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John-Lewis
Post #391
Wednesday March 13, 2019 6:15pm

Joined Feb 2019
Total Posts: 48
Honestly, I don't see much wrong with the roster. All of the core players from Europe are in the roster, and all of the MLS players are veterans of his system. If I had the choice most of the MLS players would not be in the roster. Unfortunately though, we have no other European players that would fill theses empty roles. Yeah, you can whine about how Nova, Wood, Saief, and Sonora are not in the line-up but the truth is none of them have played consistently for their clubs. And you can point out that Lewis doesn't start for his club (even though he does now) but GB brought him back. The reason GB brought him back is because he played excellently in both friendlies, getting an assist in each game. While we did not got all the players we wanted, we still got a good line up for what was left at hand.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #392
Wednesday March 13, 2019 6:59pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 699
Original post from bjelks

I think he owes the fans and soccer community an explanation for each and every selection.
We can all agree that quite a few of them if not most are head scratching.
At the very least to build rapport with the fan base that pays hard earned money to watch his team.
You seem very trusting of GB's logic. Why? I'm not. What has he won to earn this trust?
I could argue that he's unqualified for this job and was offered it as a favor to his brother.

Has he stated the criteria for call ups? If it's the quality of the league you play in, how do you leave out starters in Bundesliga, Eredivisie, Championship and Argentina?
If it's playing time, how do you call Morris and Lewis? If it's system fits, what has he proven to trust his system will elevate the program?

If the purpose of these games is to evaluate players for ‘22, why does he call in "fringe vets" who are past their prime now and only getting worse?
Again he's trying to lay the foundation for the new direction of the program, why does he repeatedly call MLSers that will never be good enough to make an impact at the international level?
And I don't have beef with MLS, Steffen, Adams, Cannon, Acosta have quality, but other than Lima, Long and maybe Lttetget the January guys looked very pedestrian.
Wouldn't that time be better spent developing guys like Holmes, Nova, Sonora who play at a higher level than MLS and have much more potential to make an impact in ‘22?
If he wanted veteran presence, why not pick the veterans that are playing at the highest levels?
Morales and Fab start in a top league right now.

If this camp is any indication, we will have 4-5 "first choice" guys that are complete liabilities at the international level. Do you understand how hard it is to build a foundation when nearly half your first choice guys are at a significantly lower level than the others.
I'll be specific, the only guys good enough to make ‘22 from this team are Steffen, Miazga, Brooks, Yedlin, CP, Mckennie, Adams.

It seems like the only agendas GB has are to promote MLS, punish abroad players, and to prove his tactical superiority by winning with 2nd and 3rd division players.
So I ask you how do you set a foundation with almost half a starting lineup to fill and all the reserves? And when are we supposed to integrate new players if it's not during early friendlies?


What coach anywhere in the world explains each and every call up to the fans, plz don't be so naive.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #393
Wednesday March 13, 2019 7:08pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,095
Greg Berhalter has been way more vocal about his tactics and plans for the USMNT. Even more so than Bob Bradley. Shit way more than Klinsmann and Arena.

And no there is no coach that would explain every single call up. Berhalter has zero agenda. His agenda is to evaluate and find the best team for the Gold Cup this summer. Jesus it's not hard to find his comments about this current roster.

Punish abroad players? You are on a whole other level of paranoia, dude.

Do you hear yourself type? Berhalter played in Holland, England, and Germany for 15 years, and coached in Sweden for 2 years. I'm pretty sure he understands the level of soccer/league some players are playing over in Europe versus the level players are playing in in MLS.

bjelks
Post #394
Wednesday March 13, 2019 7:50pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
Original post from Kamphgruppe

What coach anywhere in the world explains each and every call up to the fans, plz don't be so naive.


Actually JK used to have web conferences to discuss his rosters and answers pointed questions about player selection.
Mourinho and Pep would also answer pointed questions and discuss squads in detail.
And when they didn't want to answer, they would say look what I've done ala Belichick or Kerr.
But Greg hasn't done anything to have such a head scratching roster and not explain it.
goalsense
Pstkeeper
Post #395
Wednesday March 13, 2019 8:15pm

Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts: 9
I would think that Horvath should be on your list of players that are good enough for the 2022 team. He is playing at a very consistent level and on a very good path right now in his development.

bjelks
Post #396
Wednesday March 13, 2019 8:31pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
Original post from 2tone

Greg Berhalter has been way more vocal about his tactics and plans for the USMNT. Even more so than Bob Bradley. Shit way more than Klinsmann and Arena.

