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Dave
Post #121
Thursday February 14, 2019 2:33am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 996
Original post from blaise213

New Players I'd bring into March

De la Fuente - Not going to happen
Sebastian Soto - Long Shot
Joel Sonora - I'd be OK with this, but don't see it happening
Romain Lettuce Gall - Good possibility
Wright - Long Shot
Lankford - I'd be OK with this, but don't see it happening
Mendez - Not going to happen
Llanez - Not going to happen
Folarin Balogun - Not going to happen
Sergino Dest(iny) - I'd be OK with this, but don't see it happening
Jeremey Toljan (Definitely not playing for Germany) - Would love to see but not happening

Leave all the MLS posers in MLS (expect Steffen)


We're going to see MLS Players called in. I'm guessing 10 in total (Steffen, Lima, Zimmerman, Long, Bradley, Trapp, Lletget, Arriola, Zardes, & Jozy). We're not going to see most of the players you've listed until after the 2019 Gold Cup, and even then they'll have to make some significant strides before they make into consideration.

bjelks
Post #122
Thursday February 14, 2019 5:35am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,229
I don't have a problem with seeing MLS players as long as they're good enough to be included.
@blaise is ridiculous because he's calling guys that aren't even first team players, when there are better Euro guys that are first team players.
We run into trouble when we call guys and have to play them that can't hold their own against top competition.
Zimmerman is too slow and clumsy for top level, so is Long.
Bradley is tooooo slow and we have guys that play his position in better leagues.
Trapp is big trash against top competition.
Lttetget isn't as good as Sonora or Holmes.
Arriola isn't as good as Gall or Gooch.
Zardes is terrible.
Jozy is washed. Calling either over Sarg, Weah, Wood, Nova is nepotism and bullshit.
There's no system or tactic that can compensate for massive talent gaps at the highest level and this is one of the main reasons the non fanboys don't want to spend money to support this good ole boy program.
goalsense
tylercocinas
Post #123
Thursday February 14, 2019 2:05pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,151
Original post from bjelks

I don't have a problem with seeing MLS players as long as they're good enough to be included.
@blaise is ridiculous because he's calling guys that aren't even first team players, when there are better Euro guys that are first team players.
We run into trouble when we call guys and have to play them that can't hold their own against top competition.
Zimmerman is too slow and clumsy for top level, so is Long.
Bradley is tooooo slow and we have guys that play his position in better leagues.
Trapp is big trash against top competition.
Lttetget isn't as good as Sonora or Holmes.
Arriola isn't as good as Gall or Gooch.
Zardes is terrible.
Jozy is washed. Calling either over Sarg, Weah, Wood, Nova is nepotism and bullshit.
There's no system or tactic that can compensate for massive talent gaps at the highest level and this is one of the main reasons the non fanboys don't want to spend money to support this good ole boy program.


Agree on most of this, aside from two points of contention:
1. Once healthy Jozy is still the best option (for now)
2. Lletget might be better than you think. Do you actually watch the Argentinian league? Soņora barely plays. Not saying he's good/not good, only that minutes have been hard to come by for him.
(also: Arriola and Gooch are literally the same player)

Lilshmike
Post #124
Thursday February 14, 2019 3:02pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,178
bjelks' word of the day used to be fanboy... now hes added nepotism to the mix.

Hes so smart... he knows the qualities and strengths of players hes never watched play before. Who needs to watch them though when they play in any league other than MLS? Its a foregone conclusion that they MUST be better. Just call it a hunch...

bjelks
Post #125
Thursday February 14, 2019 8:32pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,229
Original post from tylercocinas

Agree on most of this, aside from two points of contention:
1. Once healthy Jozy is still the best option (for now)
2. Lletget might be better than you think. Do you actually watch the Argentinian league? Soņora barely plays. Not saying he's good/not good, only that minutes have been hard to come by for him.
(also: Arriola and Gooch are literally the same player)


That's fair, but I have 2 questions/ comments:
1) What would you need to see from Wood, Sarg, Nova, or Weah to confirm that they're better than Jozy right now?
2) In the clips, I've seen from Sonora and full Games s a youth international he's shown technique and creativity that I've never seen from Lttetget. I just think Lttetget is very limited in getting out of pressure and picking a pass or dribbling.
Gooch has played at a higher level more recently, EPL,is bigger, stronger faster than Arriola.
goalsense
blaise213
Post #126
Thursday February 14, 2019 9:36pm

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,927
January camp needs to end. It does nothing to improve our national team.

