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bjelks
Post #121
Tuesday March 19, 2019 1:45pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,348
Bradley hasn't helped the program in 5 yrs, matter of fact he's been a liability for the past 5 yrs.
In any other country, he would've been replaced yrs ago and especially after Qualifying failure.
This is the definition of white privilege in America.
Tell me another defensive midfielder at the international level that's terrible at defending the midfield.
goalsense
Spank
661
Post #122
Tuesday March 19, 2019 2:15pm

Joined Feb 2013
Total Posts: 132
Original post from bjelks

Bradley hasn't helped the program in 5 yrs, matter of fact he's been a liability for the past 5 yrs.
In any other country, he would've been replaced yrs ago and especially after Qualifying failure.
This is the definition of white privilege in America.
Tell me another defensive midfielder at the international level that's terrible at defending the midfield.


I agree with you about 90% of the time but I just can't get on this racism/white privilege stuff. We aren't seeing white privilege, we're seeing MLS privilege.

bjelks
Post #123
Tuesday March 19, 2019 2:38pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,348
Original post from Spank

I agree with you about 90% of the time but I just can't get on this racism/white privilege stuff. We aren't seeing white privilege, we're seeing MLS privilege.


Who is MLS ran by?
Garner, SUM, and other powerful white men
What is the biggest problem with USSF?
Pay to play system, lack of access to people of color, inner city kids
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #124
Tuesday March 19, 2019 2:58pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,271
Original post from bjelks

Who is MLS ran by?
Garner, SUM, and other powerful white men
What is the biggest problem with USSF?
Pay to play system, lack of access to people of color, inner city kids
Dude... what are you talking about? What on earth does any of this have to do with Tyler Adams?

Seriously, your nonsense is next level and your rants bloat the boards with paranoid, ill informed, ridiculous crap.

Its not like its every once in a while - its legitimately on an everyday basis. You genuinely seem to have some personal issues man. Its starting to become almost sad seeing this stuff...

Lilshmike
Post #125
Tuesday March 19, 2019 3:09pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,271
Original post from Lilshmike

Wouldn't you want our most impactful player defensively playing in... defense?

Its not always about putting out the best players in their best positions... its about putting out the best 11 collectively. The whole needs to be greater than the sum of the parts...

As we have seen from the new system, the RB role shifts to CM when we are on the attack. I genuinely don't know if there is a person in our entire pool better suited to play this role than Adams.

Fabian Johnson is a natural LM, but has played LB, RB, and LM - and some of our best performances came when he was not playing LM. Making the argument that Adams, as a CM, should not play RB because it is not his natural position is like making the argument that Pulisic should not play CAM/CF/LW because it is not his natural position. If you claim for one to happen, and shame the other, your contradicting yourself and presenting a hypocritical argument.

Adams playing as a lone CDM is fine, but remember, hes short. He is 5'9". Think he is going to be able to provide any type of help in the air defensively? No. There is something to be said about height in that role. The main question about Wil Trapp is his size. He isn't very tall/strong either. People focus on speed and athleticism... but that isn't everything and is a very narrow view of a position/player.

Let's imagine we continue playing in Berhalter's system from this previous camp. We have 3 CMS - a designated CDM, box to box, and CAM.

Adam's would play either the CDM or box to box role. McKennie would also play one of those roles. Its very likely that neither would be the CAM. The CDM does not shift. The CAM does not shift. The box to box though is different... when we are on defense, the box to box guy is playing as a CDM, but when we get the ball in transition and move forward, that player moves to the attack - while the RB simultaneously moves to fill the gap left by that box to box player in the midfield.

Candidly, if we are talking about the CDM role, I would say that McKennie is better suited for that position than Adams. If we are talking about the box to box role, I would say McKennie is also better suited to the role. So the question becomes... who would play where?