And no there is no coach that would explain every single call up. Berhalter has zero agenda. His agenda is to evaluate and find the best team for the Gold Cup this summer. Jesus it's not hard to find his comments about this current roster.

Punish abroad players? You are on a whole other level of paranoia, dude.

Do you hear yourself type? Berhalter played in Holland, England, and Germany for 15 years, and coached in Sweden for 2 years. I'm pretty sure he understands the level of soccer/league some players are playing over in Europe versus the level players are playing in in MLS.


This is his first camp with the full pool available.
If his goal is to find the best team available for GC and not punish abroad players for not being in the January MLS Camp, then WHY THE FUCK ARE THERE NO NEW NON MLS PLAYERS BEING CALLED FOR THESE FRIENDLIES?

Greg literally called every MLS player and national team failure that still plays for these friendlies.
He called Omar who scored an own goal that cost us a trip to the WC from fucking 20
yards out.
He called Jonathan Lewis who didn't make the playoff roster for NYFC last yr.
He called Jordan Morris who has played twice in 18 months.

Only 2 of these MLS players were named to either the MLS All-Star team or the best 11.
You mean to tell me there's a justifiable reason he didnt call 1 new abroad player lol?

FiveThirtyEight has a list of global club rankings. There is 1 MLS Club inside the top 200.
There are 11 Championship teams inside the top 200.
And you mean to tell me a Bundesliga starter or Championship starter aren't even good enough for camp lol?

Regarding the MLS agenda, Greg's brother is the Chief of Marketing for the USSF and is jockeying to be the next CEO. The USSF has the same Marketing company SUM as MLS. Of course SUM would like USSF to market MLS players and I'm sure there's a kicker for USSF execs lol. The more USSF markets MLS the better it is for both business interests. What a joke.
goalsense
BMD15
Boston
Post #397
Wednesday March 13, 2019 9:04pm

Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts: 142
Original post from bjelks

I think he owes the fans and soccer community an explanation for each and every selection.
We can all agree that quite a few of them if not most are head scratching.
At the very least to build rapport with the fan base that pays hard earned money to watch his team.
You seem very trusting of GB's logic. Why? I'm not. What has he won to earn this trust?
I could argue that he's unqualified for this job and was offered it as a favor to his brother.

Has he stated the criteria for call ups? If it's the quality of the league you play in, how do you leave out starters in Bundesliga, Eredivisie, Championship and Argentina?
If it's playing time, how do you call Morris and Lewis? If it's system fits, what has he proven to trust his system will elevate the program?

If the purpose of these games is to evaluate players for ‘22, why does he call in "fringe vets" who are past their prime now and only getting worse?
Again he's trying to lay the foundation for the new direction of the program, why does he repeatedly call MLSers that will never be good enough to make an impact at the international level?
And I don't have beef with MLS, Steffen, Adams, Cannon, Acosta have quality, but other than Lima, Long and maybe Lttetget the January guys looked very pedestrian.
Wouldn't that time be better spent developing guys like Holmes, Nova, Sonora who play at a higher level than MLS and have much more potential to make an impact in ‘22?
If he wanted veteran presence, why not pick the veterans that are playing at the highest levels?
Morales and Fab start in a top league right now.

If this camp is any indication, we will have 4-5 "first choice" guys that are complete liabilities at the international level. Do you understand how hard it is to build a foundation when nearly half your first choice guys are at a significantly lower level than the others.
I'll be specific, the only guys good enough to make ‘22 from this team are Steffen, Miazga, Brooks, Yedlin, CP, Mckennie, Adams.

It seems like the only agendas GB has are to promote MLS, punish abroad players, and to prove his tactical superiority by winning with 2nd and 3rd division players.
So I ask you how do you set a foundation with almost half a starting lineup to fill and all the reserves? And when are we supposed to integrate new players if it's not during early friendlies?


There's a lot to unpack there.

GB doesn't "owe" the fans anything in terms of explaining each and every roster selection. As other have said, he's been significantly more transparent in his vision than most of his predecessors.

There are certainly some head-scratchers in terms of inclusions/omissions, but I wouldn't say it's the majority of players called up. As for trusting GB's logic, it's more that I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being. He has had exactly 1 camp to work with so far, one that was made up entirely of domestic based players.

I get why people want to see all these other guys in camp, and I'm not saying they didn't deserve a call up or shouldn't get them in the future. Berhalter talked about continuity, I'm just making assumptions that based on that statement it's easier to take a group of guys who spent a full month isolated learning his system and toss in 10-12 new guys who can piggyback off of that experience than to toss 25 new faces together and try to cram the same lessons/tactics/responsibilities into one week.