Basically we get our C league national team players to play against d league national teams. We win both games and suddenly everyone thinks lleget, Bradley, Trapp, Roldan, Zardes are in the discussion for the A team. Everyone gets demenia on how shit these players were against real opposition.

What's gonna happen is the same old revolving door for US Soccer. You field any of those guys against a quality national team and they'll be exposed: too slow for international level, MLS soccer IQ of not knowing when to pass or shoot, back passes or long balls under pressure, not being able to finish their chances.

Only person from January camp for March should be Steffen

tylercocinas
Post #127
Thursday February 14, 2019 9:48pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,151
Original post from bjelks

That's fair, but I have 2 questions/ comments:
1) What would you need to see from Wood, Sarg, Nova, or Weah to confirm that they're better than Jozy right now?
2) In the clips, I've seen from Sonora and full Games s a youth international he's shown technique and creativity that I've never seen from Lttetget. I just think Lttetget is very limited in getting out of pressure and picking a pass or dribbling.
Gooch has played at a higher level more recently, EPL,is bigger, stronger faster than Arriola.


One thing that Juergen said that I agree with is that these guys need to push the older players out of the picture through their play on the field. I wouldn't say that Bobby has done that. Weah and Sargent are just starting to get a run of matches. Novakovich is the only striker besides Bobby who's played all year. I'm fine with whomever of them starts to be honest, and we also know that Jozy needs a partner to really be effective, so you have to take that into consideration, but have any of them shown to be "better" than Jozy? Not definitively.

I'm also not disputing that Sonora is the more creative and technically gifted between he and Lletget, but again, he hasn't been playing. At all. 300 minutes in one half season is not national team worthy. That said if he gets regular burn with Tallleres then he yea I want him on USMNT.

What does size or speed matter? Gooch is a wide chested mf'er no denying that. But is he lights out faster than Arriola? Hard to say for sure. He also last played in the EPL two years ago and he got what 13 appearances?

We all have our opinions about who's better, or who we'd like to see, but the reality is most of these guys are probably closer in level than we'd care to admit.

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #128
Friday February 15, 2019 12:17am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,486
I agree. Imo, it is between the ears and how much heart that separates the top level from the guys with comparable speed and technical ability. Guys that have the Wow 2 minute YouTube clip, but can't find the field with their club...there is a reason they can't find the field...brains and heart/will power. They can't process how quickly things need to happen on the field...a lack of awareness and ability to think fast enough to combo at tempo. It's all there to see...which starlet is a dead end and which starlet makes it easy for everyone around them to play better.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #129
Friday February 15, 2019 12:44am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,357
Horvath is playing in the Europa League and for one of the best teams in Belgium week in week out. I don't think Steffen is the undisputed #1 GK IMO. I'm just Happy to see two really talented young Keepers.

bjelks
Post #130
Friday February 15, 2019 2:57am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,229
Original post from tylercocinas

One thing that Juergen said that I agree with is that these guys need to push the older players out of the picture through their play on the field. I wouldn't say that Bobby has done that. Weah and Sargent are just starting to get a run of matches. Novakovich is the only striker besides Bobby who's played all year. I'm fine with whomever of them starts to be honest, and we also know that Jozy needs a partner to really be effective, so you have to take that into consideration, but have any of them shown to be "better" than Jozy? Not definitively.

I'm also not disputing that Sonora is the more creative and technically gifted between he and Lletget, but again, he hasn't been playing. At all. 300 minutes in one half season is not national team worthy. That said if he gets regular burn with Tallleres then he yea I want him on USMNT.

What does size or speed matter? Gooch is a wide chested mf'er no denying that. But is he lights out faster than Arriola? Hard to say for sure. He also last played in the EPL two years ago and he got what 13 appearances?

We all have our opinions about who's better, or who we'd like to see, but the reality is most of these guys are probably closer in level than we'd care to admit.


I just don't understand all how Jozy is so highly regarded considering he hasn't had a productive season at a high level in 6 yrs.

Gooch last played in EPL 2 yrs ago and gets no respect when Jozy last played there 4 yrs ago and y'all are telling me he's still our top fwd. How Sway?
goalsense
cudevil
Post #131
Friday February 15, 2019 7:31pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 934
Original post from bjelks

I just don't understand all how Jozy is so highly regarded considering he hasn't had a productive season at a high level in 6 yrs.

