/Arriola/Gall Pulisic Weah/FabJo

Sargent/Wood/Jozy/Nova

You could move Holmes into the CAM role and push Pulisic wide, or vice versa, as well.


I agree with everything you said, but I believe Sonora has earned a shot as well. We're starved of dynamic players that have 1v1 ability as well the ability to pick through passes in the midfield and combine in the final 3rd.
goalsense
John-Lewis
Post #11
Friday March 22, 2019 5:47pm

Joined Feb 2019
Total Posts: 59
Original post from cudevil

This from Adams:

"It was difficult for me, because the tendency with my club is to counterpress, and run at the ball as soon as we lose it," Adams said. "I just found myself in the middle of the field more than out wide. The natural idea for me to turn around and cover wasn't there, but I knew I had Aaron [Long] behind me, so I was a little more comfortable."

I hate the idea of him having to fight his natural urge/playing style that is being ingrained via his club, particularly when Trapp isn't offering anything that warrants it.


I understand what you are saying and I completely agree with you that he belongs in the middle, but we have to look at it from GB's point of view. Adams played Right Back at Red Bulls New York and has played it for RB Liepzig when needed. Yedlin plays more as a Wing Back than a Full Back for Newcastle and isn't as defensively minded as Adams. To GB, Adams is the perfect player to play in his Hybrid system. I don't think the system was as innovating as GB wanted it to be and I think it hurt us more than it helped us.

cudevil
Post #12
Friday March 22, 2019 5:53pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 929
Original post from John-Lewis

I understand what you are saying and I completely agree with you that he belongs in the middle, but we have to look at it from GB's point of view. Adams played Right Back at Red Bulls New York and has played it for RB Liepzig when needed. Yedlin plays more as a Wing Back than a Full Back for Newcastle and isn't as defensively minded as Adams. To GB, Adams is the perfect player to play in his Hybrid system. I don't think the system was as innovating as GB wanted it to be and I think it hurt us more than it helped us.


It's not about whether Adams can play the position-I think he can, even if he has to re-frame his mindset for that position. But we aren't better as a team with him there, and Yedlin on the bench. I don't care that it's been one game-it should be scrapped. It doesn't put our best collective 11 on the field.

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #13
Friday March 22, 2019 11:51pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,483
Imo, his game was just about exposing the euro based players to the system.

It was a bummer Ecuador sat back and didn't want to play an open game. Imo, we didn't have an opportunity to really assess much at all. Chile will not sit back, so this next game will be much better to assess how coordinated our mids and back line play defensively under pressure. It's too bad TA went back to Europe and won't play in the game... the Chile game will be a good measuring stick...but it is still early for everybody learning GB's system...more possession will keep heat off the D...Imo, the first thing he brings up is how toxic turnovers are to his system and how quickly his defensive rotations have to be to deal with the turnovers...Long covering for RB is built into the system...also assuming Dmid fires back into the deep middle of the line to help the remaining CB and LB moving towards the middle.

I like how we look defensively under GB. It already looks pretty organized, but we haven't had a true test yet...also, I think it will look really solid once the players gain experience.

cudevil
Post #14
Saturday March 23, 2019 3:08am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 929
There is no system that can account for your right back running all the way at to the left touchline.

Know Nothing
Post #15
Saturday March 23, 2019 6:27am

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,617
Original post from John-Lewis

This is a good thought, but if you watched closely you could see Pulisic overlapping into the wide areas. I think at one point he destroyed Valencia on a 1v1 on the wing. Pulisic being in the middle isn't the problem. In fact, it gives him the freedom to go wherever he wants, whether that is the wide areas or the middle.

The real reason there wasn't anything happening in the middle is because we had too many in the middle and not enough on the outside. Tim Ream not going up and Adams shifting into the middle meant that the only wide players we had were the wingers. We had no fullbacks giving support to our wingers, and since our wingers aren't the best 1v1 players, nothing really happened


Yes, and that is the point...if Pulisic is out wide he can destroy guys 1 v 1 and the other team knows that and has to compensate. If they compensate then there is more room in the middle.

Yes, our middle was congested by our own tactics as well. However Ecuador was set up so as not to allow Pulisic to damage them. Even when others made wide runs the middle was clogged.

Irregardless we need to learn how to break down a team determined to defend. Pulisic as a #10 makes sense if we are setup to be a counter-attacking team. Otherwise playing him wide like Hazard unsettles the defense more and allows him more of the ball.


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