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cudevil
Post #31
Wednesday March 20, 2019 10:18pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 808
Original post from 2tone

Based on what evidence? Sargent is a talented young FWD. but I haven't seen evidence he is better right now.

I am huge Sargent fan as well as a huge Weah fan. But they are young and still learning. Give them time.

Some of the same people in hear said led that about Mario Rodriguez, Rubio Rubin, Jack Mcinerney, etc.... down the line of young FWDS who have gone to Europe. I think hype train needs to settle down on these guys.


Because we've seen Sargent, at least, perform better with the senior team. Zardes hasn't scored a goal for the Nats in almost 3 years, and 4 of his 6 career goals have come against Cuba, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, and Bolivia.

Lilshmike
Post #32
Wednesday March 20, 2019 10:32pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,068
Original post from 2tone

Siebatcheu cant crack the 18 for Rennes. That's what happened. Add to the fact he always turned down callups from Sarachan.

People love to forget about the players who have failed and we're considered better than what was being called up even though none of them were consistent first team players. There is a long history of talented American youth failing in not only European teams but in MLS as a well.
I wasn't serious about Siebatcheu

Lilshmike
Post #33
Wednesday March 20, 2019 10:33pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,068
Original post from cudevil

Because we've seen Sargent, at least, perform better with the senior team. Zardes hasn't scored a goal for the Nats in almost 3 years, and 4 of his 6 career goals have come against Cuba, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, and Bolivia.
If national team performance is what matters, what about Morris?

cudevil
Post #34
Wednesday March 20, 2019 11:07pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 808
Original post from Lilshmike

If national team performance is what matters, what about Morris?


What about Morris? My only concern there is that GB can't use lack of playing time as a reason not to call in other players.

hamsamwich
Post #35
Thursday March 21, 2019 1:34am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,984
@cudevil- you have to give @lilshmike credit he was right. he said Berhalter would call Zardes over Sargent and he did. Zardes never cracked a bundesliga starting lineup nor scored there ever, it's not really a comparison. Not to mention the games with the USA. But that's not the point here. I agree that the Olympic team is being prioritized somewhat at the expense of the full team but there is time for everything to iron itself out. Because that's the Berhalter plan does not equal that Zardes is ever better than Sargent. I'll go with the coaches plan but for @2tone and @lilshmike to say Sargent isn't better than Zardes is a joke.

Morris has produced I don't get all the hate for him. Bremen wanted to sign him so you can't say he doesn't have talent bigger leagues want. Zardes to my knowledge has never been rated similarly.

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #36
Thursday March 21, 2019 2:05am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,066
Sargent is way better than Zardes. Still doesn't mean he's an automatic call up. The U23 camp is working working out the kinks for qualifying and I'm glad Weah and Sargent are there. Build better rapport with players in your age range. Plus they aren't exactly getting game time. Sargent started hot then hasn't played much if at all. Once Rodgers left the new coach at Celtic has given Timmy scraps.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #37
Thursday March 21, 2019 3:05am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,178
Original post from cudevil

Because we've seen Sargent, at least, perform better with the senior team. Zardes hasn't scored a goal for the Nats in almost 3 years, and 4 of his 6 career goals have come against Cuba, St. Vincent and the Grenadines, and Bolivia.


We have? Sargent scored against Bolivia and Peru. Interesting you left out Zardes goal against Holland.

Sargent is a talented player, but Zardes is in form.

Also Zardes has played mostly at winger during his US career not striker.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #38
Thursday March 21, 2019 4:44am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 719
Original post from EKneezy

Sargent is way better than Zardes. Still doesn't mean he's an automatic call up. The U23 camp is working working out the kinks for qualifying and I'm glad Weah and Sargent are there. Build better rapport with players in your age range. Plus they aren't exactly getting game time. Sargent started hot then hasn't played much if at all. Once Rodgers left the new coach at Celtic has given Timmy scraps.


In what way is Sargent way better than Zardes? I believe Sargent if the future for the USMNT but how is he WAY better right now?

cudevil
Post #39
Thursday March 21, 2019 1:39pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 808
Original post from 2tone

We have? Sargent scored against Bolivia and Peru. Interesting you left out Zardes goal against Holland.

Sargent is a talented player, but Zardes is in form.

Also Zardes has played mostly at winger during his US career not striker.


How many chances did an "in form" Zardes miss last month? I like Zardes for his work rate, but beyond that, he doesn't bring all that much to the table. He's not young. His touch is suspect. His off ball movement is just ok. He hasn't shown himself to be a great finisher for the Nats. Maybe he's a bench guy moving forward, but I don't think he's better than Sargent right now.

Scout92
Lone Star State(Gun State)
Post #40
Thursday March 21, 2019 2:48pm

Joined Dec 2012
Total Posts: 1,417
How was Akale called up..he's already in Spain.. There's mids on this squad that haven't gotten any pt what so ever and they get called. Crazy. Would've also liked to see De la Torre as well, wasn't he just a senior player..

Lilshmike
Post #41
Thursday March 21, 2019 3:06pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,068
Original post from hamsamwich

@cudevil- you have to give @lilshmike credit he was right. he said Berhalter would call Zardes over Sargent and he did. Zardes never cracked a bundesliga starting lineup nor scored there ever, it's not really a comparison. Not to mention the games with the USA. But that's not the point here. I agree that the Olympic team is being prioritized somewhat at the expense of the full team but there is time for everything to iron itself out. Because that's the Berhalter plan does not equal that Zardes is ever better than Sargent. I'll go with the coaches plan but for @2tone and @lilshmike to say Sargent isn't better than Zardes is a joke.