Gooch last played in EPL 2 yrs ago and gets no respect when Jozy last played there 4 yrs ago and y'all are telling me he's still our top fwd. How Sway?


I would put Sargent ahead of Jozy at this point.

I haven't seen anything from Wood of late. He's not scoring all that much, and he's looking at consecutive relegations. We'll see if he would get another run in the Bundesliga if Hanover goes down, and he doesn't pick up his strike rate. If Jozy is putting up numbers in the MLS, and Wood continues his fairly dry run, I'm calling in Jozy.

Re: Nova, he needs to get called in and get some run with the Nats, but to me, Jozy looks stronger/faster, and easily as skilled. Nova is younger, but I don't see someone that is currently better or that projects to be better, regardless of the quality of the respective leagues.

Even though Weah plays striker, I personally wouldn't compare him to Jozy. Sargent, Wood, Nova, and Jozy are no. 9's. Weah looks like a guy you put more underneath a 9. I'd have him in camp, of course, but I just think he's a different type of player and not directly comparable to Jozy. But having said that, Celtic as a team might be better than most MLS squads, but the SPL is not a higher quality league than the MLS. It stinks. So even if you want to compare Weah to Jozy, he's not currently producing in a better league, even if his parent club is PSG.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #132
Saturday February 16, 2019 12:03am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,357
To be honest I don't know if Wood really warrants a call up for the March friendlies. Right now I think my FWDs would be: Zardes, Nova, Sargent, and Weah. For anyone who wants to nit pick about leagues and so called competition: Zardes stats are very comparable to Woods stats with the USMNT. And Nova is literally the most in form striker as well as Weah. But who knows maybe Jozy has a good run of form or Wood has a good run of form or Morris. Should be interesting to see who gets the call.

Dave
Post #133
Saturday February 16, 2019 1:08am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 996
Regarding the striker options within the USMNT Player Pool and how to rank them, it comes down to what Berhalter is asking them to do. We don't have what I would call a complete forward....we have guys who can do different parts of the Job, but no-one who can do it all.

Jozy - Big body forward who can play with his back to goal and combine with other attackers, draws penalties, has a decent strike rate per game. Hit & Miss with his play/runs off the ball, getting in behind the defense. Not a high press striker, not good at 1 v 1. Can't create his own opportunities.
Wood - High energy and presses striker who will run ragged, able to get behind defenders. Hit & Miss with his play/runs off the ball & his hold up play. Not very good at 1 v 1.
Sargent - Too early to really tell (too small of a sample size), but has the size to be physical & draw penalties. Has shown an ability to high press, make smart runs, get in behind defenses, and combine well with others. May be the most complete striker, but needs to prove he can be consistent.
Nova - Big Body forward who appears to be a perfect example of the target forward model. Need to see if he can high press, make smart runs and create his own opportunities.
Zardes - High energy who will pressure the opposition. Will try and run down everything. Decent hold-up play, hit & miss with his play/runs off the ball. Not very good 1 v 1, nor does he have tight control to create his own opportunities or combine consistently with his teammates.
Weah - Not really a center/loan striker. More of a wide forwards or someone who plays off a Target striker. Fast, will press, has good movements, and can combine well. Needs to prove he can be a consistent threat.
Siebatcheu - haven't seen much of his play, but appears to be a slightly more mature/experienced version of Sargent.
Rubin, Dwyer & Morris nearly carbon copies of Wood, just playing at a lower level.
Sabbi, De La Fuente, Gaines, and others aren't ready yet and aren't in the picture.

Depending on who we're playing, and what we're asking our CF to do, will dictate who our best option is right now. But as Sargent and some of the others gain experience they'll hopefully provide a more well rounded striker option that we can count on regardless of the formation or opponent.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #134
Saturday February 16, 2019 3:24am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,357
I wouldn't add Siebatcheu until he accepts a call up.

Lilshmike
Post #135
Saturday February 16, 2019 4:34pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,178
@Dave

Decent analysis. I'd say Dwyer isnt exactly a carbon copy of Wood. Very similar in many aspects, yes, but Dwyer has greater agility and is left footed. Considering that there are no left footed forwards in our pool other than him, that's actually a very big thing.

Don't forget Wright. He falls into the same category as Sabbi and Sargent where there isnt a big enough sample size to tell what he brings and hes proven that he isnt ready to be included in the picture yet.

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