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2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #1
Tuesday December 11, 2018 10:45pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,178
With Horvath rounding back into form it looks like GK is set to be A) solidified at 1 and 2 and B) it looks like we are set up for a GK duel to see who the #1 will be for the Gold Cup.

Really excited for Steffen/ Horvath as the 2.0 of Keller/Fiedler.

hamsamwich
Post #2
Wednesday December 12, 2018 3:28am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,984
Horvath is that technician whereas Steffen plays with more confidence. If horvath can get some more composure I think it's his job to lose.

Lilshmike
Post #3
Wednesday December 12, 2018 3:22pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,068
Steffen appears to have the 1 spot right now. Also, considering his club coach is now the national team coach, this is to be expected.

Both are showing promise, and both have different styles of play. You could consider Horvath as "traditional" and Steffen as "new-age".

Horvath has a tendency to make the occasional blunder that leads to either a goal or an uncomfortably close call. If he can get break that habit, then he should warrant some looks from bigger clubs than Brugge either this upcoming summer or next.

Steffen has tried to adopt the newer style of Neuer-esque play that seems to be attractive to coaches now - the 5th defender type where they are good with their feet, play a high line, and can distribute the ball with their feet well. Steffen's problem though is that he seems too focused on that aspect of his game. He gets a little over-confident with the ball at his feet at times and doesn't distribute quickly, allowing pressure to build towards him then making a poor decision to get rid of it OR he puts a teammate in a bad position by giving them the ball under pressure or a bad spot.

The problem is that skills aren't everything. Neither seems to stand out with respect to commanding the area. I posted about this in a previous thread, but the starting goalkeeper needs to be a bully out on the field and bark at their teammates to do what they want - and if they don't do what they're told, then the goalie needs to rip their heads off like a maniac. Is the keeper's way or the highway, and they must dominate the box.

This is what Tim Howard was great at. Neither have shown that they have this type of presence in the area. Horvath has a little more than Steffen, but its still not where it needs to be.

Pstkeeper
Post #4
Wednesday December 12, 2018 4:30pm

Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts: 9
Horvath has been very good at commanding his area in the past month and a half. Are you insinuating that Howard was great at this when he was 23 years old or later in his career? Neither Horvath or Steffen is a finished product.

Lilshmike
Post #5
Wednesday December 12, 2018 5:43pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,068
Original post from Pstkeeper

Horvath has been very good at commanding his area in the past month and a half. Are you insinuating that Howard was great at this when he was 23 years old or later in his career? Neither Horvath or Steffen is a finished product.
I'm not insinuating anything. Howard developed that ability over his career, but certainly in the mid to later stages of his career it became noticeable.

Its clear that neither Steffen nor Horvath are a finished product. I'm just pointing out where it appears they need to improve.

Horvath has had a good run of form. However, a month and half is not a large enough sample size to make any conclusions. He needs to keep it up, because due to Steffen's City move, Horvath may find himself in a prime position to overtake Steffen in the pecking order.

Lilshmike
Post #6
Wednesday December 12, 2018 5:52pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,068
The other thing at play here is Steffen's transfer to Man City. Honestly, I think this is a bad move for him and it doesn't really make sense to me.

Transfer to Man City happening, but hes staying in Columbus until the summer while they can get a work permit figured out. This means that Steffen will likely start and play in pretty much every USMNT game from here through the Gold Cup in order to meet the requirements of getting that work permit.

But Man City owns NYCFC... so why didn't they just loan him there instead of having him play for a competitor in their same conference of the league? Maybe not to disrupt his position or role with his current club? I don't know, it just seems odd.

If they were planning on loaning him out in the first place, why wouldn't they have sent him to another affiliated club in Europe where he could start and play immediately? MLS is in the offseason now, he will start playing again in the back half of City's season, then get shipped over to City when they enter their offseason... basically getting limited games from here until he goes to them. That doesn't make sense to me.

When Steffen does arrive at City, Claudio Bravo will be coming back from injury and Ederson will be the solidified starter. A healthy Bravo is better than Steffen. Ederson is only 2 years older than Steffen, is better, and is firmly established at City. So unless Steffen goes out on loan, he is going to sit the bench with virtually no chance of getting games outside of League Cup and FA Cup matches. That just isn't good enough for him at this point in his development.

Goalkeeper is not like field positions. Its not like there is a huge difference playing in Portugal vs France vs England etc. As long as a goalkeeper is playing regularly and getting in games... either you're stopping shots or you're not.

Considering that City is buying Steffen, putting him in position where he won't be seeing (relatively speaking) many games from now until the beginning of next season... when they already have 2 guys firmly ahead of him and he seems to be surplus... whats the play here?

