RECAPS
EXTRA TIME
YANKS ABROAD LOCKER ROOM
 
bjelks
Post #16
Tuesday December 4, 2018 5:11pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 796
Original post from Lilshmike

Dude I've been saying this on the boards for months... Tyler Adams.


That's brilliant, let's just take our best dual winner, gap filler, and field coverer out of the position where he can impact the game the most.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #17
Tuesday December 4, 2018 5:27pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 796
Original post from Lilshmike

We have been playing that over the past year. It hasn't been working with our players. The problem isn't Trapp either, the problem is that we don't have good enough creative players up front in the attacking third to create chances. Pulisic can't do it all on his own - and no matter who plays ST, if they don't get the ball in good enough areas then they will not be able to produce goals. Its as simple as that.

We tried the "double 6 pivot" as you've labeled it before... with Jermaine Jones and Michael Bradley before the 2014 WC. Both of those players at that time were far better than any player we have in CM now. That didn't work, and it didn't enable us to create enough chances up front... and thats with better attacking players (Holland Jozy, in-form Johannsson, Dempsey, prime Fabian Johnson, Donovan before being left off the WC roster) than we have now.

I'm with Know Nothing. We have to be realistic about who we have, and right now it just isn't good enough. We are leaking goals, lack possession in the middle, and lack chance creation in the attacking third. Given our current pool, 3CBs and wing backs would likely be our best option until better players emerge.


If I can recall, we've never played a double pivot 6 with 5 mids. I'm also not going to agree that that Bradley and Jones were far better than Adams and Mckennie are now if at all.
At 18, Mckennie was more accomplished in Europe than both. Adams is viewed as the best athlete we've ever had at CM, so I'll respectfully disagree.
And just because something didn't work 5 yrs ago, with 2 guys who are arguably not better doesn't mean they won't work today.

I don't agree that we should knock ideas without trying them especially if they work for the most successful teams in the world.

Maybe if we had a better athlete than Trapp on the field, we could win more duals. Maybe if we played CP in a free role with pure wings we could generate more of an attack.
Gall, Gooch never really got a shot. Amon deserves more of a shot. Holmes hasn't got a shot, Sonora etc
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #18
Tuesday December 4, 2018 5:54pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 870
Original post from bjelks

If I can recall, we've never played a double pivot 6 with 5 mids. I'm also not going to agree that that Bradley and Jones were far better than Adams and Mckennie are now if at all.
At 18, Mckennie was more accomplished in Europe than both. Adams is viewed as the best athlete we've ever had at CM, so I'll respectfully disagree.
And just because something didn't work 5 yrs ago, with 2 guys who are arguably not better doesn't mean they won't work today.

I don't agree that we should knock ideas without trying them especially if they work for the most successful teams in the world.

Maybe if we had a better athlete than Trapp on the field, we could win more duals. Maybe if we played CP in a free role with pure wings we could generate more of an attack.
Gall, Gooch never really got a shot. Amon deserves more of a shot. Holmes hasn't got a shot, Sonora etc
You can't seriously make the argument that McKennie was more accomplished at age 18 than both Jones and Bradley were in the year 2013/2014... thats some homer Euro fanboy talk if I've ever heard some.

Jones was a consistent starter for years in the Bundesliga, had played in the Premier League, multiple Champions League and Europa League games, and had 3 caps for Germany...

Bradley, after years of playing in the Eredivisie, Bundesliga, and Serie A - not to mention the fan-labeled "General" of Roma at the time...

I mean... come on now... this really isn't a debate.

Know Nothing
Post #19
Tuesday December 4, 2018 6:07pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,476
Original post from bjelks

@knownothing I normally agree with you, but I don't like the 5 back idea. We have 2 dynamic #6s that can give us all the cover we need.
I think we need to focus on technical attacking players to complement CP in midfield.


Well, it depends how you look at it. It is only a back 5 if we are hunkered down in a defensive mode. None of our outside backs are suited to that.

I was thinking a 3-4-3 (or 3-4-2-1)with Adams and McKennie in the middle and the wingbacks that act as wingers. Pulisic and Weah can operate freely to exploit space and play off of Wood, Sargent, Nova, or even Jozy.

If we get caught upfield there will at least be three back defending to lessen the impact.

My thinking would be

Steffen
EPB, Brooks, Miazga
Yedlin/Cannon, Mckennie, Adams, Robinson
Weah, Pulisic
Forward

Lilshmike
Post #20
Tuesday December 4, 2018 6:50pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 870
Original post from Know Nothing

Well, it depends how you look at it. It is only a back 5 if we are hunkered down in a defensive mode. None of our outside backs are suited to that.

I was thinking a 3-4-3 (or 3-4-2-1)with Adams and McKennie in the middle and the wingbacks that act as wingers. Pulisic and Weah can operate freely to exploit space and play off of Wood, Sargent, Nova, or even Jozy.

