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Lilshmike
Post #376
Tuesday March 12, 2019 9:53pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,068
Original post from John-Lewis

It is because that is one of the main reasons that United States Mens Soccer sucks so much. Unlike all the other countries, we really don't care about our youth players. U.S. Clubs only care about the money from their young players and could care less about their quality and development.
Its because the U23s only play during the Olympics. And not all nations participate in the Olympics, so U23 isn't a priority.

There is no U23 youth team in reality. The U23s were last updated in 2016 because thats when the last Olympic cycle was.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #377
Tuesday March 12, 2019 10:57pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 719
Original post from bjelks

The problem is this friendly roster will shape most of the GC roster if not all, because GB was continuity and system fits...


Yeah, but don't we traditionally send a B squad with a few A players to the Gold Cup? If these were World Cup Qualifiers and they trotted out Omar Gonzalez then I think maybe then I would lose my shit but Gold Cup, meh not going to overreact.

Know Nothing
Post #378
Tuesday March 12, 2019 11:03pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,556
No, U-23 is not a priority...but roster continuity should be and we are allowing a number of our players to go stale between the U-20 and USMNT rosters.

Sure, some are talented enough to bridge the gap once their U-20 period is over, but most are not.

If Berhalter is a system guy, get the "next guys" set up in the system as well as they move from level to level.

This is also a safe way for duals to get acclimated without either side needing a full commitment.

If you can't find another nation to play, play a top European academy team that would otherwise be idle during the intnl break.

John-Lewis
Post #379
Tuesday March 12, 2019 11:03pm

Joined Feb 2019
Total Posts: 57
Original post from Kamphgruppe

Yeah, but don't we traditionally send a B squad with a few A players to the Gold Cup? If these were World Cup Qualifiers and they trotted out Omar Gonzalez then I think maybe then I would lose my shit but Gold Cup, meh not going to overreact.


The "lose my shit" made me laugh because it is exactly how I feel.

Know Nothing
Post #380
Tuesday March 12, 2019 11:08pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,556
Original post from Kamphgruppe

Yeah, but don't we traditionally send a B squad with a few A players to the Gold Cup? If these were World Cup Qualifiers and they trotted out Omar Gonzalez then I think maybe then I would lose my shit but Gold Cup, meh not going to overreact.


Normally, yes. But if we win this Gold Cup, we automatically go to the Confederations Cup in 2021

bjelks
Post #381
Tuesday March 12, 2019 11:52pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,086
Original post from Kamphgruppe

Yeah, but don't we traditionally send a B squad with a few A players to the Gold Cup? If these were World Cup Qualifiers and they trotted out Omar Gonzalez then I think maybe then I would lose my shit but Gold Cup, meh not going to overreact.


No, I think the manager traditionally sends who he thinks his best 23 are to GC.
And when GC comes around GB will say, I'm not calling guys that I haven't called before because I want continuity lol.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #382
Tuesday March 12, 2019 11:54pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,086
Original post from Know Nothing

No, U-23 is not a priority...but roster continuity should be and we are allowing a number of our players to go stale between the U-20 and USMNT rosters.

Sure, some are talented enough to bridge the gap once their U-20 period is over, but most are not.

If Berhalter is a system guy, get the "next guys" set up in the system as well as they move from level to level.

This is also a safe way for duals to get acclimated without either side needing a full commitment.

If you can't find another nation to play, play a top European academy team that would otherwise be idle during the intnl break.


What's the value of roster continuity if you're continuing to not even evaluate potentially better players for guys you just like for no reason?
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #383
Wednesday March 13, 2019 12:04am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,068
Original post from bjelks

No, I think the manager traditionally sends who he thinks his best 23 are to GC.
And when GC comes around GB will say, I'm not calling guys that I haven't called before because I want continuity lol.
No, you're incorrect. Traditionally it has depended on the circumstances of the GC. Last time around in 2017, we sent an MLS squad - a "B Squad". The time before in 2015, we sent an "A Squad" - one including your boy Morales.

In the past, only the winner of 1 GC of the 2 played every WC cycle qualified for the Confederations Cup. That GC, we would send an "A Squad". The other, we would send a "B Squad".

