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Dave
Post #286
Saturday September 19, 2020 9:11am

Joined Jul 2014
Total Posts: 1,111
Stoked,
Sarachan was never going to be kept around after Arena shit the bed with the T&T game. He was given the care-taker manager roll because he was an inoffensive person who wouldn't make waves among the players, and was a known entity. I'm willing to bet that USSF was making 90-95% of the roster selections with an eye towards the Olympics and basically told Dave to just run them through their paces and don't alienate any of the players.

Lilshmike
Post #287
Saturday September 19, 2020 4:46pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,510
Original post from stoked-3

Well this is exactly opposite of what true Nats fans want to hear. Our American spirit is to not make excuses but to rather fight like hell. Whats our excuse Covid? everyone else in the world has dealt with that.

Could it be US soccer screwed the whole search which left us in limbo-could it be then GB stuck with mls players to long and for his "experimenting"?

We have a guy who just received the number 10 for Chelsea, a guy who scored in a Uefa semi, a guy playing next to Rolando, a guy who played today for Bayern. A LB who played great in his 1st PL game-a guy who barcelona is chasing Oh and a kid who has played 2x for Barca first team, a kid who is starting striker in Bundasliga, and a young Reyna who is a baller and I think amoungst the leader scorers in preseason. we have several who are close to 1st team mins with major clubs.

Can you tell me why we are set up to fail, and why we shouldnt expect good things

And if you are gearing up for 2026-then why have you been against calling the euro fringe guys-if they lack experience why not throw them into friendlies now so then can gain experience before our glorious 2026 run
Theres no excuse. We simply aren't good enough yet. We have young guys developing, but if you're going to think that we are on the same level of France, Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Spain... the teams competing to win a world cup... you're absolutely delusional.

So yes... our expectation should be exactly as I stated. I'm spot on. We should have a team that's good enough to qualify for the WC and possibly make it out of the group stage in 2022... but our team (top to bottom, in every position and on the bench) just isn't good enough yet to expect much more. By 2026, assuming most of our players pan out the way they seem capable of, we should have a team that's good enough to maybe make a run given we have some luck (kind of like Croatia this last WC).

And theres nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, that Gregg or USSF can do to change that. What, are they going to wave some magic wand and magically add players with the skill of Messi, Cristiano, Lewandowski, Van Dijk, etc and have them all on our team?? No.

Trying hard and having the American spirit is great and all... but let's get real here. We just aren't on the same level as the best teams in the world. We aren't there in our starting lineup, we aren't there with our bench, and we aren't there with our player pool. MLS players, coaching search, or whatever else you want to complain about aside, we just aren't there yet and we will not be there by 2022. The best manager in the world couldn't change that. USSF hiring that manager immediately after firing Arena wouldn't have changed that.

And you're talking about throwing Euro based guys in games... dude, we've done that. Most of these guys have been called in except for random youth/reserve players. McKennie, Adams, Morales, Pulisic, Brooks, Miazga, Ream, Robinson, Yedlin, Dest, Sargent, Llanez, etc... so like, what are you even complaining about? Those guys are getting called in and gaining experience. And when exactly have we had friendlies where we could call in any additional Euro guys when those guys were healthy?? Like, what are you actually complaining about?? We were going to have Euro based friendlies prior to covid, so that's just crappy circumstances... completely out of the control of our manager or anyone else... so again, what are you even complaining about?

Lilshmike
Post #288
Saturday September 19, 2020 4:58pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,510
Original post from Know Nothing

My kool-aid reference is not based on any factual basis. It is just an observation how the vast majority of your carefully crafted, carefully scripted responses seem to follow the USSF/GGG line.
I'm not pushing or following any line. If I was, I'd be saying let's play all of our home games against Mexico in Texas or southern California (something SUM wants). I would be talking about SUM and telling everyone it's a great idea to not have promotion/relegation in MLS and that we should model the MLS like other major American sports leagues. I'd be saying we should be calling in more MLS players. I would be wanting every good American international to come back and play in MLS. I'm not in favor of any of that crap.