Unpopular opinion, but I think Bradley may still be our best option in that CDM role... not because he is the best, but because the players who could play it would serve the team as a whole better if they are in a different role. By this, I am referring to McKennie. For the following example, I am going to assume Bradley is in the starting lineup. Bradley holding, McKennie as the box to box, with Adams out at RB makes sense. When we are defending, McKennie drops to CDM alongside Bradley and Adams is playing in the back at RB. When we transition to attack, Mckennie moves forward and Adams shifts to fill the gap left by McKennie next to Bradley. If we get caught on a counter... well, Adams is in the middle in the CDM role.

The main point is, we have guys who can play those CM positions and roles almost as good as (if not better than) Adams. But if Adams plays out at RB... he might actually be better suited for the position than anyone else in the pool and may help out our team more by playing in that position than say, Yedlin or Lima or Cannon. Having Adams in CM may not be a big improvement over another player (McKennie), but could be a large improvement in RB over others. The whole of the team may be greater with Adams at RB than without.
I've been saying this for months...

Adams at RB makes sense. Berhalter stating that he likes him at RB makes sense.

Not trying to spike the football here, but think outside the box people. This shouldn't be controversial.

cudevil
Post #126
Tuesday March 19, 2019 3:15pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 984
Original post from Lilshmike

I've been saying this for months...

Adams at RB makes sense. Berhalter stating that he likes him at RB makes sense.

Not trying to spike the football here, but think outside the box people. This shouldn't be controversial.


It really doesn't make sense. Adams can be an elite 6. Its dumb to play him out of position, particularly when crossing is not one of his strengths.

Lilshmike
Post #127
Tuesday March 19, 2019 3:23pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,271
Original post from Lilshmike

Theres nothing wrong with it.

But if the RB role stays the same moving forward, other people may be able to improve the team more by playing that position. In particular, Adams.

If we attack 50% and defend 50% in a game, that means Yedlin will be playing CDM 50% of the game. Is that honestly the best thing for the team?

Managing is not about shoehorning the best 11 players into their best preferred position. Its about having the best 11 - regardless of where they are playing. As stated, the whole needs to be greater than the sum of the parts.

Not saying that the "whole" would be better with Adams at RB or Yedlin. Just presenting a rationale for why it might make sense and how it could possibly benefit us.
@cudevil

Read my above post from earlier in the thread...

bjelks
Post #128
Tuesday March 19, 2019 3:28pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,348
Original post from Lilshmike

Dude... what are you talking about? What on earth does any of this have to do with Tyler Adams?

Seriously, your nonsense is next level and your rants bloat the boards with paranoid, ill informed, ridiculous crap.

Its not like its every once in a while - its legitimately on an everyday basis. You genuinely seem to have some personal issues man. Its starting to become almost sad seeing this stuff...


Actually there were several other posts about moving TA out of position to accommodate for Bradley, but you skipped them, big surprise.

Why do you skip other posts not about the title of the thread and not mine lol?
That's nonsense and ridiculous.

And you have personal issues with a level playing field for access to the game and picking players based on ability and merit.

You care more about USA promoting its domestic league than winning games.

It's funny how I'm bloating nonsense but you can't help yourself but to respond to me and I'm ill informed because the facts I give weaken your agenda. You act like you're threatened by me and that's ok, every man can't handle being challenged.
goalsense
Lilshmike
Post #129
Tuesday March 19, 2019 3:48pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,271
Just because Adams, at 20, potentially plays right back for the USMNT in this next cycle, does not mean that he will not go on to be an elite 6.

David Alaba... arguably the best LB in the world, consistently plays in CM for Austria. Does that mean that he isnt't still a good LB and that he should play LB for Austria? No. He plays in CM because he has more of an impact there for his national team because they have other people who can perform in LB.

We have guys who can play CM. And considering the RB that Berhalter has in his system shifts to CDM roughly 50% of the time... do you want Yedlin playing CDM 50% of the time, or Adams?

cudevil
Post #130
Tuesday March 19, 2019 4:34pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 984
Original post from Lilshmike

Just because Adams, at 20, potentially plays right back for the USMNT in this next cycle, does not mean that he will not go on to be an elite 6.

