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Post #31
Thursday January 3, 2019 11:32pm

Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts: 130
Original post from tylercocinas

Why would the hiring of Berhalter have them questioning their commitment? And are we talking YNT players? Because Berhalter hasn't done shit yet. Several months ago, I was lucky enough to have a few conversations with the family of player who switched and they hinted that there would be more defections from the US in the future.


The conversation was specifically about youth and a few of those undecided. The issue is you guys are looking at it from the wrong angle. These dual nationals aren't looking at the NT program and their future in the same way that you are. As an up and coming young player, they're looking for a well respected coach that has connections to top teams in Europe.

JK was a coach that was well connected and made moves to get NT players training stints in Europe and possibly worked on potential deals. Unfortunately it's about personal growth as a player and personal success. Berhalter doesn't have the prestige of a high level coach and is definitely not considered one. These players are also looking to play for a high level coach/manager they highly respect. It's not just a few of us on here that don't respect Berhalter, it's the actual players as well.

Lilshmike
Post #32
Friday January 4, 2019 12:11am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,177
Original post from Spank

The conversation was specifically about youth and a few of those undecided. The issue is you guys are looking at it from the wrong angle. These dual nationals aren't looking at the NT program and their future in the same way that you are. As an up and coming young player, they're looking for a well respected coach that has connections to top teams in Europe.

JK was a coach that was well connected and made moves to get NT players training stints in Europe and possibly worked on potential deals. Unfortunately it's about personal growth as a player and personal success. Berhalter doesn't have the prestige of a high level coach and is definitely not considered one. These players are also looking to play for a high level coach/manager they highly respect. It's not just a few of us on here that don't respect Berhalter, it's the actual players as well.
Good point.

Not disagreeing, but the player has to be good enough to go to Europe first and foremost. After that, sure, the head coach and his connections may be helpful, but that is mainly if that head coach thinks the player can fit into their overall plan. Having a coach with good connections doesn't matter too much if the coach doesn't see them having a role with their NT, call them up to develop that relationship where they will open their network, and vouch for them.

Not only that, but head coaches are temporary in the international game. They typically last 1 cycle. For young kids, putting all of their eggs in one basket because they like the current coach - knowing that the coach will likely leave in 4 years or less, way before their career comes to an end, and think that that coach will help them get to Europe - is a bit short sighted IMO.

Again, not disagreeing, but idk if it passes the sniff test for me. If a player is good enough to play in Europe and really wants to go over there, then they should be able to accomplish that without much help from their NT manager. Certainly there are exceptions and different rules for different leagues. And sure, the connections help (like with JK for Yedlin and Morris), but... idk. Never really thought of it that way, and not sure if the NT head coach and his connections would really have much of an impact (if any) on the careers of more than only a small number of players.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #33
Friday January 4, 2019 9:56pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,356
Hearing Llanez is close to signing with Wolfsburg.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #34
Saturday January 5, 2019 7:33pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,356
FC Dallas and Bayern Munich have finalized a transfer fee for Chris Richards. Good for Dallas and Richards. More MLS teams need to sign their young players like this, so they don't watch these players leave for free.

navi8132
New York
Post #35
Saturday January 5, 2019 7:40pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 3,099
///

hamsamwich
Post #36
Sunday January 6, 2019 3:26am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,139
Yea the sell on clause really makes it a good deal for Dallas. When MLS switched up the transfer rules to allow the developing club (this case Dallas) more say and revenue in the transfers out of the single entity MLS- we thought it might be better for the HG players. Some of the lesser MLS clubs like Chicago and San Jose better take notice or risk losing a Las or a Fuentes for nothing.

Lilshmike
Post #37
Friday February 8, 2019 5:33pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,177
Figured this was noteworthy given the conversation that we had on this thread (courtesy of Spank)

http://www.espn.com/soccer/mexico/story/37694...

Tata basically saying that he is looking to use fully Mexican players for their national team and build/identify a culture. For all the talk of our program being biased against dual nationals, hispanics, etc, it seems like Tata is doing the exact same thing that our manager/program have gotten roasted for...

Know Nothing
Post #38
Friday February 8, 2019 9:50pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,617
Well he has the luxury of knowing that the majority of his best players were born in Mexico and their playing culture is a lot more defined than ours. Besides, those that are naturalized have been playing in their league for a few years so they would know the culture as well.

Our pool has a lot of players that seem to be at the same level however we tend to define them by where they play in the world. We have no real playing culture, though we do tend to be best at the counter attack. Our best players, though born here, do not play here. They play in the same leagues with others that were not born here but can represent us. So it is easy to say that if X was born here and plays in this good league then Y who also plays in this league but was not born here but can play for us must be equally as good and should represent us.