I simply understand when certain things are outside of an individual's control and try to be fair to them for it. I'm not going to scapegoat a manager for... what exactly? We haven't even started WC qualifying, and so far he has managed us in line with realistic expectations given the talent level of our player pool and the players we've had available when there have been windows.

hamsamwich
Post #289
Saturday September 19, 2020 9:01pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,454
I think many people are suggesting he's not fit to push the program forward into that elite tier. The players are starting to be elite tier at their clubs and yet there's a sense something is missing at the coach and management level.

It's also a little early to throw the towel in for December 2022. That's two and half club seasons from now.

hamsamwich
Post #290
Sunday September 20, 2020 10:15pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,454
90 minutes of controlled play in possession from Tyler. Many progressive passes forward to start attack and in all manner: side of the foot, outside of the foot, right foot left foot, long, short, wide, through the middle. This was him putting his stamp on the job at Leipzig.

stoked-3
Post #291
Monday September 21, 2020 4:35pm

Joined Mar 2020
Total Posts: 99
Original post from Lilshmike

Theres no excuse. We simply aren't good enough yet. We have young guys developing, but if you're going to think that we are on the same level of France, Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Spain... the teams competing to win a world cup... you're absolutely delusional.

So yes... our expectation should be exactly as I stated. I'm spot on. We should have a team that's good enough to qualify for the WC and possibly make it out of the group stage in 2022... but our team (top to bottom, in every position and on the bench) just isn't good enough yet to expect much more. By 2026, assuming most of our players pan out the way they seem capable of, we should have a team that's good enough to maybe make a run given we have some luck (kind of like Croatia this last WC).

And theres nothing, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING, that Gregg or USSF can do to change that. What, are they going to wave some magic wand and magically add players with the skill of Messi, Cristiano, Lewandowski, Van Dijk, etc and have them all on our team?? No.

Trying hard and having the American spirit is great and all... but let's get real here. We just aren't on the same level as the best teams in the world. We aren't there in our starting lineup, we aren't there with our bench, and we aren't there with our player pool. MLS players, coaching search, or whatever else you want to complain about aside, we just aren't there yet and we will not be there by 2022. The best manager in the world couldn't change that. USSF hiring that manager immediately after firing Arena wouldn't have changed that.

And you're talking about throwing Euro based guys in games... dude, we've done that. Most of these guys have been called in except for random youth/reserve players. McKennie, Adams, Morales, Pulisic, Brooks, Miazga, Ream, Robinson, Yedlin, Dest, Sargent, Llanez, etc... so like, what are you even complaining about? Those guys are getting called in and gaining experience. And when exactly have we had friendlies where we could call in any additional Euro guys when those guys were healthy?? Like, what are you actually complaining about?? We were going to have Euro based friendlies prior to covid, so that's just crappy circumstances... completely out of the control of our manager or anyone else... so again, what are you even complaining about?


Honest question are you Greg B , Gregs brother, or Ernie Stewart? Also, it is funny when you tell yourself you are spot on in your own post as if your opinion is the gospel.

Where in my post did I say we are on the same level as France, Brazli, Germany etc you resort to calling me delusional for a point I didnt raise-ridiculous but expected as you do this often then claim some sort or moral superiority on this board.
But I will say we tied France , not on US soil, you know, the team that won the WC-they had a strong lineup, we had an experimental squad. The guy you bag on Green had a goal. I am not saying that is the norm however for a point I never raised maybe I should have given that result.

I think our players who are playing major roles for huge club teams may have something to say about not being good enough. It is really an ignorant statement to claim as fact that we are not good enough, and should qualify, and hopefully just maybe with luck make it out of the group. Hopefully we have guys in US soccer with the complete opposite mentality as you, or else we will fail to qualify again.

