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cudevil
Post #46
Sunday February 10, 2019 11:43pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 868
Original post from bjelks

I just want to add that what Pulisic, Mckennie, Adams, even Sarg are doing and have done at top tier leagues at ages 18-20, surpasses what Bradley did and could do in his prime. They're better athletes, they're more technical, they're more ambitious.


Suggesting those guys are more ambitious is silly. Bradley went to the Netherlands at 19. I don't think he had a Euro passport, which means he went over about as early as he was legally able to. Throughout his time in Europe, he constantly sought to upgrade his club situation until MLS made an overwhelming offer, financially speaking. And while those other guys are more athletic, you don't play for a top team in Italy without significant technical ability and tactical awareness. His time for the Nats is winding down, but I have no idea why people feel the need to bad mouth one of top 5ish field players in USMNT history.

tylercocinas
Post #47
Monday February 11, 2019 2:23am

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 1,151
Original post from cudevil

Suggesting those guys are more ambitious is silly. Bradley went to the Netherlands at 19. I don't think he had a Euro passport, which means he went over about as early as he was legally able to. Throughout his time in Europe, he constantly sought to upgrade his club situation until MLS made an overwhelming offer, financially speaking. And while those other guys are more athletic, you don't play for a top team in Italy without significant technical ability and tactical awareness. His time for the Nats is winding down, but I have no idea why people feel the need to bad mouth one of top 5ish field players in USMNT history.


At his peak he was a baller. It's not up for debate in my opinion. That an American could start for Roma at that time was a phenomenal accomplishment. They were a top 3 team in one of Europe's best leagues.

bjelks
Post #48
Monday February 11, 2019 4:32am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,130
Original post from cudevil

Suggesting those guys are more ambitious is silly. Bradley went to the Netherlands at 19. I don't think he had a Euro passport, which means he went over about as early as he was legally able to. Throughout his time in Europe, he constantly sought to upgrade his club situation until MLS made an overwhelming offer, financially speaking. And while those other guys are more athletic, you don't play for a top team in Italy without significant technical ability and tactical awareness. His time for the Nats is winding down, but I have no idea why people feel the need to bad mouth one of top 5ish field players in USMNT history.


I will say Bradley had a very good career for an American, but to completely leave top tier football at 26 for an easy check is not respectable anywhere else in the world. The problem with lacking athleticism and having technical ability and tactical awareness is that your decline will happen much faster. Athleticism is the attribute you can't develop and it's that quality that makes your tactical awareness and technical ability valuable at a high level. Once you lose the ability to compete physically, you're a liability at a high level. It seems like American apologists ignore the fact that the best players in the world are also elite athletes.
goalsense
cudevil
Post #49
Monday February 11, 2019 5:23am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 868
Original post from bjelks

I will say Bradley had a very good career for an American, but to completely leave top tier football at 26 for an easy check is not respectable anywhere else in the world. The problem with lacking athleticism and having technical ability and tactical awareness is that your decline will happen much faster. Athleticism is the attribute you can't develop and it's that quality that makes your tactical awareness and technical ability valuable at a high level. Once you lose the ability to compete physically, you're a liability at a high level. It seems like American apologists ignore the fact that the best players in the world are also elite athletes.


Plenty of guys in some part of their prime have chased paychecks, particularly in making moves to China. I'm never going to begrudge a guy taking life changing money.

hamsamwich
Post #50
Monday February 11, 2019 2:49pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,026
If Donovan had Bradley's dedication to the game, or the chip on the shoulder and desire to prove to people he could play- we would've had a fantastic player.

You can't blame a guy for not having every quality to be the absolute best. It's on our youth coaches to do better with the better athletes. Coached by his father the legend Bob Bradley - Michael Bradley got every ounce of talent and ability that he physically had and maximized that. Like I said, to me, guys like Donovan who have everything and don't care to maximize their talents are the true losers. It sucks for Michael Bradley he was surrounded by the "lost generation" when he was the veteran player. I can recall the best years of the national team on a consistent basis Bradley was the young gun surrounded by guys who could all play.

I'm pretty sure the American fan knows we lack athletically in soccer because we are all used to watching the other sports where the best athletes all play. It's no secret that's starting to change and why everyone is so excited over the Sargents, McKennies, and Bellos that are coming along.

If you want to get on Bradley for the last cycle, fine. I have as well. It was a group effort and led by the dinosaur Arena that many of us said couldn't fix the problem. Blaming Bradley for everything wrong with USA soccer, the MLS or anything else people want to scapegoat onto to him is unfair.