If we get caught upfield there will at least be three back defending to lessen the impact.

My thinking would be

Steffen
EPB, Brooks, Miazga
Yedlin/Cannon, Mckennie, Adams, Robinson
Weah, Pulisic
Forward
This is spot on. We would need 1 CM to act as a 6 with the other to act as an 8. And with this formation, or have 1 CAM and 2 STs. Would all depend on personnel. I like the idea, but I'd probably make a couple personnel changes.

Honestly the debate should be at LB. Can anyone legitimately say that Robinson has looked like a capable starter? Hes looked shaky at best. Moore, a RB playing sporadically at a lower level team, looked better in that spot than Robinson (in the last game at least).

Fabian Johnson has basically ruled out that he will be available for international duty. But if Berhalter can convince him to play, he should occupy that LWB spot.

Not only that, but we should be doing absolutely everything we can to try and convince Toljan to play for us...

bjelks
Post #21
Tuesday December 4, 2018 7:33pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 796
Original post from Lilshmike

You can't seriously make the argument that McKennie was more accomplished at age 18 than both Jones and Bradley were in the year 2013/2014... thats some homer Euro fanboy talk if I've ever heard some.

Jones was a consistent starter for years in the Bundesliga, had played in the Premier League, multiple Champions League and Europa League games, and had 3 caps for Germany...

Bradley, after years of playing in the Eredivisie, Bundesliga, and Serie A - not to mention the fan-labeled "General" of Roma at the time...

I mean... come on now... this really isn't a debate.


At 18, Mckennie became a reserve bench player on a top half Bundesliga team.
Excuse me, at 19 he was a starter on a team that finished 2nd in Bundesliga.
He scored his first Champs league goal at 20. He's essentially a phenom lol.

Jones who I love didn't become a regular Bundesliga player until 24 with Frankfurt.
Jones wasn't a Champs League regular until 31.

Bradley became a regular on a bottom Bundesliga team at 22.
At 26 at the height of his career, Bradley was a reserve bench player for Roma.
Mckennie has a very different pedigree and trajectory than both.
It's easy to see that he's better than both right now.
Adams could be a Bundesliga regular by 20.

You're right it's not a debate.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #22
Tuesday December 4, 2018 8:29pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 870
Original post from bjelks

At 18, Mckennie became a reserve bench player on a top half Bundesliga team.
Excuse me, at 19 he was a starter on a team that finished 2nd in Bundesliga.
He scored his first Champs league goal at 20. He's essentially a phenom lol.

Jones who I love didn't become a regular Bundesliga player until 24 with Frankfurt.
Jones wasn't a Champs League regular until 31.

Bradley became a regular on a bottom Bundesliga team at 22.
At 26 at the height of his career, Bradley was a reserve bench player for Roma.
Mckennie has a very different pedigree and trajectory than both.
It's easy to see that he's better than both right now.
Adams could be a Bundesliga regular by 20.

You're right it's not a debate.
I'm sorry, but you're you're (surprisingly) wrong. Jones was playing in the Champions League when he was a regular starter at Schalke in 2007/2008 - when they finished 3rd in Bundesliga and made it to the Champions League Quarter Finals. He did this not at 31 - but at 26. When was the last time McKennie played in the Champions League Quarter Finals?

Not only that, but McKennie is nowhere near good enough to make the German national team - something that Jones was able to do and earn 3 caps.

Bradley had years of top flight experience in multiple leagues, and had played in a WC. Again, this is greater and more established than one season of Bundesliga play.

If you want to say that McKennie appears to have a brighter future than either of those two, then fine, thats a fair argument to make. But come on now... making the claim that one season of Bundesliga football makes someone more established than years of top flight football in multiple top flight European leagues, Champions League football, and WC experience - is just absurd.

Also, scoring a goal at a young-ish age in the Champions League doesn't make someone a phenom. Thats a flawed argument. For the record, the youngest ever goal scorer in Champions League was a guy by the name of Peter Ofori-Quaye. Yeah... nobody has every really heard of him because he ended up being a nobody. Just because one looks promising early on, does not mean that one will be a world class player later on.

I'd rather not keep the back and forth going on this either. Sometimes you just can't argue with stupid. For the sake of everyone on the boards I'll end it here.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #23
Tuesday December 4, 2018 8:59pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 9,840
McKennie is 20 years old. Why are we even comparing a 20 yet starting out his career to Jones at 26?

McKennie is on a very similar track to Jones.

Of course McKennie wouldn't make the German team. He isn't German. Jones was a dual national.

Lilshmike
Post #24
Tuesday December 4, 2018 9:12pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 870
Original post from 2tone

McKennie is 20 years old. Why are we even comparing a 20 yet starting out his career to Jones at 26?