Your post then goes on to read there is in all caps NOTHING GB can do about us not doing well, and you defend the job search etc
Sure there is alot that could have be done and still more than can be done now but I'll save that for a different post, but to get you worked up and let you know my points will include: they could have conducted a real search, potentially found a different coach, or concluded the search quicker so we could have been done with useless callups GB gave us to help instill his style. Could have realized sooner the players he called up cannot hang in Int level etc

In regards to "throwing Euro based guys into games......." do I need to answer it 3x since you asked 3x "like what are you talking about" I didnt realize people still spoke like that. But that was in reference to your statement that fingers crossed we look towards 2026 bc we are not good enough to maybe even make it to 22. Again, in posts to myself and others your say reading comprehension is an issue however, I did not say Euro based guys, I clearly said Euro Fringe IE youth. Your prior posts say we do not have experience so following your logic if we are not going to make it to WC22 and our guys lack experience and GB is a soccer wizard we should call in you guys now who have not cracked the 1st team but who eventually will, getting them ready now for their lucky run in 26. LOL

I repeat: we had Adams/McKennie start and play great for huge clubs. Pulisic is wearing the 10 for Chelsea, please reread that a US player is the 10 for Chelsea, Dest is going to be world class and there is a fight for him between arguably 2 of the biggest clubs in the world, Our keeper will see mins for a top 2 PL team, our LB will start in the PL, our CB starts every yr in PL, we have MLS quota long in at our other CB, we have Reyna who scored o and started, JS started, Green the guy you dont rate continue to play well, Weah is getting healthy, Gooch scored, I think Boyd scored as well this weekend, and your boy Zardes is scoring, I head our mls players so tell me why we would not expect to not only qualify but advance out of our group.

We are good enough, our coach and USSF not so much

bjelks
Post #292
Monday September 21, 2020 5:09pm

Joined Nov 2012
Total Posts: 1,767
Aaron Long isn't good enough neither is Ream or Morris or Zardes, but @Stoked-3 makes great points otherwise.

Gregg is unqualified and incompetent and USSF is a circus
goalsense
Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #293
Monday September 21, 2020 5:14pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,062
Original post from stoked-3

[/b]

Honest question are you Greg B , Gregs brother, or Ernie Stewart? Also, it is funny when you tell yourself you are spot on in your own post as if your opinion is the gospel.

Where in my post did I say we are on the same level as France, Brazli, Germany etc you resort to calling me delusional for a point I didnt raise-ridiculous but expected as you do this often then claim some sort or moral superiority on this board.
But I will say we tied France , not on US soil, you know, the team that won the WC-they had a strong lineup, we had an experimental squad. The guy you bag on Green had a goal. I am not saying that is the norm however for a point I never raised maybe I should have given that result.

I think our players who are playing major roles for huge club teams may have something to say about not being good enough. It is really an ignorant statement to claim as fact that we are not good enough, and should qualify, and hopefully just maybe with luck make it out of the group. Hopefully we have guys in US soccer with the complete opposite mentality as you, or else we will fail to qualify again.

Your post then goes on to read there is in all caps NOTHING GB can do about us not doing well, and you defend the job search etc
Sure there is alot that could have be done and still more than can be done now but I'll save that for a different post, but to get you worked up and let you know my points will include: they could have conducted a real search, potentially found a different coach, or concluded the search quicker so we could have been done with useless callups GB gave us to help instill his style. Could have realized sooner the players he called up cannot hang in Int level etc

In regards to "throwing Euro based guys into games......." do I need to answer it 3x since you asked 3x "like what are you talking about" I didnt realize people still spoke like that. But that was in reference to your statement that fingers crossed we look towards 2026 bc we are not good enough to maybe even make it to 22. Again, in posts to myself and others your say reading comprehension is an issue however, I did not say Euro based guys, I clearly said Euro Fringe IE youth. Your prior posts say we do not have experience so following your logic if we are not going to make it to WC22 and our guys lack experience and GB is a soccer wizard we should call in you guys now who have not cracked the 1st team but who eventually will, getting them ready now for their lucky run in 26. LOL

I repeat: we had Adams/McKennie start and play great for huge clubs. Pulisic is wearing the 10 for Chelsea, please reread that a US player is the 10 for Chelsea, Dest is going to be world class and there is a fight for him between arguably 2 of the biggest clubs in the world, Our keeper will see mins for a top 2 PL team, our LB will start in the PL, our CB starts every yr in PL, we have MLS quota long in at our other CB, we have Reyna who scored o and started, JS started, Green the guy you dont rate continue to play well, Weah is getting healthy, Gooch scored, I think Boyd scored as well this weekend, and your boy Zardes is scoring, I head our mls players so tell me why we would not expect to not only qualify but advance out of our group.

