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stoked3
Ft Lauderdale, FL
Post #406
Thursday March 14, 2019 4:51pm

Joined Oct 2014
Total Posts: 267
Original post from 2tone

Just curious what Yanks abroad? He called in tanks abroad who are actually playing consistently with their club teams. Green? Uhm.... what player from MLS does Green bear out? Holmes is probably the only player I would have liked to have seen called in. But he wasn't. That's life. Holmes still
Needs to be consistent with his club treat.

I read the article and Berhalter did not say Fabian was to old. By 2022 Fabian will be 35.... Berhalter explicitly stated the door is open for Fabian. Fabian Johnson was the one who stepped away from the international game. Can Fabian handle being a bench player? That's the question.

Why do you have to call in Sargent, Weah, and Novo? Why? Sargent and Weah are barely establishing themselves at the club level and Novakovich is probably going to the u23 camp. Just like Sargent and Weah. It's more than likely Sargent and Weah are going to be on the u20 team. So why would Berhalter call them up when they won't be on the Gold Cup team? Ramirez and Zardes are scoring goals. So is Morris. And more than likely all 3 will be on the Gold Cup team.

Im not saying this roster is the greatest roster ever. But it doesn't suck nor does it smack of the old guard. You have Gonzo, Bradley, Ream, Pulisic, Zardes, Areiola and Yedlin that we're apart of the failed game against Tand T

So let's look at the players:

Gonzo: I don't like this pick by Berhalter. I think Z-man should have been called up instead

Bradley: Big game experience. Still isntalented, and can provide leadership to some of the new CM's. You can hate Bradley, but he stil has quality.

Ream: quite frankly the way Berhalter is playing the outside backs it suits Tim Teams ability at the LB position.

Pulisic: Mostbtakented player we have right now

Zardes: delivers what Berhalter wants from his CF.

Arriola: Continues to get better and better at RW for DC United. Has talent. And works his ass off on both sides of the ball.

Yedlin: Best and most talented RB right now.

So please tell me what other old guard are you talking about?


Why does he have to call in Weah and Sergeant b.c they have WAY more skill than the MLS jokers. If we are looking towards 22 they need to be included.

1. Bradley-who cares about his big game exp. The last big game he was in he was jogging around the field with Jozy in Trinidad. I loved Bradley when he was in his prime but he is not anymore-sure he is skilled but no way will he be starting in 22 so him be included hurts younger players.

2. Zaredes- what does he silver? Poor touch, poor passing? I like Zardes if I was an mls owner I would pick him for my team. But for the Nats he is just not int quality. If you want to bring him as a fringe but with a straight face can not say he should be included and not Green, TW, JS, Or Noka.

3. Gonzo-Why? Would have been better to call EPB, Zimmerman, or even CCV who I do not rate. its not like Gonzo was stellar when he played for the Nats and his game against Trinidad was you know not the best-we are talking about Trinidad not brazil

4. Ream. I like Ream he should have been included more in the past cycle, never understood why he didn't get more playing time. However, if you are including Ream you need in include Johnson-you have to acknowledge johnoson is better than Ream. and they are the same age.

5. PA. Sure the guy runs hard and try but this is not rec soccer. That should be a given-we need guys who if they are playing wide and cross the ball into the 18 consistently- same as above if i had an mls team he would be on it. Im not saying he shouldny be in the 23 but we have already seen him its time to see new guys

The old guard I was referring to is past coaches bringing in MLS guys.
Why is Roldon, Trapp, Baird, ramirez brought in.

If you are trying Baird-you could evaluate-Amon, Gall, Gooch, holms Del lucca, Parks, green.

If playing time is a consideration as you alluded too. Why is Morris and Lewis on the roster?

Why is FJ being evaluated and yet Ream, gonzo, Bradley at their age are being brought it.

Its a joke. I understand the logic of playing time as criteria but we are not Brazil, Germany, France-we have no depth, we need creative players, we need technical players, so we need to learn to look at who can REALISTICALLY produce in the future and start giving them looks.
Stoked
bjelks
Post #407
Thursday March 14, 2019 6:02pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
A fuckin man

Throw Sonora and Morales in that list.
goalsense
hamsamwich
Post #408
Thursday March 14, 2019 6:08pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,944
@stoked3- 100% agree. It's a shame Berhalter did this because the fan base was starting to be excited again. This kills a lot of momentum in that department. Expect a not so full stadium yet again, unless it's South Americans rooting for their countries. The higher ups are not acknowledging the big elephant in the room: disillusioned fans.

cudevil
Post #409
Thursday March 14, 2019 7:06pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 792
Original post from stoked3

Why does he have to call in Weah and Sergeant b.c they have WAY more skill than the MLS jokers. If we are looking towards 22 they need to be included.