McKennie is on a very similar track to Jones.

Of course McKennie wouldn't make the German team. He isn't German. Jones was a dual national.
Because apparently McKennie at 18 was more established in Europe than either Bradley or Jones ever were...

hamsamwich
Post #25
Tuesday December 4, 2018 9:16pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 2,768
But who else besides Dest can pass move and play defense? And even he is still a little bit away from the full team. I've seen Polster play there and provide something. Not necessarily Adams or McKennie but I can definitely see "anyone" put out there by Berhalter...

bjelks
Post #26
Tuesday December 4, 2018 10:44pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 796
Original post from Lilshmike

I'm sorry, but you're you're (surprisingly) wrong. Jones was playing in the Champions League when he was a regular starter at Schalke in 2007/2008 - when they finished 3rd in Bundesliga and made it to the Champions League Quarter Finals. He did this not at 31 - but at 26. When was the last time McKennie played in the Champions League Quarter Finals?

Not only that, but McKennie is nowhere near good enough to make the German national team - something that Jones was able to do and earn 3 caps.

Bradley had years of top flight experience in multiple leagues, and had played in a WC. Again, this is greater and more established than one season of Bundesliga play.

If you want to say that McKennie appears to have a brighter future than either of those two, then fine, thats a fair argument to make. But come on now... making the claim that one season of Bundesliga football makes someone more established than years of top flight football in multiple top flight European leagues, Champions League football, and WC experience - is just absurd.

Also, scoring a goal at a young-ish age in the Champions League doesn't make someone a phenom. Thats a flawed argument. For the record, the youngest ever goal scorer in Champions League was a guy by the name of Peter Ofori-Quaye. Yeah... nobody has every really heard of him because he ended up being a nobody. Just because one looks promising early on, does not mean that one will be a world class player later on.

I'd rather not keep the back and forth going on this either. Sometimes you just can't argue with stupid. For the sake of everyone on the boards I'll end it here.


So at 26 Jermaine Jones, was doing what Mckennie is doing at 20, starting in Champs league knockout phases. You are proving my pt sir lol. Again Mckennie compared to Bradley and Jones is a phenom lol.
You said more established. I said more accomplished. At 19 Mckennie, started on a team that finished 2nd in Bundesliga. Who gives a shit how old Mbappe is, he's argunoy the most talented fwd in the world. What you fail to understand is due to Mckennie's age and trajectory, his floor is above Bradley and Jones ceiling.
Bradley and

I don't care about Bradley playing in WCs, Mckennie would've played in one at 19, if Bradley and Arena didn't fuck it up for everyone. We play in a shitty region, have a shallow pool, and Bradley's dad was coach lol.

World class player my ass, Bradley and Jones were not playing In knockout phases of Champs League League at 20. Bradley and Jones at their very best never started for a team that finished 2nd in a top league. Jones started on a team that finished 3rd and Bradley was a reserve bench player on a Roma team that finished 2nd.
goalsense
camparkinson
Post #27
Tuesday December 4, 2018 10:55pm

Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts: 292
I'm confused... is McKennie, Jones or Bradley is your starting RB in 2022?

Lilshmike
Post #28
Tuesday December 4, 2018 11:02pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 870
None, it's actually Josh Sargent

Lilshmike
Post #29
Tuesday December 4, 2018 11:24pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 870
But actually, looking at the pool (at least at the moment), you can probably break it into the following:

Tier 1 - RBs who are starters/consistent names now who will likely still be in the picture come 2022
Tier 2 - RBs who are not consistent names, but who have proven experience and could possibly be around in 2022
Tier 3 - young RBs who are in the pipeline who (fingers crossed) can develop and be potential legitimate options come 2022
Tier 4 - guys who aren't exactly RBs but who may be able to play there depending on how things shape up in 2022

Tier 1 - Yedlin
Tier 2 - Chandler (possibly Johnson)
Tier 3 - Cannon, Moore, Dest, Olosunde, Lima, Payne, Lindsey, Danilo Acosta
Tier 4 - Johnson, Adams, Lennon, Lichaj, Ventura Alvarado

Maybe there are a few random youth guys here and there that were overlooked, but that list is fairly accurate and all encompassing (at this point in time).

blaise213
Post #30
Wednesday December 5, 2018 12:38am

Joined Sep 2012
Total Posts: 2,710
@ 2tone

You need to present me with a Yanks Abroad I told y'all Award (A Ward)

I was calling for Sergino Dest for the September friendlies in my roster selection

Page 2 of 3
« Previous 1 2 3  Next »

The final stretch of the English league season is upon us, with several Americans on the verge of relegation with their teams.
RECENT POSTS
Tale of Two Young Yanks in Europe
Wagner Nears Premier League Goal
YA lineup prediction vs. T&T
vom Steeg lands at Fortuna