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bjelks
Post #46
Sunday February 17, 2019 4:57pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,229
Original post from cudevil

The reasonable explanation is that he is 28 (soon to be 29), isn't playing all that well, and has sucked for the Nats. What's the point in bringing him in? He's not part of the future plans. I don't care if Bradley is called in or not, but at least he has a history of results for the Nats that he can point to.

Also don't care if Trapp is called in, but he is 2.5 years younger than Morales and at least fits the timeline for ‘22.

But sure, it's racism.


Again I just listed 2 guys that have sucked for the nats over an extended period of time that continue to get called in and you continue to make up bullshit double standard excuses for them to be included.
You don't care if Trapp or Bradley is called in, but you care if they are called in over Morales haha, give me a fucking break.
We've had countless other lower level and profile players that have got calls over Morales and even repeat calls that have been shit, I'm just asking that y'all recognize the prejudice.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #47
Sunday February 17, 2019 5:11pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,229
Original post from Lilshmike

@bjelks

Dude... you don't get it. It's not blind belief in Bradley. Everyone keeps saying that hes over the hill and passed it but we lack better options.

Williams has been hurt, is almost as old as Bradley, isnt fit, has not really played in a year, and currently doesnt even make the bench consistently for the worst team in the premier league by a mile and it's not even close... No, he does not deserve to be called in. No, he is not currently better than Bradley. No, never at his peak was he better than Bradley at his peak. No, he should not get consideration to get called in until he is fit, playing consistently, and earns it. It's possible that he wont be the same player once hes fully fit. But once hes in the championship next season, you'll likely quit making ridiculous claims about calling him in.

Morales was never good for the national team. Never. Every time he played he was bad... so bad that it made most people say "geez, I would actually rather have Bradley out here". Yeah, he plays consistently in the Bundesliga, and sure he should probably get a look from Berhalter... but if Berhalter wants a deep lying midfielder to ping long balls and disrupt offensive lanes, then Morales isnt the guy. That role, believe it or not, suits Bradley better than Morales. And for the other positions/roles in midfield that we have, there are other players better than him.

McKennie and Adams are at the point where they are better and are pushing Bradley out of the picture... but candidly we have yet to see how this will truly pan out and how/where they will fit into Berhalters system. They undoubtedly have a role... where yet is TBD. Nobody knows that except Berhalter.

Just because someone plays in a good league does not mean that they are automatically better or better suited to play a position than someone who is in a lower league.

Enough with this. You're not changing anyone's mind on the topic. It's becoming a broken record and its bloating and spanning almost every thread at this point. We get it... you think everyone in Europe is better than anyone in MLS, you think Bradley is terrible, and anyone who disagrees is a fanboy. Nobody cares and nobody is going to magically come to their senses and start agreeing with everything you say. Just stop with this nonsense.


I just don't understand what Morales did so bad 6 yrs ago that blackballed him from consideration from even a camp, when we've had countless players get repeat and current call ups that have had previous bad performances.

I don't know if Ive described Bradley as terrible, but as a 6 against a top team France, Holland, England, his lack of quickness and speed makes him a major liability.

At least we know Morales is playing week in and week out against top level competition, which is the #1 thing everyone on these boards asks for.

I'm not going to change anybody's mind about Morales and that's fine, but when ppl say the American player isn't any good, I will be the first to point out obvious player exclusions that weren't based on merit, but the politics of the program.
goalsense
hamsamwich
Post #48
Sunday February 17, 2019 8:59pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,143
There was a big push in the American community when we got rid of Klinsmann to use "American" (born in USA) players and not Germericans. The guys from germany had their commitment questioned. Guys like Chandler and more. Morales was always in play for Peru and/or his native Germany. Much like Kenny Saief or Aron Johansson, the opportunity that was presented to Morales was there, and he chose to represent USA internationally. But back home, there was always a feeling among many USA fans that guys that were about equal to other "American" players were getting special treatment from Jurgen. There was a big correction when Arena came in with his comments and feelings. When Roldan, Lima, Ramirez (and in the future Mendez, Llanez or whoever) are on the team it's hard to see it's a skin color issue. Garber and SUM definitely have sway over the roster and the ousting of Germericans by and large from the program is to me the reason Morales for example (or Chandler) haven't been around for awhile. I have always been a fan of Morales and as a person of Latin descent I've never seen this as a race thing. More of a xenophobic, no more Germericans policy unless like Brooks they are clearly better than a USA born option.