Lilshmike
Post #51
Monday February 11, 2019 3:04pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,087
So again... what does Bradley have to do with this topic?

bjelks
Post #52
Monday February 11, 2019 3:09pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,130
Not blaming Bradley, blaming the federation that trusted a manager that had clear bias against younger players and abroad players.
And Klinsmann wasn't perfect either, tactically he was terrible.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #53
Monday February 11, 2019 3:19pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,087
So... on the topic of young players to watch in the coming cycle, a number of them being dual nationals, its somehow noteworthy to talk about Bradley?

Got it. Makes a ton of sense.

stoked3
Ft Lauderdale, FL
Post #54
Monday February 11, 2019 9:05pm

Joined Oct 2014
Total Posts: 281
Original post from Lilshmike

So... on the topic of young players to watch in the coming cycle, a number of them being dual nationals, its somehow noteworthy to talk about Bradley?

Got it. Makes a ton of sense.


Doesn't make sense from the perspective of talking about young players, it probably makes sense from the perspective of dual nationals choosing the USA or current dual nationals. I think MB rubbed alot of the dual nationals the wrong way and or the treatment of MB rubbed the DN the wrong way. In PART I think this caused issues in the locker room, so if he is going to continue on the Nats not bad to discuss MB. This prob wasn't the thread to discuss but obviously people have strong opinions on MB. He is a polarizing figure in US soccer.

For me, MB was a really good player, his play at Roma was awesome, his play during that time for the Nats was awesome for the most part. When he came back, and to be clear none of us can fault him for chasing money, his play suffered, but he was an automatic starter and call up. I think that is what makes people mad a MB-US soccer like him bc he grew up in MLS, he is Zen, runs around the field and is always in shape. And to be clear he was a baller when younger. But no-one can deny his play suffered when he came back. There were always excuses for MB he is playing out of position or JJ was holding him back or whatever, and maybe some of that is true, but his play for the Nats the last cole of yrs hasn't been great.

Alot of people on this board call me out bc i simply said call in Green to camp, bc he didn't look good the last game he played. I think why people get upset at MB is that same standard is not applied. US soccer and people on this board say well he was great at Roma, and he was, and he was great for the NATs for many yrs. But he has had multiple bad games in a row for the Nats but he was always in the lineup.

I think he still can play a part per se, I do like his work ethic and he does have ability, but if you watched him track back on a plays recently he is too slow for INT play. But he could be good for younger guys to learn from bc i believe he would be a good mentor. Even though I still can't forgive the guy for the TT game, watching him and jozy jog around when we were down a goal was dumbfounding.

I would hope most people could agree.
1. He was a really good Euro club player
2. really good NATs player
3. One of the best USA players of all time
4. He is not a starter for the Nats
5. Should be used as depth for Nats and let the younger guys get mins
6. no one should look down on him for coming back to mls for the money
7. but that choice effected play which should have effected Nats mins
8. We have better options at this point to play his role and no it is not Trapp.
Stoked
Live490
Texas
Post #55
Monday February 11, 2019 10:25pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1,167
I like Bradley and if I had to choose anyone to lead the young crop, id choose him in a heartbeat.

hamsamwich
Post #56
Monday February 11, 2019 10:27pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,026
I used him to illustrate a point that having him out there with the lost generation was him and basically a bunch of scrubs. This next generation, the ones to keep an eye on- they won't be out there alone like Bradley. Adams has a whole army and he can be a real field general. It's fun.

Lilshmike
Post #57
Monday February 11, 2019 10:45pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,087
Original post from stoked3

Doesn't make sense from the perspective of talking about young players, it probably makes sense from the perspective of dual nationals choosing the USA or current dual nationals. I think MB rubbed alot of the dual nationals the wrong way and or the treatment of MB rubbed the DN the wrong way. In PART I think this caused issues in the locker room, so if he is going to continue on the Nats not bad to discuss MB. This prob wasn't the thread to discuss but obviously people have strong opinions on MB. He is a polarizing figure in US soccer.

For me, MB was a really good player, his play at Roma was awesome, his play during that time for the Nats was awesome for the most part. When he came back, and to be clear none of us can fault him for chasing money, his play suffered, but he was an automatic starter and call up. I think that is what makes people mad a MB-US soccer like him bc he grew up in MLS, he is Zen, runs around the field and is always in shape. And to be clear he was a baller when younger. But no-one can deny his play suffered when he came back. There were always excuses for MB he is playing out of position or JJ was holding him back or whatever, and maybe some of that is true, but his play for the Nats the last cole of yrs hasn't been great.

Alot of people on this board call me out bc i simply said call in Green to camp, bc he didn't look good the last game he played. I think why people get upset at MB is that same standard is not applied. US soccer and people on this board say well he was great at Roma, and he was, and he was great for the NATs for many yrs. But he has had multiple bad games in a row for the Nats but he was always in the lineup.