As for the fringe vets, despite your repeated calls for Morales (who's fine as a depth piece), he has half the caps of Ream and a about a quarter of that of Gonzalez (and also plays a completely different position than them). Blame JK and BA and BB for not calling him in more but that's the reality of the situation. Nothing more, nothing less. As for Fab, he's hinted pretty heavily in the past that he was done at the international level but GB said he's been in contact. What more can we reasonably expect there?

As far as integrating new players there's a u-23 camp on the horizon where some of the younger guys can get reps and game time, help them build confidence that they can hopefully take back to their club situations. There's a FIFA window in June (pre-GC), the GC itself, and windows in Sept-Oct-Nov of this year. Obviously only time will tell, but those give plenty of opportunities just this year to start cycling in new players and acclimating them into the group.

When evaluating players (or anything really) you need a baseline. Greg's was the month-long January camp and the players he had at his disposal. He brought in the core guys (the 7 you mentioned) which gives him an opportunity to compare what he saw during that first month with how some of those same guys play with the guys we all expect to be starters and against better competition. The cream rises to the top, depth charts become a little clearer, and new guys can be given their chance next camp. Tinkering too much lead to singular data points that offer little context or actionable insights that can be gleaned from them. How can you draw conclusions from that?

If we're looking at this same roster come September then GB deserves criticism but at this point let's see what he's actually building...
NETID
stoked3
Ft Lauderdale, FL
Post #398
Wednesday March 13, 2019 9:24pm

Joined Oct 2014
Total Posts: 267
Original post from 2tone

Greg Berhalter has been way more vocal about his tactics and plans for the USMNT. Even more so than Bob Bradley. Shit way more than Klinsmann and Arena.

And no there is no coach that would explain every single call up. Berhalter has zero agenda. His agenda is to evaluate and find the best team for the Gold Cup this summer. Jesus it's not hard to find his comments about this current roster.

Punish abroad players? You are on a whole other level of paranoia, dude.

Do you hear yourself type? Berhalter played in Holland, England, and Germany for 15 years, and coached in Sweden for 2 years. I'm pretty sure he understands the level of soccer/league some players are playing over in Europe versus the level players are playing in in MLS.


I think 2 annoying things that angers most of NATS fans- is how long it took to hire him and camp cupcake.

You mention he is trying to find the best Gold cup team-thats ok-but he gave mls guys who clearly not qualified at the Int level in camp cupcake a chance. Players aboard are not afforded the same camp. If he had been hired a year ago he would not have been rushed for time before the gold cup to evaluate players.

I think GB will be one of the best Nats coaches we have had, I like that he has been transparent but this roster sucks. Its smells of the old guard.

If you are giving mls try hard guys a chance-you need to do the same for yanks abroad. To much is emphasis is given to playing time as that will matter from player to player. If someone who is not playing overseas is better than someone who is playing in mls they should be called in. And at this point and time with the our program we need depth-some guys perform better for club than country and vis versa-we need to see the young overseas players.

And if we are eying 22 we need to see them now and get them exp.

Bradley, ream, omar, will not help us in 22. Realistically neither does roldon and zardes but if we are looking at them at depth we need to look at others for depth as well.

we need to see holmes, green, if you are calling ream you NEED to call in Fabian, I don't think morales is a guy who fits in with our team but shoot he needs to be evaluated over roldon/trapp. If you call in Zardes and Ramirez you have to call in Sergeant Weah Noko etc

What we will hear next is we are trying to gell as a team and we can't bring in new guys bc they don't know the system.

this roster is maddening to most US fans b.c of who gets looks and who does not.

I read GB interview re the roster-he said Fabian was to old and he would evaluate him-that is what makes us a joke internationally. Bc we took Ream Omar and Bradley but Fabian is not good enough for a call up -give me a break.
Stoked
hamsamwich
Post #399
Wednesday March 13, 2019 9:37pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,944
@db707- that lineup I posted is what I think we will see but not what I would do. Anyone following the Chelsea saga all season should recognize this scenario with Bradley like Jorginho trying to play holding midfield with a better holding midfielder nearby but out of position. I will reserve judgment on Berhalter for a while but certain things don't look good. But for the Bradley haters there's a silver lining as he may get exposed by these South American teams and play his way out of the lineup, if he is as bad as everyone says. Maybe he puts in a good performance but I don't see it he just doesn't have the legs to play defense anymore.

db707
Post #400
Wednesday March 13, 2019 10:17pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 798
Original post from hamsamwich

@db707- that lineup I posted is what I think we will see but not what I would do. Anyone following the Chelsea saga all season should recognize this scenario with Bradley like Jorginho trying to play holding midfield with a better holding midfielder nearby but out of position. I will reserve judgment on Berhalter for a while but certain things don't look good. But for the Bradley haters there's a silver lining as he may get exposed by these South American teams and play his way out of the lineup, if he is as bad as everyone says. Maybe he puts in a good performance but I don't see it he just doesn't have the legs to play defense anymore.