1. Bradley-who cares about his big game exp. The last big game he was in he was jogging around the field with Jozy in Trinidad. I loved Bradley when he was in his prime but he is not anymore-sure he is skilled but no way will he be starting in 22 so him be included hurts younger players.

2. Zaredes- what does he silver? Poor touch, poor passing? I like Zardes if I was an mls owner I would pick him for my team. But for the Nats he is just not int quality. If you want to bring him as a fringe but with a straight face can not say he should be included and not Green, TW, JS, Or Noka.

3. Gonzo-Why? Would have been better to call EPB, Zimmerman, or even CCV who I do not rate. its not like Gonzo was stellar when he played for the Nats and his game against Trinidad was you know not the best-we are talking about Trinidad not brazil

4. Ream. I like Ream he should have been included more in the past cycle, never understood why he didn't get more playing time. However, if you are including Ream you need in include Johnson-you have to acknowledge johnoson is better than Ream. and they are the same age.

5. PA. Sure the guy runs hard and try but this is not rec soccer. That should be a given-we need guys who if they are playing wide and cross the ball into the 18 consistently- same as above if i had an mls team he would be on it. Im not saying he shouldny be in the 23 but we have already seen him its time to see new guys

The old guard I was referring to is past coaches bringing in MLS guys.
Why is Roldon, Trapp, Baird, ramirez brought in.

If you are trying Baird-you could evaluate-Amon, Gall, Gooch, holms Del lucca, Parks, green.

If playing time is a consideration as you alluded too. Why is Morris and Lewis on the roster?

Why is FJ being evaluated and yet Ream, gonzo, Bradley at their age are being brought it.

Its a joke. I understand the logic of playing time as criteria but we are not Brazil, Germany, France-we have no depth, we need creative players, we need technical players, so we need to learn to look at who can REALISTICALLY produce in the future and start giving them looks.


I could somewhat understand not calling Sargent and Weah in IF they had never been capped before. That's obviously not the case. Even more maddening is that they have both shown the ability to produce with the senior team. The idea that they are going to be U20 players is pretty stupid as well. PSG might release Weah for the U20 WC, but it would be shocking to me if Bremen would let Sargent go.

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #410
Thursday March 14, 2019 8:38pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,447
Original post from bjelks

Did you notice that he only took flyers on MLS players that we've already seen and it's an international window lol?

What can we learn from flyers on over 23 players we've already seen?

Also, did you know that before our core Euro guys became core Euro guys they had to called for an initial camps first lol?


What I did notice was how much he stressed continuity and players already integrated into his system...very important for him to Have solid players with three weeks of experience under their belt to build on. He clearly values the ability of the MLS guys he brought into this camp.

Everybody is taking pot shots at the roster...let him do his thing. He clearly has a plan in place.

If it looks terrible without some of the starlets you guys want to see, then call him out.

He's a solid coach, not some clueless fuck. It's really comical, there is so much going on behind the scenes that he is privy to that Internet fans will never know about. Why certain guys are not invited...there are a lot of things in play we know nothing about.

Know Nothing
Post #411
Thursday March 14, 2019 10:18pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,541
Original post from chris_thebassplayer

What I did notice was how much he stressed continuity and players already integrated into his system...very important for him to Have solid players with three weeks of experience under their belt to build on. He clearly values the ability of the MLS guys he brought into this camp.

Everybody is taking pot shots at the roster...let him do his thing. He clearly has a plan in place.

If it looks terrible without some of the starlets you guys want to see, then call him out.

He's a solid coach, not some clueless fuck. It's really comical, there is so much going on behind the scenes that he is privy to that Internet fans will never know about. Why certain guys are not invited...there are a lot of things in play we know nothing about.


I get what you are saying, and yes he should not be judged on so few matches. But at the same time, continuity under the old regime (read Arena) is what led us to get stale and not qualify.

I don't think as a whole there are many objections...just objections to a few older players that have had opportunities in the past and performed inconsistently.

Continuity is good if it works, but when will we ever find out if a player like Holmes fits his system? Isn't it better to try and get a measure of him before meaningful games happen?