David Alaba... arguably the best LB in the world, consistently plays in CM for Austria. Does that mean that he isnt't still a good LB and that he should play LB for Austria? No. He plays in CM because he has more of an impact there for his national team because they have other people who can perform in LB.

We have guys who can play CM. And considering the RB that Berhalter has in his system shifts to CDM roughly 50% of the time... do you want Yedlin playing CDM 50% of the time, or Adams?


I think there is a huge difference between moving someone from out wide from a club and into a central position for the national team, when he's the most talented player. Moving one of our best players away from the ball doesn't make sense to me.

I'd frankly rather see Lima there, with Adams remaining in the center instead of constantly shifting.

Playing Adams this way in order to get Bradley on the field reminds me of when the Phoenix Suns had to hide Steve Nash on defense because he was such a sieve. Difference is that Nash's passing ability was analogous to prime Xavi or Iniesta. Bradley's passing simply isn't worth it (or Trapp's for that matter).

Live490
Texas
Post #131
Tuesday March 19, 2019 5:17pm

Joined Mar 2013
Total Posts: 1,174
I also believe it's really dumb to play one of our best players, if not the best at the moment, out of position.

2tone
Ten-Towns
Post #132
Tuesday March 19, 2019 7:00pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 10,445
Original post from Live490

I also believe it's really dumb to play one of our best players, if not the best at the moment, out of position.


It's really not out of position. Did you guys watch the January camp games?

Lilshmike
Post #133
Tuesday March 19, 2019 7:13pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,271
Original post from cudevil

I think there is a huge difference between moving someone from out wide from a club and into a central position for the national team, when he's the most talented player. Moving one of our best players away from the ball doesn't make sense to me.

I'd frankly rather see Lima there, with Adams remaining in the center instead of constantly shifting.

Playing Adams this way in order to get Bradley on the field reminds me of when the Phoenix Suns had to hide Steve Nash on defense because he was such a sieve. Difference is that Nash's passing ability was analogous to prime Xavi or Iniesta. Bradley's passing simply isn't worth it (or Trapp's for that matter).
Its not about getting Bradley on the field. For all you know, McKennie is going to play that position. Claiming that the lineup is being shifted to force Bradley in is ignorant because we legitimately have no idea if hes going to start. No lineup has been announced, so nobody other than Berhalter knows.

Its not about having the best 11 in their best preferred positions. Its about producing the best 11 collectively. Assuming we attack 50% and defend 50% of a game, our RB/CDM hybrid role that person will be 50% at RB and 50% at CDM.

Do you think it is in our best interest to have Yedlin playing CDM 50% of the game? I would say no. I would say that for 50% of the game, he would be a liability and we would have a weakness in CDM - bringing down the collective 11.

Lets say its Lima. Do you think its beneficial to have Lima playing CDM 50% of the game? I would say probably not. Also, would Lima be an upgrade at RB over Yedlin? I would say no. So comparing Lima to Yedlin, Lima may be less of a liability than Yedlin when in CDM 50% of the game, but would (in my opinion) weaken us at RB for 50% of the game - bringing down the collective 11.

So if Adams plays in the lone holding role... great. But still... 50% of the game we are going to have a weakness at CDM - bringing down the collective 11.

OK... now look at Adams at RB. I'd argue that he is not a step up over Yedlin at RB; however, a huge step up at CDM (for this role) - improving the collective 11.

I'll summarize like this:
  • The role is 50% at RB and 50% at CDM
  • Yedlin would not bring down the level of play at RB 50% of the game, but would bring down the level of play from CDM for 50% of the game
  • Lima would be a downgrade from Yedlin at RB for 50% of the game, but but not as great of a liability at CDM for 50% of the game
  • Adams would be at the same level as Yedlin at RB for 50% of the game, and a massive upgrade at CDM for 50% of the game
You can't have your cake and eat it too. You have to pick your poison. Do you want to play Adams as the designated CDM with the current system and knowingly introduce a weakness/liability for 50% of the game in the middle of the field? Or play him at RB where he won't bring down the level of play at that position but will provide a massive boost in the center for 50% of the game when he is there?