I know, I didn't mean to imply that it was your personally preferred lineup. I'll still support the team I just remain disappointed that we're not taking a look at really anyone new, since we have so few opportunities to do so. Really, we have this friendly window, then friendlies pre-Gold Cup (where I'd be surprised to see many new faces), Gold Cup, then Concacaf Nations League, World Cup qualifying soon thereafter. Very few friendly windows with everyone available remaining. It goes back to the farcical coaching search, we should have had a manager in December 2017-January 2018, not nearly a year later, especially if it was just going to be Berhalter anyway.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #401
Wednesday March 13, 2019 10:30pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,095
Original post from stoked3

I think 2 annoying things that angers most of NATS fans- is how long it took to hire him and camp cupcake.

You mention he is trying to find the best Gold cup team-thats ok-but he gave mls guys who clearly not qualified at the Int level in camp cupcake a chance. Players aboard are not afforded the same camp. If he had been hired a year ago he would not have been rushed for time before the gold cup to evaluate players.

I think GB will be one of the best Nats coaches we have had, I like that he has been transparent but this roster sucks. Its smells of the old guard.

If you are giving mls try hard guys a chance-you need to do the same for yanks abroad. To much is emphasis is given to playing time as that will matter from player to player. If someone who is not playing overseas is better than someone who is playing in mls they should be called in. And at this point and time with the our program we need depth-some guys perform better for club than country and vis versa-we need to see the young overseas players.

And if we are eying 22 we need to see them now and get them exp.

Bradley, ream, omar, will not help us in 22. Realistically neither does roldon and zardes but if we are looking at them at depth we need to look at others for depth as well.

we need to see holmes, green, if you are calling ream you NEED to call in Fabian, I don't think morales is a guy who fits in with our team but shoot he needs to be evaluated over roldon/trapp. If you call in Zardes and Ramirez you have to call in Sergeant Weah Noko etc

What we will hear next is we are trying to gell as a team and we can't bring in new guys bc they don't know the system.

this roster is maddening to most US fans b.c of who gets looks and who does not.

I read GB interview re the roster-he said Fabian was to old and he would evaluate him-that is what makes us a joke internationally. Bc we took Ream Omar and Bradley but Fabian is not good enough for a call up -give me a break.


Just curious what Yanks abroad? He called in tanks abroad who are actually playing consistently with their club teams. Green? Uhm.... what player from MLS does Green bear out? Holmes is probably the only player I would have liked to have seen called in. But he wasn't. That's life. Holmes still
Needs to be consistent with his club treat.

I read the article and Berhalter did not say Fabian was to old. By 2022 Fabian will be 35.... Berhalter explicitly stated the door is open for Fabian. Fabian Johnson was the one who stepped away from the international game. Can Fabian handle being a bench player? That's the question.

Why do you have to call in Sargent, Weah, and Novo? Why? Sargent and Weah are barely establishing themselves at the club level and Novakovich is probably going to the u23 camp. Just like Sargent and Weah. It's more than likely Sargent and Weah are going to be on the u20 team. So why would Berhalter call them up when they won't be on the Gold Cup team? Ramirez and Zardes are scoring goals. So is Morris. And more than likely all 3 will be on the Gold Cup team.

Im not saying this roster is the greatest roster ever. But it doesn't suck nor does it smack of the old guard. You have Gonzo, Bradley, Ream, Pulisic, Zardes, Areiola and Yedlin that we're apart of the failed game against Tand T

So let's look at the players:

Gonzo: I don't like this pick by Berhalter. I think Z-man should have been called up instead

Bradley: Big game experience. Still isntalented, and can provide leadership to some of the new CM's. You can hate Bradley, but he stil has quality.

Ream: quite frankly the way Berhalter is playing the outside backs it suits Tim Teams ability at the LB position.

Pulisic: Mostbtakented player we have right now

Zardes: delivers what Berhalter wants from his CF.

Arriola: Continues to get better and better at RW for DC United. Has talent. And works his ass off on both sides of the ball.