Dave
Post #49
Sunday February 17, 2019 11:30pm

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 996
@hamsamwich - While I agree in part with some of your comments...."unless clearly better than a USA born Option", there are other aspects that have to be brought into the discussion.
Under JK a number of duel nationals were given chances (J. Jones, F. Johnson, J. Brooks, A. Morales, D. Williams, M. Diskerude, A. Johannsson, etc....). Some were stand-out players while others were just OK under JK. Now part of that was JK's habit of putting players in odd positions but some of it was just players not being able to adapt to the international game. Morales & Williams in particular should have been given more opportunities after the 2014 cycle ended. But JK stuck with the legacy players (Jones & Beckerman) longer than he should have. Right after the WC Beckerman & Jones should have been 2nd string to guys like Morales & Williams.
JK was not good with tactics and often got formation and player selections wrong.

I completely agree that once Arena was placed in charge there was an agenda (push) to use more MLS (native Americans) based players. And that decision was part of why we failed to qualify for 2018. Again this is the time frame in which Williams & Morales should have been major contributors to the team, but weren't due to Injury, Club form, & Arena's agenda.

What many are forgetting is that Morales went through a long period where he was struggling to get games with his clubs (Bottom table B1 & top table B2). During this time it's hard to claim that Bradley wasn't a better option. As for Chandler & D. Williams, while they were regulars for their clubs, they were also constantly out injured. Williams was part of the Portugal game (2017), but has been sidelined ever since. Chandler has had 2 significant knee injuries and only just returned to his clubs active roster. Until Chandler & Williams are playing every week again for their clubs they shouldn't be in the picture.

IMO, A healthy and in form Chandler & D. Williams are clearly an improvement over Trapp/Bradley or Moore/Lima, and should be given a chance again with the USMNT once they prove they're healthy. Till they prove their healthy and in form it's a non-issue.

Morales is different. He's healthy and playing again. I wouldn't mind seeing him called into the March games, but I won't be disappointed if he's not. In my opinion he's the 4th best CDM in our pool right now...and the margin betwen 4th & 7th is more a matter of perspective than quality of the players skills.

We are building a team to be competitive enough to win the HEX. To that end we've got 2 young & dynamic CDMs (Adams & McKennie) to build around. We've got 4 CDMs that are basically transitional depth (Williams, Bradley, Morales, Trapp), but shouldn't be anywhere near the 1st team come 2021. Than there are a handful of young inexperienced players who will hopefully break out over the next couple years (Acosta, Canouse, Durkin, Torres, ect...).
As long as Adams & McKennie are available for selection it doesn't really matter who is chosen 3rd, 4th, or 5th at this point in the cycle. As long a Berhalter keeps an open mind, and periodically checks in on those (calls up) who will be back-ups to Adams & McKennie, I don't really care. If it were me coaching the team I'd call up 1 option from the transitional depth & 1 option from the inexperienced players groups for each camp. I would rotate the calls based on what I see in practice and what I see happening at their clubs.

We are a team in transition, both our coaching staff and our player pool. It is going to take a while for Berhalter and his staff to determine which players will work in his system, and which 23 will ultimately be a part of the squad/camps when games matter. We fans can argue the merit of 1 player above another, but ultimately we cannot influence who is chosen, and may have to accept that some players who are better for the team are selected over someone someone who has better technical ability.

cudevil
Post #50
Monday February 18, 2019 3:41am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 934
Original post from bjelks

Again I just listed 2 guys that have sucked for the nats over an extended period of time that continue to get called in and you continue to make up bullshit double standard excuses for them to be included.
You don't care if Trapp or Bradley is called in, but you care if they are called in over Morales haha, give me a fucking break.
We've had countless other lower level and profile players that have got calls over Morales and even repeat calls that have been shit, I'm just asking that y'all recognize the prejudice.