So sorry, you're incorrect on that. Shocker.

bjelks
Post #384
Wednesday March 13, 2019 1:06am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,086
Original post from Lilshmike

No, you're incorrect. Traditionally it has depended on the circumstances of the GC. Last time around in 2017, we sent an MLS squad - a "B Squad". The time before in 2015, we sent an "A Squad" - one including your boy Morales.

In the past, only the winner of 1 GC of the 2 played every WC cycle qualified for the Confederations Cup. That GC, we would send an "A Squad". The other, we would send a "B Squad".

So sorry, you're incorrect on that. Shocker.


Lol we sent Arena's preferred 23 minus 3 Euro guys which made up most of the qualification team.
You're full of shit and lying again. Shocker.
There were 3 starting changes from the GC final to the Trinidad Qualifier.
How the fuck do 3 changes constitute as B team?
goalsense
blaise213
Post #385
Wednesday March 13, 2019 9:20am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,814
Even with the MLS agenda, I would've called up:

Parks
Saief
Zelalem
Effrain A
Ebobisse

hamsamwich
Post #386
Wednesday March 13, 2019 11:47am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,982
It sounds like Adams will be played in the "Lima role" in one game and as a CDM another.

Morris - Zardes -Arriola
- Pulisic - McKennie -
-- Bradley --
Ream - Brooks - Long - Adams
-- Steffen ---

db707
Post #387
Wednesday March 13, 2019 2:42pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 836
Original post from hamsamwich

It sounds like Adams will be played in the "Lima role" in one game and as a CDM another.

Morris - Zardes -Arriola
- Pulisic - McKennie -
- Bradley -
Ream - Brooks - Long - Adams
- Steffen --


That lineup is uninspiring. If you're going to have certain regular call-ups with the U-23s and even U-20s anyway, I really don't get not calling in at least a couple new faces like Holmes and even bjelks's boy Sonora.

BMD15
Boston
Post #388
Wednesday March 13, 2019 3:12pm

Joined Oct 2015
Total Posts: 143
Original post from bjelks

What's the value of roster continuity if you're continuing to not even evaluate potentially better players for guys you just like for no reason?


Pretty sure GB has a reason for each and every selection he makes (and, no, it's not just to piss you off).

Overall, I'm meh on the roster. He could've done better, he could've done worse but it's not the end of the world. He brought in the core guys from Europe, a couple of fringe vets, and filled out the squad with a bunch of MLS'ers who he got to spend a month with trying to lay the foundation for how he wants his team to play.

With a short international window I get it. Rather than start from scratch with an entirely fresh group and limited time/training sessions, bring in a bunch of guys who spent a month learning the system to help the new players being integrated.

Would it have been nice to get some other guys in camp? Absolutely! But only 11 players are on the field and I'm guessing the more time the core Euro guys get to learn the system/gel on the field under GB the better the program will be in the lead up to 2022. We may be looking at limited subs to get the first choice guys as much time as possible together. That also ties in to the upcoming u-23 camp to get those guys still fighting for first team minutes in Europe (Sargent, Weah, etc.) more reps and time on the field in an actual game setting.

Maybe I'm way off base, but my assumption is as time goes on, we'll see more and more players integrated to keep expanding the player pool. For now it's baby steps and laying a solid foundation for the program to build off of rather than wholesale, radical changes in his second ever camp.
NETID
bjelks
Post #389
Wednesday March 13, 2019 4:15pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,086
Original post from BMD15

Pretty sure GB has a reason for each and every selection he makes (and, no, it's not just to piss you off).

Overall, I'm meh on the roster. He could've done better, he could've done worse but it's not the end of the world. He brought in the core guys from Europe, a couple of fringe vets, and filled out the squad with a bunch of MLS'ers who he got to spend a month with trying to lay the foundation for how he wants his team to play.

With a short international window I get it. Rather than start from scratch with an entirely fresh group and limited time/training sessions, bring in a bunch of guys who spent a month learning the system to help the new players being integrated.

Would it have been nice to get some other guys in camp? Absolutely! But only 11 players are on the field and I'm guessing the more time the core Euro guys get to learn the system/gel on the field under GB the better the program will be in the lead up to 2022. We may be looking at limited subs to get the first choice guys as much time as possible together. That also ties in to the upcoming u-23 camp to get those guys still fighting for first team minutes in Europe (Sargent, Weah, etc.) more reps and time on the field in an actual game setting.