Yedlin: Best and most talented RB right now.

So please tell me what other old guard are you talking about?

John-Lewis
Post #402
Wednesday March 13, 2019 11:10pm

Joined Feb 2019
Total Posts: 48
Wait, why did GB pick Lovitz instead of Z-Man?

chris_thebassplayer
San Jose
Post #403
Thursday March 14, 2019 3:16am

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 1,447
I wanted to see Steffen, MB, Long, Lima and Lletget from camp cupcake...glad they made it. I wanted to see Sargent, but GB had different plans for him...no worries.

I really like the Ream call up. Especially if GB continues with the hybrid RB role...Ream could slot in at the conservative LB spot...he has great pass out of the back. I'd love to see Yedlin flop to LB

He has his Core Euro dudes, so I don't mind him taken a flyer on a couple guys.

Forward is thin.

Can't wait to see who starts at RB and Dmid...

cudevil
Post #404
Thursday March 14, 2019 1:28pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 792
Original post from BMD15

There's a lot to unpack there.

GB doesn't "owe" the fans anything in terms of explaining each and every roster selection. As other have said, he's been significantly more transparent in his vision than most of his predecessors.

There are certainly some head-scratchers in terms of inclusions/omissions, but I wouldn't say it's the majority of players called up. As for trusting GB's logic, it's more that I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the time being. He has had exactly 1 camp to work with so far, one that was made up entirely of domestic based players.

I get why people want to see all these other guys in camp, and I'm not saying they didn't deserve a call up or shouldn't get them in the future. Berhalter talked about continuity, I'm just making assumptions that based on that statement it's easier to take a group of guys who spent a full month isolated learning his system and toss in 10-12 new guys who can piggyback off of that experience than to toss 25 new faces together and try to cram the same lessons/tactics/responsibilities into one week.

As for the fringe vets, despite your repeated calls for Morales (who's fine as a depth piece), he has half the caps of Ream and a about a quarter of that of Gonzalez (and also plays a completely different position than them). Blame JK and BA and BB for not calling him in more but that's the reality of the situation. Nothing more, nothing less. As for Fab, he's hinted pretty heavily in the past that he was done at the international level but GB said he's been in contact. What more can we reasonably expect there?

As far as integrating new players there's a u-23 camp on the horizon where some of the younger guys can get reps and game time, help them build confidence that they can hopefully take back to their club situations. There's a FIFA window in June (pre-GC), the GC itself, and windows in Sept-Oct-Nov of this year. Obviously only time will tell, but those give plenty of opportunities just this year to start cycling in new players and acclimating them into the group.

When evaluating players (or anything really) you need a baseline. Greg's was the month-long January camp and the players he had at his disposal. He brought in the core guys (the 7 you mentioned) which gives him an opportunity to compare what he saw during that first month with how some of those same guys play with the guys we all expect to be starters and against better competition. The cream rises to the top, depth charts become a little clearer, and new guys can be given their chance next camp. Tinkering too much lead to singular data points that offer little context or actionable insights that can be gleaned from them. How can you draw conclusions from that?

If we're looking at this same roster come September then GB deserves criticism but at this point let's see what he's actually building...


A camp for an age group that doesn't exist outside the Olympics and that many nations don't really care about is a poor substitution for integrating new players. The only justification for some of these decisions would be an agreement with the player/club that certain guys get passed over this time so the club remains the focus.

I really hope this isn't the beginning of Zardes being one of GB's auto call ups, because he stinks at about everything save work rate. If you relying on the MLS for your strikers, then Jozy should be getting called in.

And again, it would be criminal if Adams is played out of position in order to get Bradley (or Trapp) on the field.

bjelks
Post #405
Thursday March 14, 2019 2:42pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,045
Original post from chris_thebassplayer

I wanted to see Steffen, MB, Long, Lima and Lletget from camp cupcake...glad they made it. I wanted to see Sargent, but GB had different plans for him...no worries.

I really like the Ream call up. Especially if GB continues with the hybrid RB role...Ream could slot in at the conservative LB spot...he has great pass out of the back. I'd love to see Yedlin flop to LB

He has his Core Euro dudes, so I don't mind him taken a flyer on a couple guys.

Forward is thin.

Can't wait to see who starts at RB and Dmid...


Did you notice that he only took flyers on MLS players that we've already seen and it's an international window lol?

What can we learn from flyers on over 23 players we've already seen?

Also, did you know that before our core Euro guys became core Euro guys they had to called for an initial camps first lol?
goalsense
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