Your reading comprehension stinks. I pointed out the reasons why the people making the call up decisions might call in Trapp and Bradley. It doesn't take a doctorate in string theory to see see them.

bjelks
Post #51
Monday February 18, 2019 3:56am

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,229
Original post from cudevil

Your reading comprehension stinks. I pointed out the reasons why the people making the call up decisions might call in Trapp and Bradley. It doesn't take a doctorate in string theory to see see them.


Your lack of awareness and identification of prejudice and nepotism stinks. I pointed out why someone might overlook a brown player who is better than a non brown player in America and how someone who is racist and prejudice might excuse it. It doesn't take Martin Luther King Jr or Nelson Mandela to see it.

I gave you a Latin player who plays in a better league by 2 levels, starts, and is a regular who can't get a callup over college players, washed up US Nats, and declining MLS vets, my friend you have no logical reasoning to leave Morales out, cut the bullshit and find something else to talk about.
goalsense
hamsamwich
Post #52
Monday February 18, 2019 6:23am

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,143
@bjelks- I Gave you what I would say was Arena and the fan bases argument for moving on. For what other national team would a 28, 29 year old retread be brought back in after not qualifying?? Italy, the Dutch. The aren't doing that. They are giving the minutes to their version of Tyler Adams.

Lilshmike
Post #53
Monday February 18, 2019 6:28am

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,178
Original post from bjelks

Your lack of awareness and identification of prejudice and nepotism stinks. I pointed out why someone might overlook a brown player who is better than a non brown player in America and how someone who is racist and prejudice might excuse it. It doesn't take Martin Luther King Jr or Nelson Mandela to see it.

I gave you a Latin player who plays in a better league by 2 levels, starts, and is a regular who can't get a callup over college players, washed up US Nats, and declining MLS vets, my friend you have no logical reasoning to leave Morales out, cut the bullshit and find something else to talk about.
Morales isn't exactly a player that really matters too much to where it's an outrage if he is left off the roster. People genuinely don't care because he has bounced between 1st and 2nd division teams, never performed well when he was given opportunities for the USMNT, plays a position where we already have better players, is at the age where he may not be in the picture for 2022, and at best he likely wouldn't be a starter but a depth piece on our bench.

It has nothing to do with racism dude. If it did, then McKennie, Zardes, Adams, Lewis, Steffen, Yedlin, Ebobisse, Brooks, Robinson, etc wouldn't be called in. It has nothing to do with Hispanic players either, otherwise Roldan, Delgado, Rubin, Ramirez, Corona, Villafana, etc would not get called in.

Continuously trying to imply that, when the facts of the program don't support it and say the complete opposite, is absurd. No, it's not that everyone else has a problem with identifying players and being blinded by prejudice, while you're the only sane enlightened one who sees it. It's you. You are the problem. And the more you keep making these nonsense claims and talk down to everyone who disagrees, the more outrageous this becomes and the more ridiculously dumb you make yourself look.

Seriously. Its legitimately on almost every thread now. Just stop.

bjelks
Post #54
Monday February 18, 2019 2:18pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,229
Original post from hamsamwich

@bjelks- I Gave you what I would say was Arena and the fan bases argument for moving on. For what other national team would a 28, 29 year old retread be brought back in after not qualifying?? Italy, the Dutch. The aren't doing that. They are giving the minutes to their version of Tyler Adams.