And given how our roster of mostly MLS'rs did not get the job done in T&T, it casts a doubt over the quality of MLS players.

Lilshmike
Post #39
Saturday February 9, 2019 12:07am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,177
I have to respectfully call you out on the T&T game. I understand what you're saying, but that is low hanging fruit...

European guys failed to get the job done against Mexico at home.
European guys failed to get the job done against Costa Rica... twice.

There was a 50%-50% split (European vs MLS) in those games, and a tie in any one of them would have sent us through to the WC without a playoff.

Not only that, but the only way we were getting knocked out of qualifying was if we lost, Honduras beat Mexico, AND Panama beat Costa Rica. The latter two were extremely unlikely to both happen. Both happened.

Boiling our failure to qualifying down to one game, then claiming that it casts doubt on the quality of our domestic league due to the players involved in the game, is a stretch tbh. That's an extremely narrow view of the circumstances, an outrageous oversimplification of the situation, and its a grasp for low hanging fruit...

Lilshmike
Post #40
Saturday February 9, 2019 12:28am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,177
The point of the post was that there has been concern that a number of dual nationals may choose to not represent the USA. There has been a lot of talk about how the US allegedly alienates players from dual hispanic nationalities. There has also been talk of about how "creating a culture and identity that is American" will turn players away from wanting to represent us. How the idea of creating a culture and identity is somehow provocative.

Mexico is in essence doing the same thing... the same thing that the US program has been slammed for (on this site, others, and media outlets). The reality is that it seems to be a real non-factor in the discussion, frankly.

Not an attempt to start anything polarizing. At the end of the day, players are going to choose who they represent for a number of reasons (family, playing time, the ability to go to a WC, etc) that are personal and out of the control of US Soccer.

hamsamwich
Post #41
Saturday February 9, 2019 4:25pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,139
@lilshmike- Michael Bradley blew that opening game against Mexico to start the cycle. His lazy tackling allowed the first goal 100%. And just before the Marquez winner, maybe two minutes before, a very selfish Bradley either didn't see an obvious pass to a wide open wood on a 2 v 1 breakaway, or he went for glory like I think and badly slipped and scuffed a weak shot. That play was about the former il generale not seeing the play to a wide open Bob Wood (this pattern has continued for the better part of that cycle and the last year, where Wood hasn't had teammates to get him the damn ball in a scoring position). But not because Bradley is an MLS guy or a "European guy". Hell, Bradley is ultra European. He played in all the leagues bar France. But when we needed to set a tone he didn't have it by himself. The "European" Klinsmann (who I like from a psychological standpoint) didn't have the tactics and system you'd figure a European would have. So now we have an MLS guy trying to fix the problem. And that's OK.

The thread was about players to keep an eye on. And that's the point. We now have a well of talent to go to, instead of relying on an expired milk Michael Bradley to do and fix everything. As I just noted he's not capable of doing that. But we should all respect Bradley's career it was fantastic and he has more to give as a substitute, mentor and practice player. He's always been a soccer genius. But now we have 15-20 geniuses coming up that are more athletic. Good times.

Lilshmike
Post #42
Saturday February 9, 2019 4:50pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,177
Sorry, but what does Bradley have to do with this?

hamsamwich
Post #43
Sunday February 10, 2019 1:18am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,139
He's the quintessential MLS vs Europe guy. He fits both descriptions depending on your argument. And he currently plays in MLS, "dragging" down the national team in many people's view. But the point is he was the talent whether he played in MLS or holland or Italy. He wasn't surrounded with enough of it last cycle. I want him out for this cycle but the collective talent around him is much greater than last time out. We now have ten Michael Bradleys of the Heerenveen vintage and that's the only way to move forward. One guy can't win in international soccer look at Messi its a team game.

Alex Mendez has a much better chance to be successful than Bradley with the national team but that doesn't mean he himself is better. But his teammates won't be Clarence Goodson or Alejandro bedoya.

bjelks
Post #44
Sunday February 10, 2019 3:56am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,229
I just want to add that what Pulisic, Mckennie, Adams, even Sarg are doing and have done at top tier leagues at ages 18-20, surpasses what Bradley did and could do in his prime. They're better athletes, they're more technical, they're more ambitious.
goalsense
venicebeachbull
Post #45
Sunday February 10, 2019 4:43am

Joined Jun 2012
Total Posts: 131
I believe Michael Bradley will coach the Nats, probably in the next decade.

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