Lilshmike
Post #134
Tuesday March 19, 2019 7:33pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,271
Original post from 2tone

It's really not out of position. Did you guys watch the January camp games?
Obviously not. People are too stuck on the possibility of Trapp or Bradley playing to be able to see the bigger picture...

cudevil
Post #135
Tuesday March 19, 2019 10:07pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 984
Original post from Lilshmike

Its not about getting Bradley on the field. For all you know, McKennie is going to play that position. Claiming that the lineup is being shifted to force Bradley in is ignorant because we legitimately have no idea if hes going to start. No lineup has been announced, so nobody other than Berhalter knows.

Its not about having the best 11 in their best preferred positions. Its about producing the best 11 collectively. Assuming we attack 50% and defend 50% of a game, our RB/CDM hybrid role that person will be 50% at RB and 50% at CDM.

Do you think it is in our best interest to have Yedlin playing CDM 50% of the game? I would say no. I would say that for 50% of the game, he would be a liability and we would have a weakness in CDM - bringing down the collective 11.

Lets say its Lima. Do you think its beneficial to have Lima playing CDM 50% of the game? I would say probably not. Also, would Lima be an upgrade at RB over Yedlin? I would say no. So comparing Lima to Yedlin, Lima may be less of a liability than Yedlin when in CDM 50% of the game, but would (in my opinion) weaken us at RB for 50% of the game - bringing down the collective 11.

So if Adams plays in the lone holding role... great. But still... 50% of the game we are going to have a weakness at CDM - bringing down the collective 11.

OK... now look at Adams at RB. I'd argue that he is not a step up over Yedlin at RB; however, a huge step up at CDM (for this role) - improving the collective 11.

I'll summarize like this:
  • The role is 50% at RB and 50% at CDM
  • Yedlin would not bring down the level of play at RB 50% of the game, but would bring down the level of play from CDM for 50% of the game
  • Lima would be a downgrade from Yedlin at RB for 50% of the game, but but not as great of a liability at CDM for 50% of the game
  • Adams would be at the same level as Yedlin at RB for 50% of the game, and a massive upgrade at CDM for 50% of the game
You can't have your cake and eat it too. You have to pick your poison. Do you want to play Adams as the designated CDM with the current system and knowingly introduce a weakness/liability for 50% of the game in the middle of the field? Or play him at RB where he won't bring down the level of play at that position but will provide a massive boost in the center for 50% of the game when he is there?


Against CR last month, we played a nominal 4-3-3:

Lima - Zimmerman - Long - Lovitz

Roldan - Trapp - Mihailovic

Barid - Zardes - Arriola

Now we put Adams in for Lima. Do I know for certain that Trapp or Bradley will be on the field with McKennie? No. But the odds seem really low. I frankly can't see any way that Trapp or Bradley don't play along with McKennie in the midfield. And if that's the case, it's dumb.

Bradley doesn't figure into the plans moving forward and placing significant emphasis on getting a result in the GC at the expense of future development towards '22 is dumb (I don't care about the Confed Cup, and we'd have a second bite at that apple anyways). It's slightly less dumb with Trapp, but I don't think he has a real future either, and if he does, it's likely as a back up to kill off games.

And even in this glorious hybrid RB role, Adams is playing RB on offense. From what I've seen Adams is not a great crosser, which is kind of a requirement in that role on offense. I don't believe for an instant that this creates the best collective 11 (particularly when factoring in that it takes another one of our best players and plays him out of his natural position as well).

Lastly, if anyone should play that role, it should be McKennie. He's already been playing RB and RW for Schalke. But I guess GB is the smartest guy in the room.

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