I understand your pt about Arena, however I think Italy and the Dutch are going to call their best players. This isn't about Tyler Adams. He's clearly an undisputed automatic starter, head and shoulders above his position group in every metric.
This is about Bradley, Trapp, Roldan and every other MLS scrub that is called into camp over a player that plays on a clearly higher level than them.
I can tell you that defensive midfield and left back have been our biggest weaknesses the last yr and through qualification and Trapp and Bradley looked completely over their heads against England, Brazil and Colombia.
If we had to play reserves, I think at the very least Morales looks serviceable against world powers.
goalsense
bjelks
Post #55
Monday February 18, 2019 2:31pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,229
Original post from Lilshmike

Morales isn't exactly a player that really matters too much to where it's an outrage if he is left off the roster. People genuinely don't care because he has bounced between 1st and 2nd division teams, never performed well when he was given opportunities for the USMNT, plays a position where we already have better players, is at the age where he may not be in the picture for 2022, and at best he likely wouldn't be a starter but a depth piece on our bench.

It has nothing to do with racism dude. If it did, then McKennie, Zardes, Adams, Lewis, Steffen, Yedlin, Ebobisse, Brooks, Robinson, etc wouldn't be called in. It has nothing to do with Hispanic players either, otherwise Roldan, Delgado, Rubin, Ramirez, Corona, Villafana, etc would not get called in.

Continuously trying to imply that, when the facts of the program don't support it and say the complete opposite, is absurd. No, it's not that everyone else has a problem with identifying players and being blinded by prejudice, while you're the only sane enlightened one who sees it. It's you. You are the problem. And the more you keep making these nonsense claims and talk down to everyone who disagrees, the more outrageous this becomes and the more ridiculously dumb you make yourself look.

Seriously. Its legitimately on almost every thread now. Just stop.


I'm sorry buddy, but if people don't want an even playing field where guys are picked for their merit, then they're full of prejudice bs too. Im not agreeing that Bradley, Trapp, Roldan are good enough to start in Bundesliga at this point. So if you say we have better players, you're fucking LYING. Hmm the US program picks minorities which either have an MLS background or have big club pedigree and white boys who are avg MLS players, hardly inclusive of all.
Everyone else is fucked over, especially for guys that have the good old boy background of Bradley and Trapp. And there's a big gap between Avg MLS players and avg Bunde players. You say it doesn't matter like you don't know this is true.
goalsense
cudevil
Post #56
Monday February 18, 2019 5:42pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 934
Original post from bjelks

Your lack of awareness and identification of prejudice and nepotism stinks. I pointed out why someone might overlook a brown player who is better than a non brown player in America and how someone who is racist and prejudice might excuse it. It doesn't take Martin Luther King Jr or Nelson Mandela to see it.

I gave you a Latin player who plays in a better league by 2 levels, starts, and is a regular who can't get a callup over college players, washed up US Nats, and declining MLS vets, my friend you have no logical reasoning to leave Morales out, cut the bullshit and find something else to talk about.


A) Learn the definition of nepotism, because you have yet to use it correctly.

B) Ya, we just have a bunch of white guys that we run out for every MNT match. The idea that Morales isn't getting called up because he's of Latin descent makes my goddamned brain hurt.

bjelks
Post #57
Monday February 18, 2019 6:33pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,229
Original post from cudevil

A) Learn the definition of nepotism, because you have yet to use it correctly.

B) Ya, we just have a bunch of white guys that we run out for every MNT match. The idea that Morales isn't getting called up because he's of Latin descent makes my goddamned brain hurt.


A) Arena, Sarachan, and GB have been calling Bradley and Trapp consistently because of their agenda to promote MLS and USSF youth development, where they have family and friend ties.
That's nepotism giving someone something they haven't earned because who they are connected to.

B) If you are going to be critical of my posts, read the entire thing not just the parts that hurt your feelings. Our last 3 managers have made a practice of giving unqualified white MLS players opportunities over minority players abroad that don't have big club pedigrees or MLS backgrounds. Our last manager DS, gave a start at lb to Ben Sweat and made Trapp Captain. These guys aren't even good MLS players.
But a minority player has to play day in and day out at a big club in Europe and be a top contributor to earn a call up.
That is fucking racism!
goalsense
Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #58
Monday February 18, 2019 9:01pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 807
Original post from bjelks

A) Arena, Sarachan, and GB have been calling Bradley and Trapp consistently because of their agenda to promote MLS and USSF youth development, where they have family and friend ties.
That's nepotism giving someone something they haven't earned because who they are connected to.