We are good enough, our coach and USSF not so much


Tough decision for a Coach, play the young untested guys or play the Veteran's you know and feel you can depend upon. After losing to T&T and waiting in limbo for a coach for so long GB was up against it right from the start. I don't blame him for playing vets in the beginning. However there is really no excuse for continually calling in some pretty useless guys (roldan, trapp etc.) when you have a veteran player like Green who was in form and producing. I have to side with stoked we should have played more young guys rather than a lot of these useless callups.

Lilshmike
Post #294
Monday September 21, 2020 6:28pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,510
Original post from stoked-3

[/b]

Honest question are you Greg B , Gregs brother, or Ernie Stewart? Also, it is funny when you tell yourself you are spot on in your own post as if your opinion is the gospel.

Where in my post did I say we are on the same level as France, Brazli, Germany etc you resort to calling me delusional for a point I didnt raise-ridiculous but expected as you do this often then claim some sort or moral superiority on this board.
But I will say we tied France , not on US soil, you know, the team that won the WC-they had a strong lineup, we had an experimental squad. The guy you bag on Green had a goal. I am not saying that is the norm however for a point I never raised maybe I should have given that result.

I think our players who are playing major roles for huge club teams may have something to say about not being good enough. It is really an ignorant statement to claim as fact that we are not good enough, and should qualify, and hopefully just maybe with luck make it out of the group. Hopefully we have guys in US soccer with the complete opposite mentality as you, or else we will fail to qualify again.

Your post then goes on to read there is in all caps NOTHING GB can do about us not doing well, and you defend the job search etc
Sure there is alot that could have be done and still more than can be done now but I'll save that for a different post, but to get you worked up and let you know my points will include: they could have conducted a real search, potentially found a different coach, or concluded the search quicker so we could have been done with useless callups GB gave us to help instill his style. Could have realized sooner the players he called up cannot hang in Int level etc

In regards to "throwing Euro based guys into games......." do I need to answer it 3x since you asked 3x "like what are you talking about" I didnt realize people still spoke like that. But that was in reference to your statement that fingers crossed we look towards 2026 bc we are not good enough to maybe even make it to 22. Again, in posts to myself and others your say reading comprehension is an issue however, I did not say Euro based guys, I clearly said Euro Fringe IE youth. Your prior posts say we do not have experience so following your logic if we are not going to make it to WC22 and our guys lack experience and GB is a soccer wizard we should call in you guys now who have not cracked the 1st team but who eventually will, getting them ready now for their lucky run in 26. LOL

I repeat: we had Adams/McKennie start and play great for huge clubs. Pulisic is wearing the 10 for Chelsea, please reread that a US player is the 10 for Chelsea, Dest is going to be world class and there is a fight for him between arguably 2 of the biggest clubs in the world, Our keeper will see mins for a top 2 PL team, our LB will start in the PL, our CB starts every yr in PL, we have MLS quota long in at our other CB, we have Reyna who scored o and started, JS started, Green the guy you dont rate continue to play well, Weah is getting healthy, Gooch scored, I think Boyd scored as well this weekend, and your boy Zardes is scoring, I head our mls players so tell me why we would not expect to not only qualify but advance out of our group.

We are good enough, our coach and USSF not so much
Hahaha ok, so first point is that its clear your issue is with the messenger, not the message. I'm not claiming any moral superiority here, but you're arguing something that really isn't an argument.

Serious question... do you think we are going to win the WC in 2022? Should we as fans expect the USMNT to win the WC in 2022? If so, you are indirectly saying that we are on the same level of France, Brazil, Argentina, Germany, etc...