Maybe I'm way off base, but my assumption is as time goes on, we'll see more and more players integrated to keep expanding the player pool. For now it's baby steps and laying a solid foundation for the program to build off of rather than wholesale, radical changes in his second ever camp.


I think he owes the fans and soccer community an explanation for each and every selection.
We can all agree that quite a few of them if not most are head scratching.
At the very least to build rapport with the fan base that pays hard earned money to watch his team.
You seem very trusting of GB's logic. Why? I'm not. What has he won to earn this trust?
I could argue that he's unqualified for this job and was offered it as a favor to his brother.

Has he stated the criteria for call ups? If it's the quality of the league you play in, how do you leave out starters in Bundesliga, Eredivisie, Championship and Argentina?
If it's playing time, how do you call Morris and Lewis? If it's system fits, what has he proven to trust his system will elevate the program?

If the purpose of these games is to evaluate players for ‘22, why does he call in "fringe vets" who are past their prime now and only getting worse?
Again he's trying to lay the foundation for the new direction of the program, why does he repeatedly call MLSers that will never be good enough to make an impact at the international level?
And I don't have beef with MLS, Steffen, Adams, Cannon, Acosta have quality, but other than Lima, Long and maybe Lttetget the January guys looked very pedestrian.
Wouldn't that time be better spent developing guys like Holmes, Nova, Sonora who play at a higher level than MLS and have much more potential to make an impact in ‘22?
If he wanted veteran presence, why not pick the veterans that are playing at the highest levels?
Morales and Fab start in a top league right now.

If this camp is any indication, we will have 4-5 "first choice" guys that are complete liabilities at the international level. Do you understand how hard it is to build a foundation when nearly half your first choice guys are at a significantly lower level than the others.
I'll be specific, the only guys good enough to make ‘22 from this team are Steffen, Miazga, Brooks, Yedlin, CP, Mckennie, Adams.

It seems like the only agendas GB has are to promote MLS, punish abroad players, and to prove his tactical superiority by winning with 2nd and 3rd division players.
So I ask you how do you set a foundation with almost half a starting lineup to fill and all the reserves? And when are we supposed to integrate new players if it's not during early friendlies?
goalsense
cudevil
Post #390
Wednesday March 13, 2019 4:25pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 808
Original post from BMD15

Pretty sure GB has a reason for each and every selection he makes (and, no, it's not just to piss you off).

Overall, I'm meh on the roster. He could've done better, he could've done worse but it's not the end of the world. He brought in the core guys from Europe, a couple of fringe vets, and filled out the squad with a bunch of MLS'ers who he got to spend a month with trying to lay the foundation for how he wants his team to play.

With a short international window I get it. Rather than start from scratch with an entirely fresh group and limited time/training sessions, bring in a bunch of guys who spent a month learning the system to help the new players being integrated.

Would it have been nice to get some other guys in camp? Absolutely! But only 11 players are on the field and I'm guessing the more time the core Euro guys get to learn the system/gel on the field under GB the better the program will be in the lead up to 2022. We may be looking at limited subs to get the first choice guys as much time as possible together. That also ties in to the upcoming u-23 camp to get those guys still fighting for first team minutes in Europe (Sargent, Weah, etc.) more reps and time on the field in an actual game setting.

Maybe I'm way off base, but my assumption is as time goes on, we'll see more and more players integrated to keep expanding the player pool. For now it's baby steps and laying a solid foundation for the program to build off of rather than wholesale, radical changes in his second ever camp.


It's precisely because we have limited international windows that he should be pushing the envelope right now. With this roster, Bethalter managed to go backwards from Sarachan in terms of the very much needed injection of youth into the team. I mean, my biggest complaint with Sarachan wasn't necessarily who he called in, but how he played the guys that he did call in. Now, we are seeing an Arena-esque roster. If it's because he wants vets for the GC, then he's a moron. Every move should be geared towards the long term result of qualifying and advancing ‘22. Who gives a shit if we manage to win the GC with dudes that have no future in the set up? It's just a stupid roster (and if he moves Adams to a hybrid right back so he can get Bradley on the field, then I might go reserve fireberhalter.com. I think Bradley fits on the roster, but he's not among the best 11, and certainly not worthy of moving arguably our current best out field player).

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