I think he still can play a part per se, I do like his work ethic and he does have ability, but if you watched him track back on a plays recently he is too slow for INT play. But he could be good for younger guys to learn from bc i believe he would be a good mentor. Even though I still can't forgive the guy for the TT game, watching him and jozy jog around when we were down a goal was dumbfounding.

I would hope most people could agree.
1. He was a really good Euro club player
2. really good NATs player
3. One of the best USA players of all time
4. He is not a starter for the Nats
5. Should be used as depth for Nats and let the younger guys get mins
6. no one should look down on him for coming back to mls for the money
7. but that choice effected play which should have effected Nats mins
8. We have better options at this point to play his role and no it is not Trapp.
Candidly, I think a lot of what you said is fairly accurate and hard to debate. Only thing I'd say is your points #4 and #8 are off.

Its not that Bradley isn't a starter... rather, he is no longer an automatic starter/untouchable person from the lineup. It is totally conceivable that he could (or possibly should) start depending on the game, opponent, available players, etc.

Also, we won't know if we legitimately have better options to play his role until our full squad is available and we have competitive games. Not saying that there aren't, but we legitimately have not had a window with a coach with a competitive fixture in order to look at how our team will play when it really matters since we got knocked out of the WC. Also, with a new coach and new system, we legitimately have no idea how some players will fit and how other will not, where one player may or may not play, or what roles those players will take once they are on the field.

Not trying to disagree, but until we get a full roster with an established system in a competitive atmosphere, we can't make that determination because we have no idea how Berhalter is going to utilize our players.

bjelks
Post #58
Tuesday February 12, 2019 12:42am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,130
Original post from Live490

I like Bradley and if I had to choose anyone to lead the young crop, id choose him in a heartbeat.


The same way he led us to failure in qualification? No thanks lol.
The young guys can lead themselves, the best ones have already accomplished more at the club level in their teens than he has in his career.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #59
Tuesday February 12, 2019 12:54am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,130
Original post from stoked3

Doesn't make sense from the perspective of talking about young players, it probably makes sense from the perspective of dual nationals choosing the USA or current dual nationals. I think MB rubbed alot of the dual nationals the wrong way and or the treatment of MB rubbed the DN the wrong way. In PART I think this caused issues in the locker room, so if he is going to continue on the Nats not bad to discuss MB. This prob wasn't the thread to discuss but obviously people have strong opinions on MB. He is a polarizing figure in US soccer.

For me, MB was a really good player, his play at Roma was awesome, his play during that time for the Nats was awesome for the most part. When he came back, and to be clear none of us can fault him for chasing money, his play suffered, but he was an automatic starter and call up. I think that is what makes people mad a MB-US soccer like him bc he grew up in MLS, he is Zen, runs around the field and is always in shape. And to be clear he was a baller when younger. But no-one can deny his play suffered when he came back. There were always excuses for MB he is playing out of position or JJ was holding him back or whatever, and maybe some of that is true, but his play for the Nats the last cole of yrs hasn't been great.

Alot of people on this board call me out bc i simply said call in Green to camp, bc he didn't look good the last game he played. I think why people get upset at MB is that same standard is not applied. US soccer and people on this board say well he was great at Roma, and he was, and he was great for the NATs for many yrs. But he has had multiple bad games in a row for the Nats but he was always in the lineup.

I think he still can play a part per se, I do like his work ethic and he does have ability, but if you watched him track back on a plays recently he is too slow for INT play. But he could be good for younger guys to learn from bc i believe he would be a good mentor. Even though I still can't forgive the guy for the TT game, watching him and jozy jog around when we were down a goal was dumbfounding.

I would hope most people could agree.
1. He was a really good Euro club player
2. really good NATs player
3. One of the best USA players of all time
4. He is not a starter for the Nats
5. Should be used as depth for Nats and let the younger guys get mins
6. no one should look down on him for coming back to mls for the money
7. but that choice effected play which should have effected Nats mins
8. We have better options at this point to play his role and no it is not Trapp.


I would take #4 a little further and say without nepotism, he isn't in the 23.
There's no logical explanation to call him over Bundesliga starter (Morales) and healthy D Will.
Hell MLS fans have stated Canouse has ran him off the field.

#6 As a football fan, I'll look down on anyone who takes money over competition in their prime years when considering their legacy. World Class players like Henry, Ballack, Beckham, Drogba came here in their early to mid 30s when they are done at the international level.

#5 refer to #4.

I agree with the rest.
goalsense
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