Winning a WC takes more than just a coach and "the American spirit". The reality is that our player pool is nowhere near the level of those teams... not in our starting 11, not on our bench, not in our player pool. We are getting jacked up because Pulisic has the 10 at Chelsea, and McKennie just got a transfer to Juve, and Adams is on one of the top 3 teams in Germany. These are great accomplishments and indicative of the progress of our program and the improvement of our team... but a few good players won't make up for the fact that France (for example) have players like Kante, Pogba, Griezmann, Dembele, Varane, Upamecano. They have multiple goalkeepers starting for top teams in the world, meanwhile the guy we expect to have moving forward is a backup for one of those same clubs. They get to choose between Mbappe, Martial, Giroud, and Ben Yedder as to who they are going to start up top, with Lacazette being pushed out of the picture... meanwhile we are still undecided over Morris, Sargent, and Jozy, and Zardes is still somehow in the conversation because of how abysmal our strikers have been... so yeah, NOTHING in ALL CAPS can be done by Berhalter or USSF to change that for our program in the next 2 years. Thats not trying to defend the coach and program... thats the absolute truth.

So, again, serious question for you to answer. Because if you answer, "no, I don't think we will win 2022" or "we should not expect to win 2022" or caveat it with a "yeah, but theres a chance and anyone can win with the American spirit"... then you agree with me... thus making my statement spot on. Please, answer that question.

I never made the claim that we are not good enough to maybe even make it to 2022. Reading comprehension, eh?

I have stated multiple times, on this thread and others, that we should (and will) make it to 2022. Many have freaked out thinking that Gregg is somehow going to prevent us from qualifying... which is ridiculous because we haven't even started qualifying. I think we are going to make it, no question, to 2022. Once there, based on who we get drawn into a group with, I think we should be capable of making it out of the group stage given we have all of our players healthy and available for selection. But if we are drawn into a group of death with Germany, and Brazil, and France, or something like that, it will take a bit of luck to squeeze out. You know... a fumbled shot by Robert Green against England, or a last minute goal against Algeria, or a last second header against Ghana and a poor performance from Portugal when they play against Ghana.

I'm not sure what point you're arguing... because this is legitimately what it takes in every WC. We have legitimately had to deal with getting a bit of luck pretty much each WC we have played in. And yes, I put that in bold, because I am right on that.

You listed off a bunch of players we have in Europe right now who are doing well. Yes, those guys are great players, and given they continue to develop, can either be among the best in the world or good enough to compete with the best in the world. Given that pretty much all of those guys are under the age of 23... in about 6 years, they should (theoretically) be in their primes. In that time, we should have a strong enough team, both in the starting 11 and bench, to be able to compete against and hopefully conquer the top teams in the world. Given that... we should have the expectation that in 2026, big things will happen.

So, another serious question for you, do you think that our team is going to be better equipped to have a strong run at the WC in 2022, or 2026? If the answer is 2026, then you agree with me and I am spot on.

Again, you're arguing for something that I'm willing to bet you agree on. And while you're claiming we need to give a shot to random Euro fringe guys who play in academies and on youth teams in countries like Spain and Germany in hope of improving our national team... Spain and Germany have entire leagues of established senior players playing in those leagues to choose from... so WE STILL in ALL CAPS are NOT ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THOSE NATIONAL TEAMS. Those are the nations vying to win a WC. We are just simply not there yet, and that again has nothing to do with our manager. USSF I'm sure could certainly do some things to help move us forward, but its something thats going to take time, and no matter of how much complaining about it on an internet forum is done over the next 2 years, that is not going to change.

Lilshmike
Post #295
Monday September 21, 2020 6:36pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,510
Original post from Kamphgruppe

Tough decision for a Coach, play the young untested guys or play the Veteran's you know and feel you can depend upon. After losing to T&T and waiting in limbo for a coach for so long GB was up against it right from the start. I don't blame him for playing vets in the beginning. However there is really no excuse for continually calling in some pretty useless guys (roldan, trapp etc.) when you have a veteran player like Green who was in form and producing. I have to side with stoked we should have played more young guys rather than a lot of these useless callups.
Totally get where as a fan it would make some sense, but the reality is that if these guys were ready, either they would be showing it for their senior club teams on a weekly basis (as some have been) or our managers/staff would be aware of it.