B) If you are going to be critical of my posts, read the entire thing not just the parts that hurt your feelings. Our last 3 managers have made a practice of giving unqualified white MLS players opportunities over minority players abroad that don't have big club pedigrees or MLS backgrounds. Our last manager DS, gave a start at lb to Ben Sweat and made Trapp Captain. These guys aren't even good MLS players.
But a minority player has to play day in and day out at a big club in Europe and be a top contributor to earn a call up.
That is fucking racism!


We have a nursing assistant Traci where I work at the VA and she is a good worker and does great things for the Vets. We have several others nursing assistants who go above and beyond for our vets and are also great workers. The end of the year rolled around and one of the other nursing assistants got picked for Na of they year and got a bonus. Traci then complained that she was not picked solely because of racism. I like her and she is a great worker but the girl who got picked is simply the best worker bar none. Crying racism because you didn't get what you wanted is like crying wolf, it doesn't do anyone any good and maybe makes a legit claim fall on deaf ears. Some guys not getting picked because it's your opinion that someone else is better is not racism, it's your own damn opinion. We have a very diverse national team. Stop trying to create racial tension where there is none.

cudevil
Post #59
Monday February 18, 2019 9:29pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 934
Original post from bjelks

A) Arena, Sarachan, and GB have been calling Bradley and Trapp consistently because of their agenda to promote MLS and USSF youth development, where they have family and friend ties.
That's nepotism giving someone something they haven't earned because who they are connected to.

B) If you are going to be critical of my posts, read the entire thing not just the parts that hurt your feelings. Our last 3 managers have made a practice of giving unqualified white MLS players opportunities over minority players abroad that don't have big club pedigrees or MLS backgrounds. Our last manager DS, gave a start at lb to Ben Sweat and made Trapp Captain. These guys aren't even good MLS players.
But a minority player has to play day in and day out at a big club in Europe and be a top contributor to earn a call up.
That is fucking racism!


A) It's called cronyism. And no, it's not semantics. Nepotism is based on familial relationships and it's significant in this context because of the fact that Bradley did have nepotism claims thrown at him when he was first called into the Nats and Bob was the coach.

B) The only thing that is hurtful about your posts is the damage they do to the concepts of reason and logic. It's eight types of stupid to argue that calling in a black/Hispanic player with an MLS background over a black/Hispanic player from Europe. It's pretty goddamn obvious what the difference is (hint: it is not skin color). If you want to continue railing against the preference for MLS players, that's fine. But calling it racism de-values the term.

Lilshmike
Post #60
Monday February 18, 2019 10:03pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,178
Original post from bjelks

A) Arena, Sarachan, and GB have been calling Bradley and Trapp consistently because of their agenda to promote MLS and USSF youth development, where they have family and friend ties.
That's nepotism giving someone something they haven't earned because who they are connected to.

B) If you are going to be critical of my posts, read the entire thing not just the parts that hurt your feelings. Our last 3 managers have made a practice of giving unqualified white MLS players opportunities over minority players abroad that don't have big club pedigrees or MLS backgrounds. Our last manager DS, gave a start at lb to Ben Sweat and made Trapp Captain. These guys aren't even good MLS players.
But a minority player has to play day in and day out at a big club in Europe and be a top contributor to earn a call up.
That is fucking racism!
Oh, you know... like Olosunde, Robinson, Moore, CCV, Amon, Gall, EPB... all those guys were called in within the last year. If racism was an issue, then these guys wouldn't have been called in.

Again, you keep defeating your own arguments and making baseless, ridiculous claims. Again, it's not everyone else who is blind. It's you who is completely out of touch. Its beyond the point of saying stop to be honest. You never quit regardless of the situation. You're nonsense and stupidity is next level.

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