The only way I can rationalize it is that City bought Steffen for marketing purposes and plan to use him a trade bait. I feel like they are using him as an investment by buying him now so they can sell him later at a higher price - never truly intending for him to be more than a backup for them. And MLS was probably in favor of the deal because City is already deep in their back pockets due to NYCFC and they may want to use it as a PR opportunity. Again, it's just odd and I don't really get it. And maybe Steffen is getting paid and doesn't care? Who knows.

Pstkeeper
Post #7
Wednesday December 12, 2018 6:41pm

Joined Dec 2017
Total Posts: 9
I agree a month and a half is not a long time, but it's a start and it has been against some great competition and in some pretty high powered games. Your opinion on Steffen's move is interesting. The assumption that the decision to play Steffen in all the Men's National Team games because Berhalter was his coach at the Crew and he needs them in order to qualify for a work permit in the U.K. is bothersome, disappointing and disturbing. Let's hope he has more integrity than that.

Know Nothing
Post #8
Wednesday December 12, 2018 8:26pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,556
Of course Steffen was bought for marketing purposes. He will recoup the money they spent in loan fees and subsequent sale in a few years, as well as shirt sales on their next US tour.

However, he does have a shot at being 2nd choice next year..Bravo is getting older and has been shambolic at times. Unfortunately, he will only be a stopgap and will probably end up out on loan for years 2-4 of his contract as City also have a decent youth keeper coming through the ranks.

And a permit should not be a problem even if he does not play every US match from here until the move...he is going to a big club and they usually win their appeal.

One conspiracy theory...they bought Steffen to help NYCFC's chances of winning the east. There is no way Columbus would have agreed to sell him only to be loaned back to a rival...it is probably stipulated in the agreement.

Best of luck to Horvath as things seem to be stacked against him. Still, he is in a good position.

Lilshmike
Post #9
Wednesday December 12, 2018 11:39pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,068
Original post from Know Nothing

Of course Steffen was bought for marketing purposes. He will recoup the money they spent in loan fees and subsequent sale in a few years, as well as shirt sales on their next US tour.

However, he does have a shot at being 2nd choice next year..Bravo is getting older and has been shambolic at times. Unfortunately, he will only be a stopgap and will probably end up out on loan for years 2-4 of his contract as City also have a decent youth keeper coming through the ranks.

And a permit should not be a problem even if he does not play every US match from here until the move...he is going to a big club and they usually win their appeal.

One conspiracy theory...they bought Steffen to help NYCFC's chances of winning the east. There is no way Columbus would have agreed to sell him only to be loaned back to a rival...it is probably stipulated in the agreement.

Best of luck to Horvath as things seem to be stacked against him. Still, he is in a good position.
Good point

hamsamwich
Post #10
Thursday December 13, 2018 3:05pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,984
Between now and the summer - there are only the March friendlies for Horvath to play in. So he won't miss much action. As for Horvath maybe he gets transferred for a similar fee if he keeps it up. Then he'd be at a new club and everyone will say for him to go early and get integrated rather than be Steffens backup at the GC. It's all up in the air what's important is a solid second half at Club Brugge... he did shut out Monaco, Dortmund and Atletico Madrid. Surely the scouts saw those and the USA v Italy game.

Know Nothing
Post #11
Thursday December 13, 2018 3:58pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,556
Original post from hamsamwich

Between now and the summer - there are only the March friendlies for Horvath to play in. So he won't miss much action. As for Horvath maybe he gets transferred for a similar fee if he keeps it up. Then he'd be at a new club and everyone will say for him to go early and get integrated rather than be Steffens backup at the GC. It's all up in the air what's important is a solid second half at Club Brugge... he did shut out Monaco, Dortmund and Atletico Madrid. Surely the scouts saw those and the USA v Italy game.


And they saw the Portugal match as well. Have to take the good with the bad.

To be clear, I am not saying he is not a capable keeper. I am just saying teams that agree to buy him will have to be satisfied they can manage his confidence which seems to be his biggest obstacle.

Lilshmike
Post #12
Thursday December 13, 2018 5:04pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,068
Original post from Know Nothing

And they saw the Portugal match as well. Have to take the good with the bad.

To be clear, I am not saying he is not a capable keeper. I am just saying teams that agree to buy him will have to be satisfied they can manage his confidence which seems to be his biggest obstacle.
Good point.

Worth noting that of all of the keepers in our pool at the moment, Horvath definitely seems to be the best positioned for long-term career trajectory. Steffen's move to City has definitely throws a wrench in things on his side.

Best case scenario for him would be a situation like Courtois and Chelsea sending him on a 3 year loan to Atletico. If Steffen can get a long-term loan out from City to a decent club where he will start and play, it could work out. Otherwise, his progression may stunt and he'll make his career as being a back-up.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #13
Thursday December 13, 2018 6:17pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,178
Just excited to see two very good Keepers emerging again. Horvath has earned his spot back at Brugge and his performances the past two months reflect his talent.

It's good for Steffen to have a legitimate contender. It will only make those two better.


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