You need fresh blood all the time to push the established players...let them know they are not automatic starters. Even if they don't work out, the reminder is there to always be working and never stop looking over your shoulder.

For better or worse our Gold Cup roster will consist of players called up for the last 4 matches...because of "continuity".

cudevil
Post #412
Thursday March 14, 2019 10:45pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 792
Original post from chris_thebassplayer

What I did notice was how much he stressed continuity and players already integrated into his system...very important for him to Have solid players with three weeks of experience under their belt to build on. He clearly values the ability of the MLS guys he brought into this camp.

Everybody is taking pot shots at the roster...let him do his thing. He clearly has a plan in place.

If it looks terrible without some of the starlets you guys want to see, then call him out.

He's a solid coach, not some clueless fuck. It's really comical, there is so much going on behind the scenes that he is privy to that Internet fans will never know about. Why certain guys are not invited...there are a lot of things in play we know nothing about.


How do we know he "clearly has a plan in place"? Or better stated, why should we trust his plan? Particularly after he calls in guys like Omar. Or calls in 4(!) guys whose highest best use is probably a no. 6. Or calls in Morris (who I happen to like more than most) and Lewis (who was one of maybe 3-5 guys that I wanted to see more after Camp Cupcake), despite their very limited recent playing time, but not Sargent, Nova, Wood, or Weah? I won't go so far as to say European based players are being "punished", but it sure looks like some of the factors are applied on a sliding scale (and given that all 4 had zero problem with call ups under Sarachan, it seems VERY unlikely that their clubs or the players would be resistant to getting called in now).

By my count, there are 12 guys on this roster that have been "integrated" into his system, most of whom do not have a particular future for '22. Can you explain why it's desireable to have guys that are "integrated" into his system for his second set of friendlies? Shouldn't he be trying to get as many different people as possible "integrated" so that he has a broader pool when we have games that matter? You think it's sound reasoning to have Roldan or Arriola on this roster over Holmes because they've been "integrated"? And of course, the whole "integration" rationale becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy really quickly, and sure allows some faves to get entrenched to the potential detriment of guys that might be more talented.

Why is it desirable to have continuity right now? It's his second camp and first FIFA date. Even if he's got an eye on the Gold Cup, there's another set of friendlies just prior so he can get all the continuity he needs. Frankly, I don't think we should even care about a result at the GC-everything should be geared towards '22-but I understand that people's mileage may vary on that.

Given the complete debacle of a hiring process, I see basically no reason that anyone at USSF should be granted the benefit of the doubt, most especially Berhalter.

cudevil
Post #413
Thursday March 14, 2019 10:52pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 792
Just to continue my rant, this is from Berhalter:

"We thought it was important to tie some of the themes of last camp into this next camp and to have some consistency in the personnel made a lot of sense," Berhalter said. "Again, we still think we're able to evaluate a new group of players and we think that is going to be valuable as we move into the Gold Cup."

Who is new that he's evaluating? It's some no-brainers in CP, McKennie, Yedlin, Adams, Brooks, etc. (and if he's "evaluating" these guys right now, we're screwed). Then basically a bunch of dudes that he already saw for 3 weeks. The only mystery here might be Morris, and that's because he's been out for a year. Otherwise, he's not evaluating shit.

bjelks
Post #414
Thursday March 14, 2019 11:18pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
Original post from chris_thebassplayer

What I did notice was how much he stressed continuity and players already integrated into his system...very important for him to Have solid players with three weeks of experience under their belt to build on. He clearly values the ability of the MLS guys he brought into this camp.

Everybody is taking pot shots at the roster...let him do his thing. He clearly has a plan in place.

If it looks terrible without some of the starlets you guys want to see, then call him out.

He's a solid coach, not some clueless fuck. It's really comical, there is so much going on behind the scenes that he is privy to that Internet fans will never know about. Why certain guys are not invited...there are a lot of things in play we know nothing about.


I must stress again, what good is continuity if you're not evaluating other options to ensure you have the best group available to build on?
We also haven't seen any success with his system against elite competition, so why should we trust it?
I understand he values these MLS players and thinks they are solid, but that same philosophy is the exact reason we failed to qualify last cycle. Ie "the old guard"

I understand he has a plan, but it seems like his plan is to only integrate new MLS players and to prioritize system fits over talent. We can debate this if you like, but I've never heard a manager at a top level ever in history achieve success by prioritizing not only his system but significantly lesser talent at least by world standards over greater talent.
This leads the general soccer community to question the rationale of his plan.