Morris has produced I don't get all the hate for him. Bremen wanted to sign him so you can't say he doesn't have talent bigger leagues want. Zardes to my knowledge has never been rated similarly.
Alright now ham...

Quote me where I said Zardes is better than Sargent. Seriously... find it.

The only thing I have ever said is that Sargent is a bench warmer (he is), shouldn't be with the senior national team until he can break the first team at Bremen (something Berhalter has stated as important for player selections), and that Zardes, although I don't think he is very good, has earned the right to be called in and would be called in considering he was Berhalters main man last year at the Crew.

This is now multiple times you've done this with respect to putting words in my mouth when it comes to Sargent. Get off your high horse.

navi8132
New York
Post #42
Friday March 22, 2019 12:24am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3,050
Streams:

https://twitter.com/USMNTvideos/status/110887...

Dave
Post #43
Friday March 22, 2019 3:51am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 980
Original post from Lilshmike

So lets take all of the U23 eligible players (lots of which are bench warmers - Weah, Wright, Sargent, De La Torre, etc.) and totally neglect trying to qualify for the Olympics.

Lets take them out of a situation where they have the opportunity to play with one another and just thrown them all together at the last moment before the Olympic qualifying tournament and expect that we will be successful...

Great idea... we did that the last 2 cycles and look how that turned out. Then, in 12 months time, the conversation on this site will be "What are we doing?! We didn't qualify?! This is an embarrassment!" Exactly like last time around...

Outside of Pulisic, McKennie, and Adams, none of these guys are realistically going to be starters or impact players for us in the next 12 months. It makes sense from a coaching perspective to get them together in their own age group, see who emerges, and give them a chance at success in the Olympics. That is a tournament that gives valuable experience in a WC-like format and situation that will prepare them for 2022 when they are hopefully in the team creating an impact.

Look at the bigger picture.


1) I'm not advocating that we abandon an attempt to qualify for the Olympics. I'm advocating that we prepare the U-23 team to qualify by calling players into camp who are actually going to be part of the Qualification Tournament. There isn't a chance in Hell that Robinson, CCV, Weah or Sargent are going to be released by their clubs to participate in the Qual Tournament. If they are heavily used in these friendlies they'll be taking time/experience away from players who would be available for the Qual. Tournament.

2) Robinson, CCV, Weah, & Sargent have already proven themselves good enough to contribute to the Sr. USMNT, and as such should have been called up for the Sr. Camp in order to acclimate them to GB's system and style of play. That would give them the best chance to be able to contribute to the team during the Gold Cup.

3) If they had attended the Sr. Camp and were deemed to be below the standards of others (Ramirez, Omar, Baird) there's nothing really lost. After the Olympic Qualifying Tournament, if we qualify, there would be ample opportunity to integrate these 4 into the squad ahead of the actual Olympics to give them the experience you reference.

4) The U-23 age bracket has more raw talent in their top 30 players than those who are in the "Old Guard". If we were to pit the U-23's against the Sr. Team pool in a scrimmage I honestly believe that the U-23's would get a result.

hamsamwich
Post #44
Friday March 22, 2019 12:45pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,984
It was proven for evaluation purposes that this was the correct call by Berhalter to integrate players 2-3 at a time so there's continuity from camp to camp. But the better players are the better players I won't back away from that. The young players of today are coaches better from a young age and that's why they are better. Mentally and technically they are better than most of the 24-30 age group. And that's just the way it is. Looking forward to today's game and seeing the hunger to show the coaches they should've been with the A squad or should be next time.

Also a Julian Araujo sighting with the u23s.... nice.

Lilshmike
Post #45
Friday March 22, 2019 2:51pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,068
Original post from Dave

1) I'm not advocating that we abandon an attempt to qualify for the Olympics. I'm advocating that we prepare the U-23 team to qualify by calling players into camp who are actually going to be part of the Qualification Tournament. There isn't a chance in Hell that Robinson, CCV, Weah or Sargent are going to be released by their clubs to participate in the Qual Tournament. If they are heavily used in these friendlies they'll be taking time/experience away from players who would be available for the Qual. Tournament.

2) Robinson, CCV, Weah, & Sargent have already proven themselves good enough to contribute to the Sr. USMNT, and as such should have been called up for the Sr. Camp in order to acclimate them to GB's system and style of play. That would give them the best chance to be able to contribute to the team during the Gold Cup.

3) If they had attended the Sr. Camp and were deemed to be below the standards of others (Ramirez, Omar, Baird) there's nothing really lost. After the Olympic Qualifying Tournament, if we qualify, there would be ample opportunity to integrate these 4 into the squad ahead of the actual Olympics to give them the experience you reference.

4) The U-23 age bracket has more raw talent in their top 30 players than those who are in the "Old Guard". If we were to pit the U-23's against the Sr. Team pool in a scrimmage I honestly believe that the U-23's would get a result.
Good point about being released by their clubs... but we don't know that for sure yet. And even still, they'll be able to participate in the Olympics (assuming we qualify) so its important to integrate them while we can.

But again... most of these guys are bench warmers at their clubs. It has been stated by Berhalter himself that players need to be getting minutes in order to be considered for call ups. That is rational, makes sense, and is what every respectable coach and program around the world enforces. Until that changes with these guys, they shouldn't be with the senior team.

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