This isn't a FIFA video game. If the kids are there, our staff is aware. Its their job to monitor the progress of players, watch film, talk with the club teams, etc.

And when you consider how many guys we have now who are playing and making it... there really aren't many spots up for grabs. Maybe 4 tops in a pool of 23, and those 4 are currently being competed for.

I challenge anyone to come up with a 23 man list, 3 keepers, 4 forwards, 4CMs, 4 wingers, 4 CBs, 2 RBs, 2 LBs... and then see how many open spots there are. There really isn't much. The problem isn't the manager not calling in players, because those guys either have (or were going to be) called in... the problem is that we always have people injured during windows and there aren't a lot of windows to work with.

Know Nothing
Post #296
Monday September 21, 2020 7:02pm

Joined Jan 2013
Total Posts: 1,830
Original post from Lilshmike

I'm not pushing or following any line. If I was, I'd be saying let's play all of our home games against Mexico in Texas or southern California (something SUM wants). I would be talking about SUM and telling everyone it's a great idea to not have promotion/relegation in MLS and that we should model the MLS like other major American sports leagues. I'd be saying we should be calling in more MLS players. I would be wanting every good American international to come back and play in MLS. I'm not in favor of any of that crap.

I simply understand when certain things are outside of an individual's control and try to be fair to them for it. I'm not going to scapegoat a manager for... what exactly? We haven't even started WC qualifying, and so far he has managed us in line with realistic expectations given the talent level of our player pool and the players we've had available when there have been windows.


I just call it like I see it. I will let you get back to carefully framing your next argument. Stay hydrated!

Lilshmike
Post #297
Monday September 21, 2020 7:33pm

Joined Oct 2012
Total Posts: 1,510
Original post from Know Nothing

I just call it like I see it. I will let you get back to carefully framing your next argument. Stay hydrated!
Easy to do that when you have kept the same stance and stay consistent in your logic.

EKneezy
Atlanta
Post #298
Monday September 21, 2020 8:09pm

Joined May 2013
Total Posts: 3,355
Didn't see the game but all reports and Twitter follows says Tyler was good. Glad to see Leipzig start off well.

Otherwise was very encouraged by ESPN having Bundesliga coverage. Nice and tidy on the app and they didn't add any new announcers.

hamsamwich
Post #299
Monday September 21, 2020 11:00pm

Joined Oct 2013
Total Posts: 3,454
@kampgruppe- my problem is those vets looked disorganized and confused after a year with Gregg. That's he doesn't get his message from his mind to the players actions.

@lilshmike- it's very disingenuous to say since we aren't good enough anyway what's the point in all the fuss. If we aren't good enough anyway then why would doing something different be a problem.??? It seems like since we can't win the World Cup why try and be better then we currently are and be the best we can be? That's all anyone wants.

It does make a difference however that the coach is a system guy. So he's gonna pick based off of his system. And that's his prerogative. But if the best players don't fit the system we must play inferior players. Instead of a coach who molds what he does to the talent. If Gregg puts Tyler in his rightful spot as the CDM, then in my opinion he's making a concession. And he doesn't believe in it. In truth we may as well have another coach who believes in the players skill sets, not how they fit into a complicated system. That's been my consistent opinion all along. That's why it's a bad fit and why we could/should have tried other options. We settled without needing to.

Kamphgruppe
Michigan
Post #300
Monday September 21, 2020 11:26pm

Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts: 1,062
Original post from hamsamwich

@kampgruppe- my problem is those vets looked disorganized and confused after a year with Gregg. That's he doesn't get his message from his mind to the players actions.


Not sure that disorganized and confused is the right but I am certainly not confident with the team for sure. I just said with the situation being what it was I don't blame him for calling in vets early. The problem has been compounded by all the injuries to key players like Adams, Weah, etc. That being said I still don't get some of the guys that continue to get call ups (roldan trapp etc.) I was against hiring GB from the start. Now that he is the Coach I do believe he deserves his full cycle. I can't help but wonder what could have been if we had chosen a more seasoned proven coach.

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Pellegrino Matarazzo and VfB Stuttgart got their Bundesliga campaign off the ground on Saturday with a win over Mainz.
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