I have tickets for the Chile game and I tried to sell them but couldn't find any buyers so I'm stuck so I'll see what they do, but if they don't win and convincingly I will definitely call him out.

Again, GB hasn't won any significant trophies and it can be argued that he got this job as a favor to his brother, so I don't have any evidence that he's a "solid coach".
In every passionate soccer nation with a track record of success, the manager is questioned publicly for blatantly head scratching roster decisions.
I haven't seen any statements from him on Holmes, Nova, Morales, or Sonora.
This leads me to believe he doesn't rate them, which is a big concern regarding whether he's clueless or not, especially considering the caliber of players he picked.
He has on record said that Corey Baird is impressive and Sargent isnt good enough to play over Zardes, so yea the evidence of his ability to rate players seems a bit suspect.
goalsense
chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #415
Thursday March 14, 2019 11:59pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,447
Enjoy the ride guys, you'll learn to love him as coach of the nats...

Dave
Post #416
Friday March 15, 2019 2:27am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 967
I for 1 have no issue with calling in players to maintain a bit of continuity....but those players needed to be stand-out performers. Not just players who were in the last camp(s).

Lovitz - Was abused and targeted by less than full strength Panama & Costa Rica sides is now going to be expected to face off against a higher level opponent in Chile with a different result?

Ramirez - Who has a total of 18 minutes of International Experience is considered a veteran and needed for continuity over players who have been contributing to the Sr. Team for the past 14 months (Sargent & Weah)

Baird - performed passably, but wasn't a stand-out in the last camp is needed for continuity? Would prefer Lewis be used as the continuity guy while bringing in someone else to get them exposed to GB's system. At least Lewis performed above average the last camp.

Ream & Omar - who have had numerous opportunities and failed to make a case for themselves under 2 previous coaching staffs are suddenly Veterans, who are worthy of consideration over players who were in the last camp & performed well (Zimmerman) or players who have been part of the team the last 14 months (CCV).

And the claim that some of the younger players are better off being with the U-23's to prepare for the Olympic Qualification is Bull Shit. Guys like Robinson, CCV, Weah & Sargent are not going to be released for the Olympic Qualification tournament, and they are good enough to contribute to the Sr. National team (As evidenced by their minutes logged last year). Bringing them into the GB fold now would have helped "Continuity" and have helped them to contribute sooner (Gold Cup) rather than later (WCQ).

I'm fine with continuing the experiment/continuity with Zardes, Arriola, Roldan, Lima, Long, and even Trapp & Bradley. Even though I don't think they are our best options.
But at least bring in new players to take a look at who will potentially challenge them. Guys like Holmes, CCV, Sargent, Weah, etc.... Otherwise we'll continue to be a stagnant program, and any good will/hope generated with the supporters over the last year with all the new faces will evaporate quickly.

BMD15
Boston
Post #417
Friday March 15, 2019 3:20am

Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts: 142
Original post from bjelks

We also haven't seen any success with his system against elite competition, so why should we trust it?.


Playing devil's advocate: By that methodology we also haven't seen any failures with his system against elite competition, so why should we doubt it?
NETID
bjelks
Post #418
Friday March 15, 2019 3:30am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
Original post from BMD15

Playing devil's advocate: By that methodology we also haven't seen any failures with his system against elite competition, so why should we doubt it?


Lol, For one a system has never won a major trophy before. Talent has no matter what system has been used.
We should doubt whatever Berhalter says and does because he's saying and doing ridiculous things and has never won ANYTHING before.
goalsense
Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #419
Friday March 15, 2019 3:55am

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 699
Just a reminder to everyone freaking out over the roster . . . these are friendly matches not world cup matches. Remember also that we played a couple of minnow teams and everyone said, we now want to see what we can do vs better competition. Here is our chance, if these MLS guys can't cut the mustard here is the opportunity to weed them out because these are better teams.

cudevil
Post #420
Friday March 15, 2019 4:48am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 792
Original post from Kamphgruppe

Just a reminder to everyone freaking out over the roster . . . these are friendly matches not world cup matches. Remember also that we played a couple of minnow teams and everyone said, we now want to see what we can do vs better competition. Here is our chance, if these MLS guys can't cut the mustard here is the opportunity to weed them out because these are better teams.


The issue is that GB, with his emphasis on continuity and recalling more vets, seems to be treating this like a WC roster. There is almost zero experimentation in terms of personnel. We know exactly what we are getting from just about everyone on the roster save Lima, Lewis, and maybe Ramirez.

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